My experience with the Sure is not scientific, no blind testing, no ABX, not even simple AB testing; I just changed the configuration and noticed a difference. In my opinion, the change was as dramatic as changing the input capacitors, and similar. The sound is crisper, sharper, and more detailed. At the same time, it is smoother and sweeter, especially the sopranos and trumpets. The system really didn't have anything you could call harshness or grainyness before, but now it has even less.
It's kind of like replacing the input caps with poly film and being impressed with the accuracy and articulation that results, while the tonality gets sweeter.
I had been trying some high-end speaker cables I was borrowing from friends. I could hear some real (perceived) improvements with some of them. But some of them cost more than $500 and all were over $100. Instead I spent $70 on a Sure and a power supply and it sounds better (to me) than any of the high end speaker cables.
-dr_vega
Before the little Tripath amps made superb audio affordable to us plebians, we struggled with mid-fi. One of the "adjustments" we made were soft dome tweeters. The metal dome tweeters were "harsh" and "overly bright." Those nice silk tweeters were so much easier to listen to.
Now that we have truly first rate amplifiers for less than $100, we can re-examine those tweeters.
It turns out that those metal tweeters weren't harsh, they were merely revealing the harshness of our mid-fi amps (mostly caused, I believe, by electrolytic capacitors). The soft domes masked that harshness so we thought they were better.
The modded Tripath amps don't have any harshness, so metal dome tweeters really come into their own. Their extreme accuracy, which sounded bad with bad amps, sounds great with great amps.
-dr_vega
Now that we have truly first rate amplifiers for less than $100, we can re-examine those tweeters.
It turns out that those metal tweeters weren't harsh, they were merely revealing the harshness of our mid-fi amps (mostly caused, I believe, by electrolytic capacitors). The soft domes masked that harshness so we thought they were better.
The modded Tripath amps don't have any harshness, so metal dome tweeters really come into their own. Their extreme accuracy, which sounded bad with bad amps, sounds great with great amps.
-dr_vega
Mark's announcement is a bit of a deflator--this was on another thread. I'm still waiting impatiently for my Sure board, and now this:
"I have shelved my Sure Electronics board although its still working fine. It doesn't hold a candle to the new T.I. class D stuff from Class D Audio in CA. Right out of the box the T.I. board is a mind blower!!"
Grr. Class D merry-go-round.
"I have shelved my Sure Electronics board although its still working fine. It doesn't hold a candle to the new T.I. class D stuff from Class D Audio in CA. Right out of the box the T.I. board is a mind blower!!"
Grr. Class D merry-go-round.
I was/am surprised by the sound of this sure amp. It's my first Class D/T amp and in my head and from all the reviews of the original SI T-amp, I was expecting thin, metallic and harsh. But instead it's more laid back than my Audiosource Amp 3 SS and the touch of harshness that went with it is gone ( I too thought some of the blame lay w/ my tweeters). The only downside is that the increased transparency of the Sure shows up any flaws upstream...
Does anyone know of any amp boards that use the TI chips that take digital input? I'd love to try pure digital all the way to the speaker cables.
-dr_vega
I have a second generation SI amp, and "thin, metallic and harsh" is certainly not my experience with it on high-efficiency speakers (95dB/1W/1m). It's quick yet mellow, especially when I spin records. It looks "thin, metallic and harsh!"
Price
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3 times the price though. Those are the Ferroxcube cores that I am waiting to try. Huge magnetic AL requires only a few turns. They were wise to spend a bit more on their output filter but if you are willing and able to mod, you can still do it much cheaper with the Sure 2X100
.
Class D Audio 160W X 2 300W X 1 Class D Audio Power Amplifier - Home and Pro Audio - Amps
.
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3 times the price though. Those are the Ferroxcube cores that I am waiting to try. Huge magnetic AL requires only a few turns. They were wise to spend a bit more on their output filter but if you are willing and able to mod, you can still do it much cheaper with the Sure 2X100
.
Class D Audio 160W X 2 300W X 1 Class D Audio Power Amplifier - Home and Pro Audio - Amps
And so it will be with any ampilification device!
I just don't see as much promise out of the Sure board. I also don't think it's a bad board by any means but the T.I. board is far more capable right out of the box and alot more power. It too may need some mods but not so far. I think 155.00 is a very good price for a made in the USA amplifier board.
Mark
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I'll probably get one soon.I like the idea of supporting a U.S. based small business. Especially these days. And in this case - local!
You're killing me! I haven't even gotten my Sure board yet, and it's already eclipsed?
Let the chips fall where they may . . .
Hey, thats great for a t-shirt! While the Sure board is certainly worth it's price... one can hardly complain about it for the 50 bucks or what ever it cost there is still much better performance for not alot of extra money. It's not like we're talking the cost difference between a Pioneer SX-727 receiver and a Krell FPB-300 power amp here!! Its a small cost difference. I am also going to get one of Class D's IR based boards and have a listen to it.
Mark
I've been following mods by Scott Endler and others here on this thread. So I made the following mods to the Sure Board:
- Input caps: remove the smd caps and MKP caps and replace with Dayton 2.2uf + 0.01uf bypass
- Output caps: replace with 0.47uf Dayton metalized poly caps (not film & foil)
- Output inductors: replace with Jantzen 25uH 18awg air core with 10 turns removed to get to appx 12uH
- Hook up to 2x10000uf at the power input
I also wired in a 20K smd step attenuators purchased from VaLab on Ebay.
Made major improvement to the sound - very smooth, clear and dynamic. No more harshness in the treble.
For reference, the amp is powered by 2x12v SLA batteries, fed via Peter Daniel's USB DAC to Pi two speakers + sub. Speaker cables are braided Cat5e.
This is my first amp modification project. My goodness, everything is so tiny!!!
I would like to thank Scott Endler and others in their sharing of discovery and experimentations in modding of this amp, esp. the experiments of air cores for the output filter. Thank you, guys!!!
Hmm, I wonder how this would compare to the TA2022 amp or the TA3020 amp or the TI 5630 amp or the ....
Duc
- Input caps: remove the smd caps and MKP caps and replace with Dayton 2.2uf + 0.01uf bypass
- Output caps: replace with 0.47uf Dayton metalized poly caps (not film & foil)
- Output inductors: replace with Jantzen 25uH 18awg air core with 10 turns removed to get to appx 12uH
- Hook up to 2x10000uf at the power input
I also wired in a 20K smd step attenuators purchased from VaLab on Ebay.
Made major improvement to the sound - very smooth, clear and dynamic. No more harshness in the treble.
For reference, the amp is powered by 2x12v SLA batteries, fed via Peter Daniel's USB DAC to Pi two speakers + sub. Speaker cables are braided Cat5e.
This is my first amp modification project. My goodness, everything is so tiny!!!
I would like to thank Scott Endler and others in their sharing of discovery and experimentations in modding of this amp, esp. the experiments of air cores for the output filter. Thank you, guys!!!
Hmm, I wonder how this would compare to the TA2022 amp or the TA3020 amp or the TI 5630 amp or the ....
Duc
...This is my first amp modification project. My goodness, everything is so tiny!!!
I would like to thank Scott Endler and others in their sharing of discovery and experimentations in modding of this amp, esp. the experiments of air cores for the output filter. Thank you, guys!!!
Hmm, I wonder how this would compare to the TA2022 amp or the TA3020 amp or the TI 5630 amp or the ....
Duc
Congratulation on your success.
Although I have only heard 3 of the tripath chip amps, my understanding is that the TK2050 is one of the best, if not THE best. I believe that the TC2000/TC2001 controller is a third(?) generation Tripath design and is the best they made.
Whatever, it sounds superb to me.
-dr_vega
Jantzen?
Where did you find Jantzen inductors that small. Most of the speaker building coils are listed in mH. 1000 times too large. Now, try your AM radio at 650kHz to hear how much noise your air coils are radiating.
I've been following mods by Scott Endler and others here on this thread. So I made the following mods to the Sure Board:
- Input caps: remove the smd caps and MKP caps and replace with Dayton 2.2uf + 0.01uf bypass
- Output caps: replace with 0.47uf Dayton metalized poly caps (not film & foil)
- Output inductors: replace with Jantzen 25uH 18awg air core with 10 turns removed to get to appx 12uH
- Hook up to 2x10000uf at the power input
I also wired in a 20K smd step attenuators purchased from VaLab on Ebay.
Made major improvement to the sound - very smooth, clear and dynamic. No more harshness in the treble.
For reference, the amp is powered by 2x12v SLA batteries, fed via Peter Daniel's USB DAC to Pi two speakers + sub. Speaker cables are braided Cat5e.
This is my first amp modification project. My goodness, everything is so tiny!!!
I would like to thank Scott Endler and others in their sharing of discovery and experimentations in modding of this amp, esp. the experiments of air cores for the output filter. Thank you, guys!!!
Hmm, I wonder how this would compare to the TA2022 amp or the TA3020 amp or the TI 5630 amp or the ....
Duc
Where did you find Jantzen inductors that small. Most of the speaker building coils are listed in mH. 1000 times too large. Now, try your AM radio at 650kHz to hear how much noise your air coils are radiating.
This one:
Parts-Express.com: Jantzen 0.025mH 18 AWG Air Core Inductor | Jantzen ir inductors inductor CTS air core air
0.025mH = 25uH, right? I then unwind 10 turns from the inductor, using online inductor calculator.
Actually, for EMI shielding, I plan to connect 0.001uf ceramic cap from speaker output to the case and then ground the case, according to Tripath datasheet.
Thanks,
Duc
Parts-Express.com: Jantzen 0.025mH 18 AWG Air Core Inductor | Jantzen ir inductors inductor CTS air core air
0.025mH = 25uH, right? I then unwind 10 turns from the inductor, using online inductor calculator.
Actually, for EMI shielding, I plan to connect 0.001uf ceramic cap from speaker output to the case and then ground the case, according to Tripath datasheet.
Thanks,
Duc
Case
Let us know when you get it in the case if it helps keep it any quieter. The guys in my other thread are beating me up for mentioning air cores. The toroids might be quiet enough in a case but my solenoidal coils blast out a wicked amount of EMI.
Let us know when you get it in the case if it helps keep it any quieter. The guys in my other thread are beating me up for mentioning air cores. The toroids might be quiet enough in a case but my solenoidal coils blast out a wicked amount of EMI.
Any possibility of posting photos of your amp? I would like to see how you fit the inductor coils on the Sure board.
Thanks
Finally got my board in today. Sounded horribly harsh and congested/constricted at first, so I just watched the Tyson documentary on DVD using the amp for audio. Got bored halfway through the video, so I put on the Kinsmen CD with Rudresh Mahanthappa (Indian-American jazz; won 2nd place in annual Village Voice jazz poll for 2008). Hmm, not as bad. Then played Tom Zé's 1990: Brazil Classics, Vol. 4: The Best of Tom Zé. This amp has some potential!
I'm hamstrung right now: I'm using a crummy Oppo DVD player, which was smoked the other night by a Creek CD player I gave to my girlfriend (she noticed the difference too, and I think feared I was going to try and reclaim said CD player). I'm also sending the signal straight from the Oppo to the amp, being preamp-less at the moment, though I'm fervently hoping that a Superphon Revelation Basic Dual Mono will soon wend its way to chez soldersmoker. Anyway, a few Dayton caps ought to really make this thing sing, and I'm not hating the naked board as Tom Zé does his weird instrumentation/syncopation thang.
Question: What kind of speakers are y'all using; what makes you think the Sure requires 24 to 30+ volts for this board? I find that 12V is plenty loud for my speakers, which are rated at 95dB/1m/1W. Or would a higher voltaic potential reap benefits other than mere sonic volume? Does the board not come into its own unless you're feeding it more than 12V? I suspect not, based on what I'm experiencing, but I know it's easy to be deluded by what you think is the high water mark.
Happy listening!
I'm hamstrung right now: I'm using a crummy Oppo DVD player, which was smoked the other night by a Creek CD player I gave to my girlfriend (she noticed the difference too, and I think feared I was going to try and reclaim said CD player).
I'm also sending the signal straight from the Oppo to the amp, being preamp-less at the moment, though I'm fervently hoping that a Superphon Revelation Basic Dual Mono will soon wend its way to chez soldersmoker. Anyway, a few Dayton caps ought to really make this thing sing, and I'm not hating the naked board as Tom Zé does his weird instrumentation/syncopation thang.Question: What kind of speakers are y'all using; what makes you think the Sure requires 24 to 30+ volts for this board? I find that 12V is plenty loud for my speakers, which are rated at 95dB/1m/1W. Or would a higher voltaic potential reap benefits other than mere sonic volume? Does the board not come into its own unless you're feeding it more than 12V? I suspect not, based on what I'm experiencing, but I know it's easy to be deluded by what you think is the high water mark.
Happy listening!
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