Ive just finished my prototype T-Line enclosure. Took all of 30minutes for all measuring and construction, so its nothing pretty at all but......... THE SOUND!
It sound beautiful, dominating, forceful.. yet graceful. Its full of detail and clarity yet very powerful..
It uses 2 6.5" kelvar speakers and bass responce is great, more then what you would expect from 6.5" drivers, but isnt earth shattering. After hearing my prototypes, I can see why there is such a following behind this particular design.
Now my big delema is, seen some of its use is for home theature
Do i really need a sub now? mm.. 12/15" t-line?
It sound beautiful, dominating, forceful.. yet graceful. Its full of detail and clarity yet very powerful..
It uses 2 6.5" kelvar speakers and bass responce is great, more then what you would expect from 6.5" drivers, but isnt earth shattering. After hearing my prototypes, I can see why there is such a following behind this particular design.
Now my big delema is, seen some of its use is for home theature
Do i really need a sub now? mm.. 12/15" t-line?
What's the setup for your B-139s? 1/4 of what freq.? fs? what is your fs?
For my theatre in a home system I will be building the subwoofers into the walls. I made this decision after making use of a Sonotube subwoofer...awesome! It will be powered by an older Technics stereo receiver so, turning the subwoofer off for music will keep Kenny G happy while touting his soprano sax skills
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Supa-roo, you say that your enclosure makes use of 2 6.5" drivers, are they wired in parallel or series? Side-by-side mounting or did you choose a fundamental freq. along your line and place the driver there? Have you tried listening to one 6.5"? What are the differences you notice? I ask this because I am planning to build another set of speakers, two mid-bass units (one tied to a T-line and the other on top of the tweet in an IB like the Orions.) Would like to know if I could simply use a TMM where the Ms are both making use of the same line instead of MTM design above, where I would not be able to locate speakers too close to a wall.
For my theatre in a home system I will be building the subwoofers into the walls. I made this decision after making use of a Sonotube subwoofer...awesome! It will be powered by an older Technics stereo receiver so, turning the subwoofer off for music will keep Kenny G happy while touting his soprano sax skills
.Supa-roo, you say that your enclosure makes use of 2 6.5" drivers, are they wired in parallel or series? Side-by-side mounting or did you choose a fundamental freq. along your line and place the driver there? Have you tried listening to one 6.5"? What are the differences you notice? I ask this because I am planning to build another set of speakers, two mid-bass units (one tied to a T-line and the other on top of the tweet in an IB like the Orions.) Would like to know if I could simply use a TMM where the Ms are both making use of the same line instead of MTM design above, where I would not be able to locate speakers too close to a wall.
This Week's System Setup.....
The current bi-amped setup is the upper 8" 2 ways are running 100Hz and up flat (Amcron D-150A II), and the lower TL cabinet (B-139 driver only) is directly connected to an amp providing 100Hz and down, with bass and sub bass eq available (old Technics SU-V8 integrated amp).
The TL cabinets were an Australian kit from the mid seventies and are about 490 wide x 490 deep x 950 high.
Internal panels cause a line 3 times the height of the box that vents out the bottom RH corner, and is quite well packed with Merino wool.
The result is huge bottom end bass that rumbles and shakes the sofa, but NEVER any boxiness or ANY boominess (the acoustically opaque nature of the B-139's is a lot to do with this I reckon).
Good kick drum recordings really kick, and bass guitar vibrates (massages) the kidneys very nicely.
On recordings (particularly live recordings) with big bass and drums, this system cranks big time, and is always fun to listen to.
With the power that I have available (300W+ or so total), big recordings are a total body experience, and the low bass is on the verge of blurring vision. (I spent a day setting up a Genesis I system years ago, and that setup blurred the vision on bass lines).
A footpath or backyard soundcheck reveals big sound coming from the house, but no boom, drone or bonkiness at all, unlike typical modern sub-woofers.
If you are prepared to build big and heavy enclosures, TL's will likely satisfy you very nicely.
Eric.
No idea what the Fs is, but they do go down cleanly and honestly to below 35 Hz or so, with all the power, punch and slam that you could likely ever want.
The current bi-amped setup is the upper 8" 2 ways are running 100Hz and up flat (Amcron D-150A II), and the lower TL cabinet (B-139 driver only) is directly connected to an amp providing 100Hz and down, with bass and sub bass eq available (old Technics SU-V8 integrated amp).
The TL cabinets were an Australian kit from the mid seventies and are about 490 wide x 490 deep x 950 high.
Internal panels cause a line 3 times the height of the box that vents out the bottom RH corner, and is quite well packed with Merino wool.
The result is huge bottom end bass that rumbles and shakes the sofa, but NEVER any boxiness or ANY boominess (the acoustically opaque nature of the B-139's is a lot to do with this I reckon).
Good kick drum recordings really kick, and bass guitar vibrates (massages) the kidneys very nicely.
On recordings (particularly live recordings) with big bass and drums, this system cranks big time, and is always fun to listen to.
With the power that I have available (300W+ or so total), big recordings are a total body experience, and the low bass is on the verge of blurring vision. (I spent a day setting up a Genesis I system years ago, and that setup blurred the vision on bass lines).
A footpath or backyard soundcheck reveals big sound coming from the house, but no boom, drone or bonkiness at all, unlike typical modern sub-woofers.
If you are prepared to build big and heavy enclosures, TL's will likely satisfy you very nicely.
Eric.
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The speakers being 4Ohm units are wired in theory, Id hessitate to see the smoke my amp would make with a 2Ohm load.
As You can see in the image they are one above the other, the box is a little too wide, but alas I had a box lying around so I Utilised it.
I tried running just one driver, and I think its because of the Reduced VAS the bass did suffer, accompanied by the reduced overall volume. Although a Good driver, and maybe tune your box lower, mine isnt tuned very low, but tuned further down the scale, and then have another driver, take over the midband would make an improvement along what i found. but like i said mine was designed for the 2 drivers, there are plenty of 1x 6.5" t-lines going hard. and if you have some materials lying around experiment.
As you can see in the picture its nothing pretty but 30minutes to do the lot, wasnt bad for the Protoype, which I must say has turned out superb.
In the future I am thinking of going another T-line utilising a 10" driver, use 2 of the drivers pictured maybe in a T-line as well, but have the line tuned nice and high so as the frequencys dont overlap, topped off with a motorolla peizo tweeter.
The saying seems to hold true though that any driver can be used in a T-Line these particular drivers are designed for Free air mounting, in car doors parcel shelves etc.
Today I tested this box with everything from the SanFransisco (pardon spelling) orchestra to slipknot. and it is a great all round performer. and if there was bass it could not handle, where some may turn boomy, it seemed to handle quite well.
As You can see in the image they are one above the other, the box is a little too wide, but alas I had a box lying around so I Utilised it.
I tried running just one driver, and I think its because of the Reduced VAS the bass did suffer, accompanied by the reduced overall volume. Although a Good driver, and maybe tune your box lower, mine isnt tuned very low, but tuned further down the scale, and then have another driver, take over the midband would make an improvement along what i found. but like i said mine was designed for the 2 drivers, there are plenty of 1x 6.5" t-lines going hard. and if you have some materials lying around experiment.
As you can see in the picture its nothing pretty but 30minutes to do the lot, wasnt bad for the Protoype, which I must say has turned out superb.
In the future I am thinking of going another T-line utilising a 10" driver, use 2 of the drivers pictured maybe in a T-line as well, but have the line tuned nice and high so as the frequencys dont overlap, topped off with a motorolla peizo tweeter.
The saying seems to hold true though that any driver can be used in a T-Line these particular drivers are designed for Free air mounting, in car doors parcel shelves etc.
Today I tested this box with everything from the SanFransisco (pardon spelling) orchestra to slipknot. and it is a great all round performer. and if there was bass it could not handle, where some may turn boomy, it seemed to handle quite well.
Attachments
Thank you (supa and feedback) for your comments, it's great that DIY'ers are building so many TLs these days. Now if only I could find a DIY meeting around Ottawa, I could show off my latest TL projects. You guys WILL see those fairly soon...it's just a matter of burning the images onto a CD.
"northern hemisphere (the correct hemisphere, btw), "
Darn Tootin!
Maybe I could raise such a question about meetings to an audiophile magazine. It would be great to meet someone else in person who appreciates names such as Audax, Peerless and Seas as I (we on diyaudio.com).
:you will never be able to listen to an ordinary box speaker dispassionately again."
Pinkmouse, How true it is.
Darn Tootin!
Maybe I could raise such a question about meetings to an audiophile magazine. It would be great to meet someone else in person who appreciates names such as Audax, Peerless and Seas as I (we on diyaudio.com).
:you will never be able to listen to an ordinary box speaker dispassionately again."
Pinkmouse, How true it is.
No I dont think i'll ever be able to listen to another convertional set of speakers again, except maybe my big baby 4x10" paper cone alumin dome and 2x peizo tweeter, or use them in a t-line.
The kevlar Drivers are from jaycar www.jaycar.com.au
They were the CS-2298 $199 a pair
they had a few with bad glue on the surround, and easy regluing job if you have the glue, so i bought 4 of the drivers for $75
The details of the design, was i have a box 342x543x300
and i just make some panels, up to build it into a t-line
then went crazy with the dampening materils (wadding) to tune the line, and wallah not perfect, but wow damned impressive.
Theres info on t-lines around on the web to help you with your designing, www.t-linespeakers.org is where it all started for me, and they have a mirad of info on designing your own t-line.
There is the martin luther set of maths etc, for t-line design and curve plotting, but i more or less followed the basic guidlines, and then tuned with dampening material. sorry i couldnt have been more help with design, but like I said i did mine loosesly with some materials lying round as a prototype and well ive most likely fluked it.
The kevlar Drivers are from jaycar www.jaycar.com.au
They were the CS-2298 $199 a pair
they had a few with bad glue on the surround, and easy regluing job if you have the glue, so i bought 4 of the drivers for $75
The details of the design, was i have a box 342x543x300
and i just make some panels, up to build it into a t-line
then went crazy with the dampening materils (wadding) to tune the line, and wallah not perfect, but wow damned impressive.
Theres info on t-lines around on the web to help you with your designing, www.t-linespeakers.org is where it all started for me, and they have a mirad of info on designing your own t-line.
There is the martin luther set of maths etc, for t-line design and curve plotting, but i more or less followed the basic guidlines, and then tuned with dampening material. sorry i couldnt have been more help with design, but like I said i did mine loosesly with some materials lying round as a prototype and well ive most likely fluked it.
im loosing the plot
PHASE SHIFT!
what the hell am I talking about, to many days doing CIT exams.
WAVELENGTH
any way have a look here for those charts
http://www.members.tripod.com/oakleyspeakers/FREWAVCHART.htm
PHASE SHIFT!
what the hell am I talking about, to many days doing CIT exams.
WAVELENGTH
any way have a look here for those charts
http://www.members.tripod.com/oakleyspeakers/FREWAVCHART.htm
If people are looking for some TL design help, and maybe the MathCad worksheets are a little bit overwhelming, I have recently added a set of alignment tables for classic TLs to my site. You can find them linked from the first page of the site just under the theory sections. Basically I have put together alignment tables that cover the following parameter ranges.
20 Hz > fs > 70 Hz
0.3 > Qts > 0.5
0.1 > SL/S0 > 10
If your driver's T/S properties fall out side these ranges, it should be easy enough to extrapolate. If you geometry is falling outside of these area ratios then you are definitely more extreme then I ever imagined. I would still recommend plugging the proposed desing into the "TL Offset Driver" MathCad worksheet just as a double check. But if you want a quick and easy alignment that will get you closer to an opimum enclosure then the old rules of thumb then I believe these tables will do the trick.
Hope that helps,
20 Hz > fs > 70 Hz
0.3 > Qts > 0.5
0.1 > SL/S0 > 10
If your driver's T/S properties fall out side these ranges, it should be easy enough to extrapolate. If you geometry is falling outside of these area ratios then you are definitely more extreme then I ever imagined. I would still recommend plugging the proposed desing into the "TL Offset Driver" MathCad worksheet just as a double check. But if you want a quick and easy alignment that will get you closer to an opimum enclosure then the old rules of thumb then I believe these tables will do the trick.
Hope that helps,
Re: This Week's System Setup.....
I'm surprised you haven't pulled leads out from the B110 -- it is much better than the B200, particularily from about 2k up to the XO point. I have details of KEFs aB XO for the T27 if you want to tweak the XO (i wouldn't be surprised if the XO in the TL is a DN12.
Is the line triangulated?
I'm sure Martin will be flattered, but it is Martin J King not Martin Luther King (he was another famous American, but in a different field)
dave
mrfeedback said:
I'm surprised you haven't pulled leads out from the B110 -- it is much better than the B200, particularily from about 2k up to the XO point. I have details of KEFs aB XO for the T27 if you want to tweak the XO (i wouldn't be surprised if the XO in the TL is a DN12.
Is the line triangulated?
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
supa-roo said:
I'm sure Martin will be flattered, but it is Martin J King not Martin Luther King (he was another famous American, but in a different field)
dave
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