Evaluation
I would definitely be up for an evaluation session.
Regarding enclosure design, I suggest building enclosures based on the actual measured specs and not on the published specs. I've no doubt that a number of good bass solutions are possible. Enclosures producing deeper bass and truly full range performance will be larger than more compromised designs. They will fall within the size range of existing 8-inch FR designs.
I am more concerned about the rest of the range and the overall balance of the sound. Will there be adequate midband and HF resolution? Adequate HF extension?What will be the sonic impact of the inevitable response peaks and dips - exagerated sibilance, lack of presence, lack of air, whizzer shout etc? Will voices have adequate body and presence?
This is a new product area for TB. They have previously concentrated on wide band drivers in the 3-4 inch range. It appears that they have 'pulled out all the stops' to make their first 'large' full range drivers a success.
Bob P.
I would definitely be up for an evaluation session.
Regarding enclosure design, I suggest building enclosures based on the actual measured specs and not on the published specs. I've no doubt that a number of good bass solutions are possible. Enclosures producing deeper bass and truly full range performance will be larger than more compromised designs. They will fall within the size range of existing 8-inch FR designs.
I am more concerned about the rest of the range and the overall balance of the sound. Will there be adequate midband and HF resolution? Adequate HF extension?What will be the sonic impact of the inevitable response peaks and dips - exagerated sibilance, lack of presence, lack of air, whizzer shout etc? Will voices have adequate body and presence?
This is a new product area for TB. They have previously concentrated on wide band drivers in the 3-4 inch range. It appears that they have 'pulled out all the stops' to make their first 'large' full range drivers a success.
Bob P.
linesource ,^like the Seas exotic drivers? www.madisound.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=45_228_257&products_id=8536 i've yet to read of anyone doing anything with the exotic W8 X2-08, the hf rise on axis and early lf roll off/low qts makes it look more like a wb mid. i'd think as a 2way it'll need a big TL for usable lf resp. ? and getting back to your idea, whats the point when you could do a minimal xover with a Seas A26RE4 (H1411) classic 10" paper cone woofer ? www.madisound.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=8638
More on the TB 8-inch FR's
I did a Google search (W8-1772) and came up with a German site, HiFi Forum (http://www.hifi-forum.de/viewthread-104-16868.html), that had a fairly long thread on these drivers. The Google translation is marginally useful, but the frequency response graphs and actual measured T/S parameters are very interesting (Qts=0.38). The T/S parameters are the same as those on the Blue Planet Acoustic website (http://www.oaudio.de/Lautsprecher-Chassis/Tang-Band/Breitbaender/W8-1772::664.html). There is some discussion of the overall sound quality, but the translation falls far short of conveying what was actually said. Perhaps someone here with good German language skills can help out.
Regards,
Bob
I did a Google search (W8-1772) and came up with a German site, HiFi Forum (http://www.hifi-forum.de/viewthread-104-16868.html), that had a fairly long thread on these drivers. The Google translation is marginally useful, but the frequency response graphs and actual measured T/S parameters are very interesting (Qts=0.38). The T/S parameters are the same as those on the Blue Planet Acoustic website (http://www.oaudio.de/Lautsprecher-Chassis/Tang-Band/Breitbaender/W8-1772::664.html). There is some discussion of the overall sound quality, but the translation falls far short of conveying what was actually said. Perhaps someone here with good German language skills can help out.
Regards,
Bob
As i wrote in this thread as well i can summarize it for you.
The user "Holzhorn" had bought these drivers and built them into a bass reflex type of encosure, into a jericho horn and some other kind of enclosure which i'm not able to translate.
All in all he wasn't satisfied with these drivers as he had a 10 db gap between lf and midrange/highs even with a bsc-correction.
He finally built some of hm's sats with a subwoofer for low frequencies.
Cathul: Translation Needed
I see that you were indeed a participant in that discussion. Could you help out with a couple of questions?
On Page 1 of the discussion, Schrlauthorer posts T/S parameters different from the published TB specifications, and they are the same as are posted on the Blue Planet Acoustic website. Where did they come from? Are these from actual measurements of drivers?
On Page 1 of the discussion, Holzhorn (28 July 09') posts a frequency response graph showing the bass shelved down by several db. Is that the 1772 driver and what enclosure is it in?
On Page 2 of the discussion Schrottie (29 July 09') posts 2 frequency response graphs and an enclosure design featuring a strongly tapered reflex port (horn/reflex). The graphs reflect which drivers and enclosures?
On Page 2 of the discussion, Sehrlauthorer (29 July 09') posts 2 frequency response graphs. These reflect which drivers and enclosures?
Was Holzhorn the only person in the discussion to actually try out the TB 1772 drivers?
Was there any discussion comparing the TB driver to other drivers (Fostex, etc.)?
Thanks very much for your help,
Bob
I see that you were indeed a participant in that discussion. Could you help out with a couple of questions?
On Page 1 of the discussion, Schrlauthorer posts T/S parameters different from the published TB specifications, and they are the same as are posted on the Blue Planet Acoustic website. Where did they come from? Are these from actual measurements of drivers?
On Page 1 of the discussion, Holzhorn (28 July 09') posts a frequency response graph showing the bass shelved down by several db. Is that the 1772 driver and what enclosure is it in?
On Page 2 of the discussion Schrottie (29 July 09') posts 2 frequency response graphs and an enclosure design featuring a strongly tapered reflex port (horn/reflex). The graphs reflect which drivers and enclosures?
On Page 2 of the discussion, Sehrlauthorer (29 July 09') posts 2 frequency response graphs. These reflect which drivers and enclosures?
Was Holzhorn the only person in the discussion to actually try out the TB 1772 drivers?
Was there any discussion comparing the TB driver to other drivers (Fostex, etc.)?
Thanks very much for your help,
Bob
I have a pair of W8-1772's on order. I should have them next week. I'll report T/S numbers as soon as possible. Modeling of the published specs indicate that the 1772 will drop into my FT-2000 cabinet designed for the FE207E. I can then compare the 1772, FE207E and Lowther DX3. THAT report may take a while.
Bob
Bob
Yes, these are actual measurements from blue planet audio.
Yes, it's the 1772 driver in a 80 litre bass reflex enclosure.
Ciare in Jericho 08.
The enclosure is a drawing for the hornreflex simulation for the 1772.
IKE with Fostex 206E.
Yes.
I cannot remember tbh. And i'm too lazy to read the whole thread again.
Yours,
Cathul
I've done some measuring of the W8-1772, and my T/S numbers are a bit different from those published but then I'm not confident that my measurement technique is suited for this type of driver; Bob has much more experience with ultralight cone, high compliance drivers so his numbers will be more reliable than mine.
As for frequency response, in general the on-axis curve looks pretty close to the published curve - whose scale is so compressed that it can be misleading, but I didn't find any really big hidden "surprises" like one sometimes does (cough cough Fostex cough). I did find an emphasis between 3 and 4 kHz where the factory curve shows a dip; that was the main discrepancy. In my opinion the off-axis curves matter a lot more, and what impresses me about this driver is that the power response (weighted summed response out to 90 degrees) is remarkably good. In my opinion some filtering is still called for, but others might well conclude that no filtering is needed.
Duke
As for frequency response, in general the on-axis curve looks pretty close to the published curve - whose scale is so compressed that it can be misleading, but I didn't find any really big hidden "surprises" like one sometimes does (cough cough Fostex cough). I did find an emphasis between 3 and 4 kHz where the factory curve shows a dip; that was the main discrepancy. In my opinion the off-axis curves matter a lot more, and what impresses me about this driver is that the power response (weighted summed response out to 90 degrees) is remarkably good. In my opinion some filtering is still called for, but others might well conclude that no filtering is needed.
Duke
Duke,
Thanks for your input on the Tang Band W8-1772 full range driver.
Are your T/S measurements similar to those measured by Blue Planet Acoustic ?
Fs 43,41
Vas 90,39
Re 7,5 Ohm
Qms 1,49
Qes 0,52
Qts 0,38
Sd 211 qcm
R 1kHz 8,9 Ohm
R 10kHz 9,4 Ohm
SPL 93,54
Your comment on the published frequency response graph and the prominence in the 3-4k Hz range is especially interesting. Does this just highlight presence and sibilance, or is it truly excessive? If I read between the lines, you seem to be suggesting that it is borderline: so that some people may be choose to live with it while others may wish to 'correct' it.
Regards,
Bob
Thanks for your input on the Tang Band W8-1772 full range driver.
Are your T/S measurements similar to those measured by Blue Planet Acoustic ?
Fs 43,41
Vas 90,39
Re 7,5 Ohm
Qms 1,49
Qes 0,52
Qts 0,38
Sd 211 qcm
R 1kHz 8,9 Ohm
R 10kHz 9,4 Ohm
SPL 93,54
Your comment on the published frequency response graph and the prominence in the 3-4k Hz range is especially interesting. Does this just highlight presence and sibilance, or is it truly excessive? If I read between the lines, you seem to be suggesting that it is borderline: so that some people may be choose to live with it while others may wish to 'correct' it.
Regards,
Bob
Hi Bob/Astrosonic,
I can't find my T/S printout at the moment but do remember the Qes being a bit higher than the factory spec sheet.
The bump between 3-4 kHz isn't big, maybe 2-3 dB. It's not the only bump of course, but it's the only place where I saw a really noticeable discrepancy between my on-axis measurement and the published curve.
I can't find my T/S printout at the moment but do remember the Qes being a bit higher than the factory spec sheet.
The bump between 3-4 kHz isn't big, maybe 2-3 dB. It's not the only bump of course, but it's the only place where I saw a really noticeable discrepancy between my on-axis measurement and the published curve.
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