Well Scott,
I saw in a recent thread that you are still wating on A 206ES-R BIB.My drivers are at your command allthough I'm not sure how well they will work in my tiny mobile home.I've had them for A week now still trying to decide on the Fostex recomended or the Sachiko.Because I can only bring whatever I build out from the front wall maybe 2ft and my lack of skills,the BIB would be A good start.
As you can see in the picture,there is an over hang along the wall that comes out 6.75 in.81.75 from floor to the over hang.I have 83.5 in. from floor to cieling in the left and 8' in the center and 90" on the right.Total room is 13' x 24'.The other half is kitcken area.
Maybe they can be scaled down to work with the cieling hieght?Like I said,my drivers are at your command but I still now nothing about figuring out the dimentons,BSC or notch filters
And will need plenty of help.
What I have for amps are A 2A3/45 and A Fisher 500C to work with.I'll do this just for you because I now how bad you want them built
Doug
I saw in a recent thread that you are still wating on A 206ES-R BIB.My drivers are at your command allthough I'm not sure how well they will work in my tiny mobile home.I've had them for A week now still trying to decide on the Fostex recomended or the Sachiko.Because I can only bring whatever I build out from the front wall maybe 2ft and my lack of skills,the BIB would be A good start.
As you can see in the picture,there is an over hang along the wall that comes out 6.75 in.81.75 from floor to the over hang.I have 83.5 in. from floor to cieling in the left and 8' in the center and 90" on the right.Total room is 13' x 24'.The other half is kitcken area.
Maybe they can be scaled down to work with the cieling hieght?Like I said,my drivers are at your command but I still now nothing about figuring out the dimentons,BSC or notch filters
And will need plenty of help.What I have for amps are A 2A3/45 and A Fisher 500C to work with.I'll do this just for you because I now how bad you want them built
Doug
That was my first choice.I'm glad you like them.I could build them and use them in my basement listening area wich is 13x54.I would be curious to now the final stuffing option after extensive break in though.Ooops,we are on the wrong post for this.
I guess I can't expect optimal performance in this small space no matter what I build.
I guess I can't expect optimal performance in this small space no matter what I build.
There are all kinds of thoughts on break in. some see no need for it at all. I'm glad I did the process.
To do it it helps to have some space remoced from anyone's hearing and a sound source that can play white noise from an unused frequency on a receiver.
The method is to bolt the 2 uniots face to face and have one in phase
connection and the other out of phase. the test for this is
to take the two wires from the speaker and put them on the positive and negative poles of a small battery (AA usually does fine,) An in phase connection will show the cone moving outward. an out of phase connection will show the cone moving inward. With that all hooked up
you turn on the audio source with the speaks placed in a soundproof box.
Others will correct me if I've left anything out.
Wait a couple days or pose a fresh question to make sure.
That's what I did from advice here in the forum. When I was working long shifts, I'd fire up the noise and leave. Then shut it off
when I got back. I had an A/B switch going and so could switch onto music when I wanted. I did this for a couple of weeks to emulate a couple hundred hours of hard use.
Since then I've seen how test tones work and you possibly could run a simpler setup by running one low tone that is inaudible but
has the cone going like 60. (MPH or Hz, not sure which.)
To do it it helps to have some space remoced from anyone's hearing and a sound source that can play white noise from an unused frequency on a receiver.
The method is to bolt the 2 uniots face to face and have one in phase
connection and the other out of phase. the test for this is
to take the two wires from the speaker and put them on the positive and negative poles of a small battery (AA usually does fine,) An in phase connection will show the cone moving outward. an out of phase connection will show the cone moving inward. With that all hooked up
you turn on the audio source with the speaks placed in a soundproof box.
Others will correct me if I've left anything out.
Wait a couple days or pose a fresh question to make sure.
That's what I did from advice here in the forum. When I was working long shifts, I'd fire up the noise and leave. Then shut it off
when I got back. I had an A/B switch going and so could switch onto music when I wanted. I did this for a couple of weeks to emulate a couple hundred hours of hard use.
Since then I've seen how test tones work and you possibly could run a simpler setup by running one low tone that is inaudible but
has the cone going like 60. (MPH or Hz, not sure which.)
OK, so I have read ALL 4K plus posts.
I'm convinced already that these are an interesting idea.
They MUST do something right, otherwise, why would so many spend so much virtual ink on them.
Bethatasitmay, I like the " sound " of the old Altec Mod #19's.
However, they don't fit the decor of my wifes livingroom.
I think I can make a case for the columnar-in-the-corner-look of the " BIB's"
Now to the nuts, or the nut ( me ), I'm thinking along the lines of a WTW alignment using say 2x 6.5" woofer, crossed at say 5k, to a bullet type horn tweeter.
Now correct anything that's wrong here, as I am a noob, and prone to engaging my finger's, before starting my brain.
As to the BIB design sheets: for the gross cabinet size, sum the Vas, and Sd of the woofer's, and use the Qts as published ( or tested ). Therefore when I select the drivers the smaller the individual Vas, and the higher the tuning, the smaller the CSA of the cabinet. and the shorter the O/A height, conversly they will not play as low as if I chose a larger lower Fs woofer. I can tune the enclosure lower than the Fs of the driver, but may have to stuff to compensate and loose efficiency.
Am I off base on any of this so far?
This may end up no more than a thought excercise, but I am trying to design something that will perform in a manner to make me happy, and maintain domestic tranquility.
Questions, or comments apreciated.
John
I'm convinced already that these are an interesting idea.
They MUST do something right, otherwise, why would so many spend so much virtual ink on them.
Bethatasitmay, I like the " sound " of the old Altec Mod #19's.
However, they don't fit the decor of my wifes livingroom.
I think I can make a case for the columnar-in-the-corner-look of the " BIB's"
Now to the nuts, or the nut ( me ), I'm thinking along the lines of a WTW alignment using say 2x 6.5" woofer, crossed at say 5k, to a bullet type horn tweeter.
Now correct anything that's wrong here, as I am a noob, and prone to engaging my finger's, before starting my brain.
As to the BIB design sheets: for the gross cabinet size, sum the Vas, and Sd of the woofer's, and use the Qts as published ( or tested ). Therefore when I select the drivers the smaller the individual Vas, and the higher the tuning, the smaller the CSA of the cabinet. and the shorter the O/A height, conversly they will not play as low as if I chose a larger lower Fs woofer. I can tune the enclosure lower than the Fs of the driver, but may have to stuff to compensate and loose efficiency.
Am I off base on any of this so far?
This may end up no more than a thought excercise, but I am trying to design something that will perform in a manner to make me happy, and maintain domestic tranquility.
Questions, or comments apreciated.
John
How about a columnar-in-the-corner M19 variant?
Anyway, it's not a good idea to have a c-t-c spacing > 1 WL of the XO point, or ~13560"/5000 Hz = ~2.7", so you're already in trouble since even with the woofers butted up against each other with the tweeter in the lee between them will be much further away than this.
The rest is mostly right, though for a given line length it's going to have ~the same tuning even if loaded with a low Fs driver and the stuffing and/or lining is about limiting the amount of mids 'leaking' out the mouth regardless of tuning.
GM
Anyway, it's not a good idea to have a c-t-c spacing > 1 WL of the XO point, or ~13560"/5000 Hz = ~2.7", so you're already in trouble since even with the woofers butted up against each other with the tweeter in the lee between them will be much further away than this.
The rest is mostly right, though for a given line length it's going to have ~the same tuning even if loaded with a low Fs driver and the stuffing and/or lining is about limiting the amount of mids 'leaking' out the mouth regardless of tuning.
GM
'Lo there
I've been reading this thread back and forth and decided to give BiBs a try.
I made one pair with Hi-vi B3n (WxDxH 120x190x1170mm) The soundstage that they create is... well Big, bigger than you would expect from 3inchers. With 3mm Xmax they fill 4,5m x 7m room with solid, non booming bass. On the downside, B3n can't play highs very well, the sound is kind of metallic.
My next proto is based on my preciouss FE206, but what comes for the dimension, I changed the line lenght similar to B3n BiB. Dimension are 310x470x1100mm. In other words I didn't tune it 1octave lower than I did with B3ns. But it still works, it works really well. Even though I built only one piece, it rocks the house.
So, now we get to my question. What you guys think about, a BiB for FE206 with WxDxH of 280x515x1103? The width depth ratio is some what the same as in my previous proto and the line lenght 220cm is based purely on driver Fs. Over 2m tall BiB is not that attractive...
Here's a pic of my "beauties"
I've been reading this thread back and forth and decided to give BiBs a try.
I made one pair with Hi-vi B3n (WxDxH 120x190x1170mm) The soundstage that they create is... well Big, bigger than you would expect from 3inchers. With 3mm Xmax they fill 4,5m x 7m room with solid, non booming bass. On the downside, B3n can't play highs very well, the sound is kind of metallic.
My next proto is based on my preciouss FE206, but what comes for the dimension, I changed the line lenght similar to B3n BiB. Dimension are 310x470x1100mm. In other words I didn't tune it 1octave lower than I did with B3ns. But it still works, it works really well. Even though I built only one piece, it rocks the house.
So, now we get to my question. What you guys think about, a BiB for FE206 with WxDxH of 280x515x1103? The width depth ratio is some what the same as in my previous proto and the line lenght 220cm is based purely on driver Fs. Over 2m tall BiB is not that attractive...
Here's a pic of my "beauties"
Attachments
GM, Thanks for your reply.
How about a columnar-in-the-corner M19 variant?
This would be rather difficult to achieve, what with a 15" woofer, and the horn. love the sound, hate the squatty look, go figure...
If I understood you correctly, I would have to lower the X-over to ~2k even to achieve only 6.78" of C-T-C spacing. This is of course lower than the tweeters I had in mind can go, so back to the drawing board, and Thanks for the advice.
I have little understanding regarding the use of multiple drivers. My reasoning was to gain efficiency by use of Two woofers, which would have allowed me to simplify the crossover. I had planned to use an L pad to attenuate the difference between woofer, and tweeter. I see a large number of designs incorporating such an alignment, is there any available weblink that might illustrate the proper uses of an WTW alignment, or a paper available that a non-mathematical type could parse? I've seen others refer to "comb filtering" and "lobing (?)" as drawbacks to the WTW alignment. Would a different alignment make a difference.
Any nudge toward enlightenment would certainly be apreciated.
John
How about a columnar-in-the-corner M19 variant?
This would be rather difficult to achieve, what with a 15" woofer, and the horn. love the sound, hate the squatty look, go figure...
If I understood you correctly, I would have to lower the X-over to ~2k even to achieve only 6.78" of C-T-C spacing. This is of course lower than the tweeters I had in mind can go, so back to the drawing board, and Thanks for the advice.
I have little understanding regarding the use of multiple drivers. My reasoning was to gain efficiency by use of Two woofers, which would have allowed me to simplify the crossover. I had planned to use an L pad to attenuate the difference between woofer, and tweeter. I see a large number of designs incorporating such an alignment, is there any available weblink that might illustrate the proper uses of an WTW alignment, or a paper available that a non-mathematical type could parse? I've seen others refer to "comb filtering" and "lobing (?)" as drawbacks to the WTW alignment. Would a different alignment make a difference.
Any nudge toward enlightenment would certainly be apreciated.
John
I'm not Greg, but Jim Griffin's line array paper is a decent start -see the http://www.audioroundtable.com/misc/nflawp.pdf See p.11 onwards.
Gotta keep the BIB thread going
Over the past weeks I've not been using the BIB pennant. Nothing much has changed in setup but the pennant is in storage for now.
First use of the pennant was before I redid the baffle front as a flush mount.
If I were to gird my loins for a speaker tweak what is recommended as a first noob job?
At this point I am convinced that while cone treatments are not reversible at least they don't do a lot of harm.
What is needed is a phase plug mod that doesn't involve cutting the dust cap and hoping that there'll be no friction contact with the phase plug shaft.
Still looking for that cone-shaped piece of molded plastic which could be used over the dust cap as a substitute that would not involve special milling and cutting.
In the meantime, I know where to buy Damar varnish at the Hobby Lobby in US. But EnAbling gets done in which step of the modification?
Over the past weeks I've not been using the BIB pennant. Nothing much has changed in setup but the pennant is in storage for now.
First use of the pennant was before I redid the baffle front as a flush mount.
If I were to gird my loins for a speaker tweak what is recommended as a first noob job?
At this point I am convinced that while cone treatments are not reversible at least they don't do a lot of harm.
What is needed is a phase plug mod that doesn't involve cutting the dust cap and hoping that there'll be no friction contact with the phase plug shaft.
Still looking for that cone-shaped piece of molded plastic which could be used over the dust cap as a substitute that would not involve special milling and cutting.
In the meantime, I know where to buy Damar varnish at the Hobby Lobby in US. But EnAbling gets done in which step of the modification?