<dig out an old thread>
I've tried these with the W3-315SC and now the Vifa TG9DF10-04s and i'm impressed. I'll try the lower sand loading shortly, but for the mean time, hard against a wall, they sound fine
next changes:
- 16 or 18mm MDF
- sealing with Bitumen mastic
- 30cm higher, with sand-filled space
- chamfer the inside of the driver hole
Bret
I've tried these with the W3-315SC and now the Vifa TG9DF10-04s and i'm impressed. I'll try the lower sand loading shortly, but for the mean time, hard against a wall, they sound fine
next changes:
- 16 or 18mm MDF
- sealing with Bitumen mastic
- 30cm higher, with sand-filled space
- chamfer the inside of the driver hole
Bret
... and i hit the limits
the 50W /Chan of my Arcam 8P sounds excellent, it's really rather good close up. Bass control is good (this is still with 10mm MDF) and it's generally impressive for the size of driver. I've stunned a couple of colleagues... however, they're not for big rooms. I ran them near to distortion last weekend for a couple of hours and they're none the worse for it, but they simply weren't loud enough. The room was, though, close on 50m2....so i wasn't really surprised.
A good amp, some volume and a small room with a wall hard behind them and life is pretty good.
Bret
the 50W /Chan of my Arcam 8P sounds excellent, it's really rather good close up. Bass control is good (this is still with 10mm MDF) and it's generally impressive for the size of driver. I've stunned a couple of colleagues... however, they're not for big rooms. I ran them near to distortion last weekend for a couple of hours and they're none the worse for it, but they simply weren't loud enough. The room was, though, close on 50m2....so i wasn't really surprised.
A good amp, some volume and a small room with a wall hard behind them and life is pretty good.
Bret
i'd highly recommend the 16mm / Sand combination. However, the bass is seriously dry, clean and down to 42Hz or so (i will test again when they come back upstairs, i'm painting); they are 1m tall and the additional space at the bottom is completely filled with Quarz sand.
The Stuffing in this case is that from an old pillow; it's stuffed to approx 52cm from the top - the same above and below the driver - and it is extremely good now, very very clear. I'm running using a Phase26 USB from Terratec. I will try to test these versions in my office.
The other thing that strikes is that these drivers really do need 20-25 hours of running-in before they sound any good. I've just crossed this barrier with this set and the difference is significant.
Bret
The Stuffing in this case is that from an old pillow; it's stuffed to approx 52cm from the top - the same above and below the driver - and it is extremely good now, very very clear. I'm running using a Phase26 USB from Terratec. I will try to test these versions in my office.
The other thing that strikes is that these drivers really do need 20-25 hours of running-in before they sound any good. I've just crossed this barrier with this set and the difference is significant.
Bret
Best W4 Filter?
I've read threw this post several times, and am still unclear as to what the best filter for the W4-1320 driver is.
I'm planning on going with 3.8ohms and 0.8mH, but other have used ever all the way to 6.0ohms and 0.7mH. What is the reasoning behind all the variation? Thanks
Ray
I've read threw this post several times, and am still unclear as to what the best filter for the W4-1320 driver is.
I'm planning on going with 3.8ohms and 0.8mH, but other have used ever all the way to 6.0ohms and 0.7mH. What is the reasoning behind all the variation? Thanks
Ray
Hi Ray,I am planning to try my TABAQ with the 4" TB. Believe it or not, I have not tried it - only the 3" TB. But will compare the two.
According to simulaton with MJK´s model, the filter should be the same for both the 3" and the 4": 3.9 ohm and 1.0 mH. These are the values from my original article in Ax.
With the 4" however, it seems no filter is needed if the listening position is 3 meter, and the speaker is against the wall and standing directly on the floor.
If your listening postion is closer, filter should be used.
I would suggest you made a filter and use it if you find the sound more balanced in your own listening room.
Bjorn
According to simulaton with MJK´s model, the filter should be the same for both the 3" and the 4": 3.9 ohm and 1.0 mH. These are the values from my original article in Ax.
With the 4" however, it seems no filter is needed if the listening position is 3 meter, and the speaker is against the wall and standing directly on the floor.
If your listening postion is closer, filter should be used.
I would suggest you made a filter and use it if you find the sound more balanced in your own listening room.
Bjorn
"extended" tabaq with Vifa TG9s
pics:
these are 1 metre tall, using 16mm MDF; the extra space is completely filled with Quarz sand. They're damn heavy!
The drivers are not flush and they're not fixed yet, as the finish needs to be completed with 10micron paper, maybe some more "patching", 2-3 coats of gloss varnish and then polishing.
Bret
pics:
these are 1 metre tall, using 16mm MDF; the extra space is completely filled with Quarz sand. They're damn heavy!
The drivers are not flush and they're not fixed yet, as the finish needs to be completed with 10micron paper, maybe some more "patching", 2-3 coats of gloss varnish and then polishing.
Bret
sorry, I've been on a trip and busy building my car back together for SWMBO...
anyway. I don't use a filter. the originals astound people time and again - NO-ONE! - accepts initially that there's no sub running
The one pair runs at work and has been used succesfully for parties; I will build something else for sheer volume later.
Bret
anyway. I don't use a filter. the originals astound people time and again - NO-ONE! - accepts initially that there's no sub running
The one pair runs at work and has been used succesfully for parties; I will build something else for sheer volume later.
Bret
Thanks for the feedback guys... Since TB's are not really an option for me due to availability, it looks to be all systems go with the Vifa's.
I am planning on mounting the driver up the top as I reckon it is much better visually.. but otherwise the same. See
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/show...21265&perpage=25&highlight=tabaq&pagenumber=1
Will probably do some testing with the filter and see how it goes.
cheers
I am planning on mounting the driver up the top as I reckon it is much better visually.. but otherwise the same. See
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/show...21265&perpage=25&highlight=tabaq&pagenumber=1
Will probably do some testing with the filter and see how it goes.
cheers
I'm a newbie planning to build these as a first project with TB871. Can I just ask about the BSC components? The recommended circuit is L=1.0mH and R =3.9ohms.
I'm planning to use Mundorf air coils L71 (0.71mm wire, R=0.91, rated 20W at 8ohm), and possibly ceramic resistors, rated 10W - basically because it looks like this is what is used in the TABAQ pdf document.
Are these suitable, am I better using metal oxide resitors, and do I need higher W ratings for resistor, and/or heavier duty inductor (eg 1mm wire)?
I'm planning to use Mundorf air coils L71 (0.71mm wire, R=0.91, rated 20W at 8ohm), and possibly ceramic resistors, rated 10W - basically because it looks like this is what is used in the TABAQ pdf document.
Are these suitable, am I better using metal oxide resitors, and do I need higher W ratings for resistor, and/or heavier duty inductor (eg 1mm wire)?
Yes, I have read that thread. I read it again just now. I certainly didn't mean to imply that you were stupid, and I hope you didn't either.
I've also built TABAQs ,I've bought MJK's t-line worksheets, and I've simulated the TABAQ and variations thereof. It's true that when the stuffing levels are high, driver at the top works well. But I like my sims of the original position better than my sims of the driver at top. And, since my TABAQs sounded better to me with somewhat less stuffing, I simmed at lower stuffing levels with the drivers in both positions. Again, the original position is better-looking.
Of course, room interaction will dominate the differences between the two positions. But the driver-at-top sims show appreciably more ripple in the 200-400Hz range, at least my sims do. The feeling I get is that Bjorn's tactic of optimizing position first and them improving through stuffing results in a smoother response, and what I see is that driver at top is not as smooth as driver in the original position.
But hey, they're your cabinets. Build what you want. Let us know how you like them.
Me, I'm going to start cutting wood for that pair of folded TABAQs I designed a few months ago. Those will have the driver at the top of the cabinet AND at the original position within the line. I'll report back on those when I have 'em done.
I've also built TABAQs ,I've bought MJK's t-line worksheets, and I've simulated the TABAQ and variations thereof. It's true that when the stuffing levels are high, driver at the top works well. But I like my sims of the original position better than my sims of the driver at top. And, since my TABAQs sounded better to me with somewhat less stuffing, I simmed at lower stuffing levels with the drivers in both positions. Again, the original position is better-looking.
Of course, room interaction will dominate the differences between the two positions. But the driver-at-top sims show appreciably more ripple in the 200-400Hz range, at least my sims do. The feeling I get is that Bjorn's tactic of optimizing position first and them improving through stuffing results in a smoother response, and what I see is that driver at top is not as smooth as driver in the original position.
But hey, they're your cabinets. Build what you want. Let us know how you like them.
Me, I'm going to start cutting wood for that pair of folded TABAQs I designed a few months ago. Those will have the driver at the top of the cabinet AND at the original position within the line. I'll report back on those when I have 'em done.
I have made a pair of Tabaqs w/ a cabinet similiar to Bretti's except driver is w3-871s and placed on the side of the cabinet. I filled the "bottoms" of the cabinet with sand. First impressions wo/ any external circuits is quite bright and stereo imaging...
I still haven't got real tests for the speakers, but definitely needs help from the front wall placement. I bought the pair of drivers with 30euros. Imazing sound with that price
I still haven't got real tests for the speakers, but definitely needs help from the front wall placement. I bought the pair of drivers with 30euros. Imazing sound with that price