Anyway, give it a try, it looks as good as the BiB sims except tuned higher due to its higher Fs. The sim is solid to ~55 Hz, so in-room should make it into the 40s easy if the specs are reasonably accurate:
L = 84.5"
open end = 55"^2
driver down 36" from pointy end
Due to its length, leaving it straight with the pointy end on the floor and fabbing a stand to support it is probably best.
GM
--
You can't fold that tall boy?
If it's closer to 60" does it sim worth a damn?
Thanks,
Godzilla
L = 84.5"
open end = 55"^2
driver down 36" from pointy end
Due to its length, leaving it straight with the pointy end on the floor and fabbing a stand to support it is probably best.
GM
--
You can't fold that tall boy?
If it's closer to 60" does it sim worth a damn?
Thanks,
Godzilla
Jeff, I'll get the first batch of re-jigged dims to you later today.
In the meantime, as per requests of a week or so back (before my PC died on me and I got innundated with lectures to write), I'll post some response graphs. Logic dictates beginning with TC's original enclosure, which will give a reference point. Its basic dimensions are 138" total line length (cheers Greg). Driver 30" down from So. Sm=55in^2.
Remember that the response will be much flatter than is shown here though -this is a 1/2 space sim, not a 1/8 space, so ripple for example is massively over-estimated. Just consider it a view of the general curve. All of the simulations have a stuffing density set to 0.0001lbs ft^3 BTW, so again, the light stuffing actually employed will help damp some of the resonances not flattened by the room.
In the meantime, as per requests of a week or so back (before my PC died on me and I got innundated with lectures to write), I'll post some response graphs. Logic dictates beginning with TC's original enclosure, which will give a reference point. Its basic dimensions are 138" total line length (cheers Greg). Driver 30" down from So. Sm=55in^2.
Remember that the response will be much flatter than is shown here though -this is a 1/2 space sim, not a 1/8 space, so ripple for example is massively over-estimated. Just consider it a view of the general curve. All of the simulations have a stuffing density set to 0.0001lbs ft^3 BTW, so again, the light stuffing actually employed will help damp some of the resonances not flattened by the room.
Attachments
Thanks for posting those. I looked at them closely. Although I can tell that they are not identical, I can't see alot of difference. But then again, I don't really know how to correlate/compare the two.
I would love to here anyone's ideas regarding these response graphs. It seems to me that the idea of the B20 BIB is not really expected to work out well just judging by the lack of positive comments. I am leaning towards building some sealed boxes for my B20's and maybe waiting and buying different drivers for the BIB.
Andy
I would love to here anyone's ideas regarding these response graphs. It seems to me that the idea of the B20 BIB is not really expected to work out well just judging by the lack of positive comments. I am leaning towards building some sealed boxes for my B20's and maybe waiting and buying different drivers for the BIB.
Andy
You're welcome.
That might also have something to do with no-one (to the best of my knowledge) having built them. I don't see any reason why they shouldn't work. I'd prefer a smaller pair (everything being relative) with higher quality drive-units, but for the price they should do fine. At a similar price, the Monacor 5" units should be a good substitute for the 1354 -they've a good reputation, and would need a smaller cab.
Cheers
Scott
That might also have something to do with no-one (to the best of my knowledge) having built them. I don't see any reason why they shouldn't work. I'd prefer a smaller pair (everything being relative) with higher quality drive-units, but for the price they should do fine. At a similar price, the Monacor 5" units should be a good substitute for the 1354 -they've a good reputation, and would need a smaller cab.
Cheers
Scott
hello all, i've read through this whole post 2 times and i still can't figure out how to tell if a driver will do well in the BIB enclosure.
1) i was wondering if the fe108e sigma would work in this enclosure or if a buschhorn would be a much better option.
2) also, i've got a pair of beyma 8ag/n drivers awaiting a "viech" enclosure and was wondering if these would do well in a BIB. the specs from spectrum audio are:
Nennimpedanz/Gleichstromwiderstand: 8/7,1 Ohm
Resonanzfrequenz: 105 Hz
Gütefaktoren(Qms/Qes/Qts): 4,13 / 1,6 / 1,15
Äquivalenzvolumen(Vas): 11 Liter
Effektive Membranfläche(Sd): 220 cm²
Antriebsfaktor(BL): 6,4 Tm
Schwingspulenüberhang(Xmax): 2,0 mm
from beyma:
http://www.beyma.de/seiten/beymatable/pdf/8AGNC.pdf
thanks for any help!
1) i was wondering if the fe108e sigma would work in this enclosure or if a buschhorn would be a much better option.
2) also, i've got a pair of beyma 8ag/n drivers awaiting a "viech" enclosure and was wondering if these would do well in a BIB. the specs from spectrum audio are:
Nennimpedanz/Gleichstromwiderstand: 8/7,1 Ohm
Resonanzfrequenz: 105 Hz
Gütefaktoren(Qms/Qes/Qts): 4,13 / 1,6 / 1,15
Äquivalenzvolumen(Vas): 11 Liter
Effektive Membranfläche(Sd): 220 cm²
Antriebsfaktor(BL): 6,4 Tm
Schwingspulenüberhang(Xmax): 2,0 mm
from beyma:
http://www.beyma.de/seiten/beymatable/pdf/8AGNC.pdf
thanks for any help!
Scottmoose said:
I've been lurking on this thread thinking to build a prototype with some 108EZ's I happen to have already. But now I'm confused.
I don't know how to interpret a mouth area in cubic inches. How far down do you measure? What would be the dimensions of the footprint? And how high would the inner baffle be from the bottom?
If I'm interpreting these numbers right, with the fold, the cab would only be 44-45 in high, and the driver would only be 27 in off the floor. The top would be too far from the ceiling to get optimal room gain.
So now I'm wondering whether it's worth it. You could put the whole thing on a stand, but then the driver would be too high off the floor. Why not then just build a tapered half wave TL instead (unfolding the whole thing), with the mouth facing down and coupling with the floor instead of the ceiling?
Randy
Sorry Randy -typo on my part. It should have read square inches.
You don't have to fold it -you could just have a tall, straight column. Remember too that it's also the rear boundary conditions that do much of the work, not the ceiling per se alone, so the folded one will still work. Not quite as effective as the tall jobbies, or an unfolded version, but the 1/2 space sim doesn't look terrible. Shoved against a rear wall or in corners, it should work pretty well. The inner baffle terminates in the centre of the cabinet, the same distance from the floor as from the front and rear baffle inner-walls. I purposfully left that out as people might want to experiment with different width / depth dimensions (keeping the mouth area the same). Try, say, 4.5in wide x 7.5in deep internal for Sm.
Best
Scott
You don't have to fold it -you could just have a tall, straight column. Remember too that it's also the rear boundary conditions that do much of the work, not the ceiling per se alone, so the folded one will still work. Not quite as effective as the tall jobbies, or an unfolded version, but the 1/2 space sim doesn't look terrible. Shoved against a rear wall or in corners, it should work pretty well. The inner baffle terminates in the centre of the cabinet, the same distance from the floor as from the front and rear baffle inner-walls. I purposfully left that out as people might want to experiment with different width / depth dimensions (keeping the mouth area the same). Try, say, 4.5in wide x 7.5in deep internal for Sm.
Best
Scott
the fx 120.
the cabinets i made are using the design reccommended by scottmoose. it was for 50 inch height, 7 inch width, 5.5 internal baffle 39 inch driver height. I will be giving these to a freind for parts cost.
they are freakin amazing. there is no lack in low frequency. perhaps even too much of almost all low frequencies, but considering that it is horn bass, this is never a bad thing... there is a little trough somewhere around 100 hz as predicted. i don't really care though. disadvantages? well, they need alot of power. they usually give my PP el84 amp a run for its money.
i have a pair of 166 es-rs that i am thinking of building a cabinet in this style for. i wonder if it is reccomended to build the cabinet of same dimentions as for 168 eZ or 168 es???
the measurements posted on zilla speak.com?
well, there will be pictures posted soon.
thanks a ton y'all, and especially to terry.
Clark
the cabinets i made are using the design reccommended by scottmoose. it was for 50 inch height, 7 inch width, 5.5 internal baffle 39 inch driver height. I will be giving these to a freind for parts cost.
they are freakin amazing. there is no lack in low frequency. perhaps even too much of almost all low frequencies, but considering that it is horn bass, this is never a bad thing... there is a little trough somewhere around 100 hz as predicted. i don't really care though. disadvantages? well, they need alot of power. they usually give my PP el84 amp a run for its money.
i have a pair of 166 es-rs that i am thinking of building a cabinet in this style for. i wonder if it is reccomended to build the cabinet of same dimentions as for 168 eZ or 168 es???
the measurements posted on zilla speak.com?
well, there will be pictures posted soon.
thanks a ton y'all, and especially to terry.
Clark
fe108e sigma
scott -- thanks for running those numbers!
randy -- have you decided what you will do?
with the compromise in height (in the folded) how would the fe108e in BIB compete with the buschhorns using the same drivers? it will not be possible for me to build the unfolded version and i have never heard a full range speaker so it is hard for me to imagine how any of them sound.
alternatively, would another 4", the fe103 for example, sound better in the BIB?
and as for the beymas, will they also need a short line length? they will be going in an open baffle today or tomorrow but i don't expect there will be much or any bass for that matter.
cheers!
larry
scott -- thanks for running those numbers!
randy -- have you decided what you will do?
with the compromise in height (in the folded) how would the fe108e in BIB compete with the buschhorns using the same drivers? it will not be possible for me to build the unfolded version and i have never heard a full range speaker so it is hard for me to imagine how any of them sound.
alternatively, would another 4", the fe103 for example, sound better in the BIB?
and as for the beymas, will they also need a short line length? they will be going in an open baffle today or tomorrow but i don't expect there will be much or any bass for that matter.
cheers!
larry
Hi all!
Scott has generously provided sims and dims for several drivers requested (103/107, 108, 126/127, 166, 167, 168, etc… I will post them on the site before week end.
Right now I am still trying to depict a proper graphic showing the basic build/shape of a BIB cabinet. Have a look… tho I understand some clarification is needed. I will fix soon.
http://www.zillaspeak.com/BIB.asp
All current dims are NOT correct at this time. Please be patient and I will have them up so everyone can build a proper BIB. I am curious to build a pair to hear how it handles the bass frequencies…
Godzilla
Scott has generously provided sims and dims for several drivers requested (103/107, 108, 126/127, 166, 167, 168, etc… I will post them on the site before week end.
Right now I am still trying to depict a proper graphic showing the basic build/shape of a BIB cabinet. Have a look… tho I understand some clarification is needed. I will fix soon.
http://www.zillaspeak.com/BIB.asp
All current dims are NOT correct at this time. Please be patient and I will have them up so everyone can build a proper BIB. I am curious to build a pair to hear how it handles the bass frequencies…
Godzilla
Hi
I once made this little photoshop drawing to get a better idea of the dimensions for the Hemp 8 BIB...
Quite an impressive box, isn't it!
Zilla, if you like it feel free to use it for your BIB page - 's all I can donate as I decided against building it...
LC
I once made this little photoshop drawing to get a better idea of the dimensions for the Hemp 8 BIB...
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Quite an impressive box, isn't it!
Zilla, if you like it feel free to use it for your BIB page - 's all I can donate as I decided against building it...
LC
I'm back to the idea of putting the 108ES into a BIB. The alternative is the Fostex recommended BLH, which seems like a lot more work and is less adventurous.
If I unfolded it, as a half-wave TL, the driver would be too far off the floor. Folded, of course, the driver is too low, but I could build the cab a foot and a half deeper and fill the bottom compartment with sand (or a subwoofer).
Zilla, great page with very clear graphics! One small suggestion: if you located the driver vertically with the measurement to the bottom (instead of the top of the cab), then we wouldn't have to do the head math to see how far the driver is from the floor (usually a more critical measurement in the design).
lovechild, is that Courbousier's six-foot tall Englishman waving at us?
Randy
If I unfolded it, as a half-wave TL, the driver would be too far off the floor. Folded, of course, the driver is too low, but I could build the cab a foot and a half deeper and fill the bottom compartment with sand (or a subwoofer).
Zilla, great page with very clear graphics! One small suggestion: if you located the driver vertically with the measurement to the bottom (instead of the top of the cab), then we wouldn't have to do the head math to see how far the driver is from the floor (usually a more critical measurement in the design).
lovechild, is that Courbousier's six-foot tall Englishman waving at us?
Randy