How do you know? Did you measure this or is this another non scientific assumption?
It's really not too hard to measure this simply by placing a DMM set to current measuring in between the power line, it's a dead simple single supply amp for cod sake!
Yes these amps need a lot of power, merely because they output transient peaks which should be able to be delivered by the power supply, if not the result is simple: distortion....
Helping
Just something simple to try to begin narrowing down the cause of the problem.
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Good observation. I will try changing to a bead.
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More helping and less negativity in your attitude would be appreciated. Most of your posts on all of the different threads I have seen you on are very negative. I understand that it is frustrating to see yet another Chinese manufacturer on eBay undercutting your favorite European kit amp supplier due to an advantage in parts prices and labor rates but the fact is that most people would not want to attempt building a kit with all of the small surface mount components that are optimal for a class D amp so we are all fortunate to have the Sure 2X100 available at a cheap price. It does have it's flaws, but is nonetheless a good value and a good starting point.
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It has gotten us a great sounding output filter. The less intrusive values I have come up with sound way better than the text book filters we have known from before and finally release the sound of a class D amp to go beyond the sonic capabilities of class AB. There are major differences in the sound of coils, as there are for input caps. I would hope that you would actually LISTEN to some of the recommendations posted here before refuting them further without even having tried them. Unfortunately, many engineer types are brainwashed by their training to believe all (fill in the blank) sound "The Same" and so don't ever spend much time doing comparative listening to anything because they think they already know the outcome based on theory and measurements. A simple listening test of the new fan compared to a passive heatsink would have caught it's noise issue in 5 minutes.
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Just something simple to try to begin narrowing down the cause of the problem.
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Good observation. I will try changing to a bead.
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More helping and less negativity in your attitude would be appreciated. Most of your posts on all of the different threads I have seen you on are very negative. I understand that it is frustrating to see yet another Chinese manufacturer on eBay undercutting your favorite European kit amp supplier due to an advantage in parts prices and labor rates but the fact is that most people would not want to attempt building a kit with all of the small surface mount components that are optimal for a class D amp so we are all fortunate to have the Sure 2X100 available at a cheap price. It does have it's flaws, but is nonetheless a good value and a good starting point.
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.I'm sorry, but I see a lot of work being done like the sorcerer's apprentice, no scientific approach whatsoever. Guys spending hours, perhaps even days listening to the sound of inductors. Even though it can be quite entertaining, technically it's not really getting anywhere.
It has gotten us a great sounding output filter. The less intrusive values I have come up with sound way better than the text book filters we have known from before and finally release the sound of a class D amp to go beyond the sonic capabilities of class AB. There are major differences in the sound of coils, as there are for input caps. I would hope that you would actually LISTEN to some of the recommendations posted here before refuting them further without even having tried them. Unfortunately, many engineer types are brainwashed by their training to believe all (fill in the blank) sound "The Same" and so don't ever spend much time doing comparative listening to anything because they think they already know the outcome based on theory and measurements. A simple listening test of the new fan compared to a passive heatsink would have caught it's noise issue in 5 minutes.
The most frustrating is to see these fantastic chips having been dumped into a corner where there is little love for quality, rather the making of easy money. This goes with disrespect to the environment, love for music, just the plain goal of making money and cutting the corners for other suppliers. The reason why I buy stuff is not only to save money, but also because I endorse the supplier. Hence the frustration and negativity towards all who do endorse such suppliers, yet hence the interest on my behalf for Tripath products... I'm glad I am not running a business in this field...In Europe we have been through decades of creating laws to fight the polution of big companies, the Chinese yet have to create and probably learn the hard way as well... The only power we have as consumers is the boycott, and I intend to use this power with common sense.... It would perhaps be more right to call me an idealist, rather than just negative....
Then I always listen first, then measure to see if my ears were right, ears are not a very good measuring tool....
Then I always listen first, then measure to see if my ears were right, ears are not a very good measuring tool....
Why can I not edit my message now?! There used to be an edit button...?!
Well anyway I wanted to add the poor Chinese underpaid workers indeed, often working with no health insurance and bad conditions...
But ok, you got a point on most persons are not equipped or capable to assemble an SMD board themselves. But many are soldering the crap out of these ebay boards with their mods, then I have to repeat myself that modding an already assembled board is more than twice the work of building it right straight off, and there's an enormous risk of damaging the board. Plus I find the assembling process a lot of fun and a great learning experience!
Well anyway I wanted to add the poor Chinese underpaid workers indeed, often working with no health insurance and bad conditions...
But ok, you got a point on most persons are not equipped or capable to assemble an SMD board themselves. But many are soldering the crap out of these ebay boards with their mods, then I have to repeat myself that modding an already assembled board is more than twice the work of building it right straight off, and there's an enormous risk of damaging the board. Plus I find the assembling process a lot of fun and a great learning experience!
Hi,
First post. I would like to humbly request a little help in assembling my TK2050-based amp. I have a few questions:
1. I gather a soft start circuit is required to keep the power supply from shutting down at power on, and a temporary mute circuit is desirable to suppress the pops at power on/off. Is this correct? I had planned to use the board with only a stepped attenuator and an on/off switch before the power supply.
2. Is the above solution provided by ElFishi the final word? Seems fine to me - just was wondering if most people are doing this or something else.
3. Are there any changes required to use with a 32V supply (Meanwell 36V 350W SMPS)?
4. Are the white LEDs always on, or only temporarily?
Thanks!
How do you know? Did you measure this or is this another non scientific assumption?
It's really not too hard to measure this simply by placing a DMM set to current measuring in between the power line, it's a dead simple single supply amp for cod sake!
Yes these amps need a lot of power, merely because they output transient peaks which should be able to be delivered by the power supply, if not the result is simple: distortion....
My speakers are hatt- mkIII, and room is 3.5 m2 (three-point-five). When 50W is being played in there - you know. If it's going to make you happy, I will put a watt meter on the line and report. Btw, I did not see much science around recommendations for shelling out euros for bigger ps either
Btw, my trusty vincent sv-236 wiped the floor with tripath, pretty much as it did with two GCs I have. I am wondering though if tp would come close with active crossover. So far, TP plays like 200eur Technics, so it still a bargain. Haven't tried the mods yet.
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Hi, i'm looking for the power supply for the 4x100 version.
Are these;
350W 36V DC 10A Regulated Switching Power Supply [K008] on eBay (end time 20-Jun-10 09:50:00 BST)
New 36V DC 10A 350W Regulated Switching Power Supply on eBay (end time 13-Jun-10 09:30:25 BST)
350W 36V DC 10A Regulated Switching Power Supply [K008] on eBay (end time 19-Jun-10 07:26:58 BST)
just unbadged meanwell supplies? / will they be good?
Are these;
350W 36V DC 10A Regulated Switching Power Supply [K008] on eBay (end time 20-Jun-10 09:50:00 BST)
New 36V DC 10A 350W Regulated Switching Power Supply on eBay (end time 13-Jun-10 09:30:25 BST)
350W 36V DC 10A Regulated Switching Power Supply [K008] on eBay (end time 19-Jun-10 07:26:58 BST)
just unbadged meanwell supplies? / will they be good?
I have a 27 volt version of the Modder's supply and it has worked flawlessly so far. Modders appears to be Sure Electronics in disguise(tracking and payment from Sure website). I just picked up a 36volt Meanwell from Sure to power my new board from Hifimediy but haven't had time to try it out. The Meanwell was $54 US and the Modder's supply is approximately $39US shipped.
mb3, I just received the third SMPS you listed. It is indeed a Meanwell. I'm still waiting for the board, but my reading of this thread is that it is a good choice.
One more clarification about Elfishi's soft start mute on/off circuit. I believe there is a pot shown in the diagram in parallel with the 1N4148 that does not appear in the BOM. Anybody know the spec on that? Or am I reading it wrong? Thanks!
One more clarification about Elfishi's soft start mute on/off circuit. I believe there is a pot shown in the diagram in parallel with the 1N4148 that does not appear in the BOM. Anybody know the spec on that? Or am I reading it wrong? Thanks!
Just received my board
One of the buffer caps (220uF) is mounted with only one pin
I was replacing those anyway, but it says something about the quality they tend to use...
Will post a page with all my mods next week or so
One of my input caps was slightly melted so...
But they're not alone - in another of my Chinese amp, one of its input caps was also slightly melted.
If everybody does things badly it becomes average.
has anyone had this failiure with the 2*100W tk2050 sure board?
my amp is in constant mute it has a difference of potential between the GND of the power source and the GND of the input (of 1.28 Volts) has anyone had this weird situation?
All I did prior to this embarrassing situation was connect the amp to a 12V battery and toggle the mute a few times (to check the mute led I connected to the switch) with no speakers or input source
my amp is in constant mute it has a difference of potential between the GND of the power source and the GND of the input (of 1.28 Volts) has anyone had this weird situation?
All I did prior to this embarrassing situation was connect the amp to a 12V battery and toggle the mute a few times (to check the mute led I connected to the switch) with no speakers or input source
Hello guys. I decided to play a little too... here is my amp project:
I got the box from my friends at Holfi, so the result is very good in my opinion.
I also build a DAC in, after a danish design.
As you can see, the PSU is battery based, with a small charger and it works fine.
Kind regards
Panos
I got the box from my friends at Holfi, so the result is very good in my opinion.
I also build a DAC in, after a danish design.
As you can see, the PSU is battery based, with a small charger and it works fine.
Kind regards
Panos
Noise when sharing
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Charlize's power supply has to be STANDALONE. Yup, don't share her power supply
with another girl, sorry, component, or ANYTHING at all. Even Monica. Yeah, Charlize is a bit fussy here. She must have her own power supply. I tell you, she'll scream at you if don't heed this advice.
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Return of the King!
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It's not just the Sure board that complains about sharing a power supply. This noise problem is also noted with other class D amps. From the Charlize amp module web page:
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Charlize's power supply has to be STANDALONE. Yup, don't share her power supply
with another girl, sorry, component, or ANYTHING at all. Even Monica. Yeah, Charlize is a bit fussy here. She must have her own power supply. I tell you, she'll scream at you if don't heed this advice.
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Return of the King!
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It does seem strange that 2 x 2channel Sure boards have noise when used on the same PSU, while as far as I know, the 4 channel board (which is essentially 2 x 2channel boards on a single PCB) does not have any noise problems.
That said, even if there were no issues with noise, I think a separate power supply for each Sure board is the way to go, be it 2 or 4 channel, if you have the space. The 350w Meanwell units are both small and cheap consider in the amount of power they produce.
I went for Bulgin PSU's in the end, they are over twice the size of a Meanwell, and produce just over half the power (200W), the main reason I chose them is because they were fanless and they have a higher switching frequency compared to the Meanwell units. If costs and space are your main concerns, the Meanwell 350W units are ideal.
That said, even if there were no issues with noise, I think a separate power supply for each Sure board is the way to go, be it 2 or 4 channel, if you have the space.
The 350w Meanwell units are both small and cheap consider in the amount of power they produce. I went for Bulgin PSU's in the end, they are over twice the size of a Meanwell, and produce just over half the power (200W), the main reason I chose them is because they were fanless and they have a higher switching frequency compared to the Meanwell units. If costs and space are your main concerns, the Meanwell 350W units are ideal.
one plane
Because with the 4X100, all of the chips are solid onto one ground plane.
Ok, I'm quickly getting above my comfort zone, but I have a clarification question about this multiple-ground-plane thing with running multiple class-d amps off of one power supply:
Do the 'noises' occur because your signal grounds on two different boards are slightly different, or is it something else I'm not wrapping my head around?
Would this behavior only happen when the signals coming into two different boards are coming from the same device and referenced from the same signal ground, like this:
Output from Device 1 ---> amplifier board 1 (powered by Power Supply 1)
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-----> amplifier board 2 (powered by Power Supply 1)
Or does it also happen if you connect it like this:
Output from Device 1 ---> amplifier board 1 (powered by Power Supply 1)
Output from Device 2 ---> amplifier board 2 (powered by Power Supply 1)
If the noise occurs in both cases, is the only way to have a multichannel amp to put all the channels on the same board so they are referenced to the same ground plane?
Thanks!
Mystery
The cause of the noise issue is still a mystery at this point so we don't know the solution other than to use each board with it's own supply. My hunch is that it is related to the grounds and from having all of my equipment using only two prong ac cords.
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The cause of the noise issue is still a mystery at this point so we don't know the solution other than to use each board with it's own supply. My hunch is that it is related to the grounds and from having all of my equipment using only two prong ac cords.
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