Tang Band W8-1772 Impressions.

[superlian]

I have made OBs with 1808:

http://www.hifisentralen.no/forum/index.php/topic,58924.220.html

They are very good sounding indeed but lacks dynamic compared with my Fostex Fe203en-s (ltd edition). The advantage with 1808 is that they will sound good with cheeper amps. If i should be very very critical i think they sound a little bit muddy in the midrange. However the treble is wonderful.

 

[DBMandrake]

Go for it. Snag some 1808's. Plenty smooth in the midrange and flexible. (open baffle, bass reflex, mltl)
The 1808 is incredibly revealing of micro detail in recordings. Even more so than some of the smaller Fostex drivers I own, which is surprising, being an 8 inch driver.

I think I will go with the 1808. It should be able to fill all the roles I listed (as do my current Coral drivers) allowing for plenty of experimentation with different designs.

I'm not surprised the detail resolution is good - from what I can see the whizzer cone design is very well done giving both a very extended top end with quite decent off axis performance in the high treble for a large driver but at the same time a very smooth upper midrange.

Bobs measurements show just how much flatter they are in the 2-5Khz region compared to the FE206E for example, and flatness in that region is absolutely critical to me, and the main reason why I just couldn't stomach the FE206E/FE207E - that 2.5Khz resonance is so severe that it almost makes my ears bleed...

My own measurements and testing with the FE207E a few years ago showed conclusively that this major (~6dB) 2.5Khz resonance is entirely down to bad whizzer cone design, and largely because its a conical whizzer cone.

The Coral Flat 8 series have a largish well designed curvilinear whizzer cone and are much much flatter through this region, and it looks like the 1772/1808 have a similarly well designed curvilinear whizzer, and are perhaps even flatter again, so they could be just what I'm looking for.

PS can anyone suggest a good place to order them in the UK ? Or will places like parts express ship to the UK without exorbitant charges ? (And without risk of paying excessive import duty...)

 

[cervelorider]

1808 Video

A quick video I shot with my iPhone 4s today. For what's it's worth.

Fleawatt DIY Tang Bang 1808 Speakers - YouTube

 

[soundaatma]

Fostex 208E Sigma vs Tangband W8

For OB application, has anybody compared the Fostex 208E Sigma combined with a ribbon like in Basszilla, to the Tangband W8 drivers. From the above OB design, it seems blending in a ribbon would allow more pleasant wide dispersion of the HF , as opposed to an 8 inch W8 driver beaming the high frequencies.

Without a whizzer cone, I guess the 208sigma would be more smoother sounding than the W8 for mid to high frequency application. The cost of the 208 plus a Fountek ribbon and small cap for the ribbon, would not be too much higher than one W8 !

 

[HornTube]

This falls under "you get what you pay for". If you can afford
the PM6A's they are likely the better choice.

That said, The Tang Bands are nice drivers.

No way! Lowther is by far worse in terms of linearity, bass response, distortion & waterfall.

Cabinet design for TB is much much much more (by lightyears) easier.

TB is cheaper but same build quality.

Personally I can't see a reasonable argument for Lowther - well, Lowther has a higher sensitivity but only for the reason of skyhigh rise in mids & upper mids. Not the mention the missing highs with the PM6A's.

 

[HornTube]

For OB application, has anybody compared the Fostex 208E Sigma combined with a ribbon like in Basszilla, to the Tangband W8 drivers. From the above OB design, it seems blending in a ribbon would allow more pleasant wide dispersion of the HF , as opposed to an 8 inch W8 driver beaming the high frequencies.

Without a whizzer cone, I guess the 208sigma would be more smoother sounding than the W8 for mid to high frequency application. The cost of the 208 plus a Fountek ribbon and small cap for the ribbon, would not be too much higher than one W8 !

For me the 208sigma sounds muddy, slow, smeared, nasty & colored, it is even worse than Lowther. The Fostex is no match for the TB In the end there is no match in the entire Fostex range. The new Fostex is not even a fullrange - what a joke!
Fostex & ribbon is not a FR anymore - it is a nightmare in comparison to the TB I tried several FR speakers and even Triangle with ribbons & AMT's, they just don't play together.

Fostex?

 

[HornTube]

Bobs measurements show just how much flatter they are in the 2-5Khz region compared to the FE206E for example, and flatness in that region is absolutely critical to me, and the main reason why I just couldn't stomach the FE206E/FE207E - that 2.5Khz resonance is so severe that it almost makes my ears bleed...

Yeah, and that is only one of the many problems with Fostex drivers...

 

[norman bates]

The 1808 has a peak from 1.5khz to 3.5khz by about 5db, you can see it on their freq plots. I couldn't stomach that.


Norman

 

[Godzilla]

I have the Fostex 165k and 168z to compare to the TB 1808. All three are excellent imo but they are voiced differently. The Fostex sound similar to each other and all three do that 'tone' thing really well. I'd say the Fostex sound more forward on female vocals while the TB's are more forward on male vocals. Otherwise they're all perfect. LOL!

 

[DBMandrake]

The 1808 has a peak from 1.5khz to 3.5khz by about 5db, you can see it on their freq plots. I couldn't stomach that.


Norman

Maybe you're looking at a different graph from me ? I see no 5dB "peak" from 1.5 to 3.5Khz ? In fact its very flat there especially compared to a Fostex FE207E, (just look at bobs overlaid measurements) albeit perhaps a little bit elevated compared to lower frequencies.

There is a modest peak around 3.5Khz followed by a dip at 4Khz that will be due to cone breakup at the edge of the main cone, but that should respond quite well to a bit of damping tweaks at the edge of the cone, like the foam strips I added to my Coral drivers - which before hand had far worse peaks in that frequency range than the tangband and now measure much flatter than unmodified and sound very smooth.

Perhaps I'm not a "purist" but I don't expect any driver to sound completely satisfactory without some sort of compensation network. Broad, smooth elevations in response are far easier to deal with than narrow high Q cone breakup resonances as seen on the Fostex drivers, especially if those resonances introduce notches in the response, where upon it becomes impossible to correct them electronically.

Some response aberrations can be relatively easily and very successfully corrected (I have one peaking filter at 1kHz and 2 notch filters at 2Khz and 4Khz on my Coral drivers for example) while other problems can't be fixed electronically at all. (The 2.5Khz resonance in an FE207E is impossible to solve with EQ, it always sounds bad no matter what...)

I think the key is to pick a driver with correctable errors rather than uncorrectable ones.

Although I haven't heard or measured them first hand yet the 1772/1808 appears to have response variations that should be quite successfully corrected and tweaked, (correctly placed foam strips should smooth out 3-6Khz significantly) certainly their raw response is significantly flatter than my Coral drivers were before I tweaked and EQ'ed them, and I've been able to get extremely good results from them.

 

[norman bates]

An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.

That's the freq response from tang band, and I believe it. I'm sure the summed response looks real good up to 10khz (the stereophile speaker of the year 7" voxativ).
Voxativ Ampeggio loudspeaker Measurements | Stereophile.com

The spike at 5khz (on the 1808) may not be bad, and being a little hot above that is fine too. For the then price of $190 ($250 now) for a single 8", I expect a flatter response, just my opinion. Initially you go "listen to the skin on the drums," then it starts to get annoying in the upper mids, almost a glare in the upper mids, rock guitar is a bit forward. I guess a lowther would never be in my future. And for that cost, I'd rather play with the Audio Nirvana 15's. Don't get me wrong, the 1808 is beautiful piece of machinery, cast frame, underhung, it's nice. It just didn't float my boat. I also thought I'd have more dispersion than 2 people wide at 12', but I suppose that is typical of an 8" whizzer/phase plug.

To my ear, a dip there would sound wonderful (bbc dip, or fletcher munson curve stuff). You are right, if there was a broad notch filter, I'm sure it would be better to my ears, but I'm not a fan of notches and mandatory equalizers. I'm not against then.

Instead I picked up a pair of the betsy drivers. They have a massive 10db spike near 3khz. But I'm up for notching a $50 8" driver (more diy cost in my mind), and I like his business idea. Can't say when they will get into boxes (year or 2 ?).

Just my opinion.

Norman

 

[hm]

1772

hello,
i got a nice Schalmei Sat feedback: 2
schalmeiFB

norman:
thanks for the link,
Voxativ so bad measurements and so good,
look my RDH20 measurement and IMP !!,
both cheaper than one V-driver

 

[HornTube]

The 1808 has a peak from 1.5khz to 3.5khz by about 5db, you can see it on their freq plots. I couldn't stomach that.


Norman

Sorry??? There is no 5dB peak in that region!
Not by TB, Bob Brines, Klang & Ton magazine and Blue Planet Acoustic measurements.

 

[Nelson Pass]

No way! Lowther is by far worse in terms of linearity, bass response, distortion & waterfall.

Cabinet design for TB is much much much more (by lightyears) easier.

TB is cheaper but same build quality.

Personally I can't see a reasonable argument for Lowther - well, Lowther has a higher sensitivity but only for the reason of skyhigh rise in mids & upper mids. Not the mention the missing highs with the PM6A's.

I have the TB's and most of the Lowthers. I think that properly used,
the Lowthers sound better.

 

[soundaatma]

I have the TB's and most of the Lowthers. I think that properly used,
the Lowthers sound better.

Which TB W8..the 1808 or the 1772 did you compare. For OB application which would be a better choice to be used from 100Hz and upto 4-6K Hz.

How about the Fostex 8 inch drivers: the 206En and 208EZ, compared to the TB W8 drivers and Lowther ?

Which of the Lowther is best value for money do you think, for an OB.

Thanks for sharing your experience and wisdom

 

[Godzilla]

And Feastrex? Do they rate? Or are they simply among the great choices?

Of course there's the Seas too.

This morning i enjoyed my son's Pioneer B20 on OB topped with a cheapo piezo and bottomed with a 15" Jamo closeout driver that rocks the house! Regardless of driver, a good implementation can sound very enjoyable. Sometimes I wonder if 'the best' even exists at all?

 

[norman bates]

No problem HM.

Horn tube, list some links, get a graph. I believe we adjust to what we hear, then incorporate it, thinking it is right. We even let the music dictate what we listen to based on the speaker's strengths. And honestly the shelf isn't too bad, until you listen to a flat speaker side by side, then it is glaringly obvious, especially without some baffle step. The 1808 did some good things on my 5' tall hinged open baffle, and I learned I need a phy sized open baffle (66" tall, 12" front with 24" wings) compared to mine (5' tall, 12" center with 15" and 19" wings). That should push the bass more than 1/2 octave deeper.

yes yes godzilla. Execution is everything !!! Absolutely !!!!

Type of music, volume level, and room size, those change everything. Listening to my neighbor playing his bass (4x10") at low volumes, then coming back and listening to a single 8" made it sound anemic and lacking.

I miss my 4x4", talk about catching every background word watching "thx-1138". It really the tone of the movie. But then it falls utterly flat on most music I listen to, and crossing at 150-200hz added some thump but lost a bit of bump.

I'm thinking that a setup like in a stereo store would be an option. Having the tv flanked by different pairs of speakers that we can switch in and out depending on mood/music.

I also like Nelson's HUGE open baffle, what is it, 2' wide and 2' deep straight back wings crossed around 150hz ?

Anyway enough on the 1808.

Norman

 

[larryldspkr]

TB 1772

I spent a couple hours last Thursday night listening to a 6CB5 se tube amp on my TB1772 speakers! This combo sounded really good!!

 

[hm]

Hello,
do you make a measurement?
which notch filter do you use?

 

[larryldspkr]

hm, I use baffle step correction using this Loudspeaker Diffraction Loss and Baffle Step Compensation Circuits. I have been playing with 6-8 db compensation, and using closer to 8db max! My baffle is 12 inches wide.

Larry