Hi Folks,
I currently am running a gainclone (based on LM3875 and BrianGT boards) and would like to try building a tube power amp kit. Can you recommend a kit that will give me better results than the gainclone I have? I'm looking for something that would equal a manufactured amp costing about $1500.
This will be used to drive fairly efficient speakers (visaton b200 in OB) and I need this amp to have a very strong bass (since it's a week point of OB).
I've never played with the tubes but a lot of people seem to be really into it, so I thought I'd try it.
Thanks in advance for your advice.
Cheers,
Rafal
I currently am running a gainclone (based on LM3875 and BrianGT boards) and would like to try building a tube power amp kit. Can you recommend a kit that will give me better results than the gainclone I have? I'm looking for something that would equal a manufactured amp costing about $1500.
This will be used to drive fairly efficient speakers (visaton b200 in OB) and I need this amp to have a very strong bass (since it's a week point of OB).
I've never played with the tubes but a lot of people seem to be really into it, so I thought I'd try it.
Thanks in advance for your advice.
Cheers,
Rafal
Hi Rafal
In principe this would not have to be a problem: a valve amp can produce bass, and including some tone controls or 'loudness' function on it, it could be even made to produce more bass... but the question is if you really want this. The B200 will never produce strong bass in a open baffle, as it can't move much air with it's 8" surface.
I do own a B200 too, built in OB. For music without bass (choir) I play them fullrange, but when I want some heavier music (as a classic concert) I turn on my dipole subs and a 12dB HP crossover at about 100Hz on the B200. This way I take the stress of bass and long excursions out of the B200, which plays wonderfully the octaves above 100Hz. I feel that without the crossover the B200 loses some qualities in its upper frequencies.
So, maybe a valve amp for the B200, and a dipole sub?
Erik
In principe this would not have to be a problem: a valve amp can produce bass, and including some tone controls or 'loudness' function on it, it could be even made to produce more bass... but the question is if you really want this. The B200 will never produce strong bass in a open baffle, as it can't move much air with it's 8" surface.
I do own a B200 too, built in OB. For music without bass (choir) I play them fullrange, but when I want some heavier music (as a classic concert) I turn on my dipole subs and a 12dB HP crossover at about 100Hz on the B200. This way I take the stress of bass and long excursions out of the B200, which plays wonderfully the octaves above 100Hz. I feel that without the crossover the B200 loses some qualities in its upper frequencies.
So, maybe a valve amp for the B200, and a dipole sub?
Erik
Hi Rafal
I started to build this speakers about one year ago when I still had some time, but did not quite finish them, yet. I attach an old picture...
Sub is dipole, a W frame, with 2x 18" inch PA sub which had the right parameters. Filtered on 100Hz, with a 24dB LR crossover, powered by a gainclone....and rattling a bit at (too) high volumes - have to fix that.
For the visaton a PP with EL519, which sounds quite nice. There is a ribbon mounted, but I never had it playing yet.
For further information on dipole subs I would go to the subwoofer forum or visit www.linkwitzlab.com
I hope someone jumps in with info on your request.
Erik
I started to build this speakers about one year ago when I still had some time, but did not quite finish them, yet. I attach an old picture...
Sub is dipole, a W frame, with 2x 18" inch PA sub which had the right parameters. Filtered on 100Hz, with a 24dB LR crossover, powered by a gainclone....and rattling a bit at (too) high volumes - have to fix that.
For the visaton a PP with EL519, which sounds quite nice. There is a ribbon mounted, but I never had it playing yet.
For further information on dipole subs I would go to the subwoofer forum or visit www.linkwitzlab.com
I hope someone jumps in with info on your request.
Erik
Attachments
Rafal,
Besides the BrianGT gainclone board you have, I have three other diy-ish amplifiers. These three amps all best the gainclone w/ my visaton b200 speakers. In no particular order:
- DIYParadise Charlize. I know, I know...not a tube amp. Still it's easy, inexpensive and drives the b200s great.
- Bottlehead S.E.X amp. Stock version bests the gainclone, plus works great as a dedicated headphone amplifier. Easy to build for around 350 dollars.
- Eli's 'El Cheapo' PP amplifer can be found here.El Cheapo thread here. I love mine. Jim Mcshane makes a kit of component parts, tubes, sockets, rca jacks, etc... available. You supply the chassis and the iron. For sub 500 dollars you could upgrade the output transformers and have a really fine amplifier. (I built mine w/ dynaclone output transformers and the amp has a very healthy low end...)
Good luck,
Scott.
Besides the BrianGT gainclone board you have, I have three other diy-ish amplifiers. These three amps all best the gainclone w/ my visaton b200 speakers. In no particular order:
- DIYParadise Charlize. I know, I know...not a tube amp. Still it's easy, inexpensive and drives the b200s great.
- Bottlehead S.E.X amp. Stock version bests the gainclone, plus works great as a dedicated headphone amplifier. Easy to build for around 350 dollars.
- Eli's 'El Cheapo' PP amplifer can be found here.El Cheapo thread here. I love mine. Jim Mcshane makes a kit of component parts, tubes, sockets, rca jacks, etc... available. You supply the chassis and the iron. For sub 500 dollars you could upgrade the output transformers and have a really fine amplifier. (I built mine w/ dynaclone output transformers and the amp has a very healthy low end...)
Good luck,
Scott.
I can't guarantee it will sound good but I've been working on an amp that should be quite cheap. It uses cheap Russian EL84-type tubes, the 6P14P, and either a 6DJ8 or a 6N23P. Should be easily sub 400 dollars, but it depends on which iron you want (Edcor makes 10W 8K a-a OPT's for 16 a pop, but I'll also be using the Z565)
scott_m said:
Scott, thanks for your suggestions. I was actually thinking of Charlize and I was wondering how it compared to my gainclone. It is dead easy to build and not too pricey. I also considered 41Hz AMP6 which is based on the same chip but requires more assembly ( a lot cheaper though). Which of these amps, would you say is the best mach for B200? Also if you were to rate them, which would be your 1st, 3nd and 3rd pick?
I will surely look into the tube amps but if the performance of Charlize iz simillar to the tube amps, maybe i should just give Charlize a go?
Rafal,
The Charlize is a step behind the S.E.X. amp. and the PP Dyanclone z565 'el cheapo' - however it is a step above the chip amp, and affordable, and easy to put together. The PP 'el cheapo' would give you more options for speakers down the road. The S.E.X. amp is a complete kit, easy to assemble, and WILL work when you're all done. (so will the 'el cheapo', but you'll have to figure out a few more steps on your own).
Scott.
The Charlize is a step behind the S.E.X. amp. and the PP Dyanclone z565 'el cheapo' - however it is a step above the chip amp, and affordable, and easy to put together. The PP 'el cheapo' would give you more options for speakers down the road. The S.E.X. amp is a complete kit, easy to assemble, and WILL work when you're all done. (so will the 'el cheapo', but you'll have to figure out a few more steps on your own).
Scott.
Do you guys have any other ideas if I stretch my budget to about $1000US? What level of a production amp would a $1000 kit equal to (price wise)?
I would like to, ideally get the whole kit with good instructions and I'd like to end up with about 35 to 50w/ch.
It would also be cool if I could tweak it down the road to furhter improve the performance.
Since I have asked this question originally, I have tried the Charlize amp, and it does sound very nice but I want more power (I am using a filter with my Visation B200 which lowers their sensitivity).
I would like to, ideally get the whole kit with good instructions and I'd like to end up with about 35 to 50w/ch.
It would also be cool if I could tweak it down the road to furhter improve the performance.
Since I have asked this question originally, I have tried the Charlize amp, and it does sound very nice but I want more power (I am using a filter with my Visation B200 which lowers their sensitivity).
Tube kit, $1000? I would buy Jim's El Cheapo pak, good transformers maybe James, www.euphoniaaudio.com a nice hardwood chassis ready to go from www.welbornelabs.com
. Push Pull 6aq5 would be fantastic, with great bass, and as someone said, provide more speaker opportunities. I find the 6aq5 to have a somewhat "tighter" sound than 6V6. In fact, I intend to build the el Cheapo this year exactly this way.
You would have several hundred left over. Active digital EQ alternatives Rafal: www.alesis.com have a couple interesting additions. Many are put off by the Behringer's relative complexity. So easy, even a...
. Push Pull 6aq5 would be fantastic, with great bass, and as someone said, provide more speaker opportunities. I find the 6aq5 to have a somewhat "tighter" sound than 6V6. In fact, I intend to build the el Cheapo this year exactly this way.
You would have several hundred left over. Active digital EQ alternatives Rafal: www.alesis.com have a couple interesting additions. Many are put off by the Behringer's relative complexity. So easy, even a...
If you want a kit, you could do Welborne DRD for a little more than your budget. http://welbornelabs.com/drd300b.htm This are great amps that rival commercial gear many times their price.
The other common suggestion is Bottlehead. Slightly less money, a little different technology -- depends if you think caps or an airgapped transformer is a bigger problem. http://www.bottlehead.com/et/adobespc/paramount/paramount.htm
Also, audio note: http://www.audionotekits.com/
and diy hifi supply: http://diyhifisupply.com/
But, so long as you know what you are doing, a non-kit will be a little cheaper. But it does allow more room problems.
The other common suggestion is Bottlehead. Slightly less money, a little different technology -- depends if you think caps or an airgapped transformer is a bigger problem. http://www.bottlehead.com/et/adobespc/paramount/paramount.htm
Also, audio note: http://www.audionotekits.com/
and diy hifi supply: http://diyhifisupply.com/
But, so long as you know what you are doing, a non-kit will be a little cheaper. But it does allow more room problems.
dmason said:Tube kit, $1000? I would buy Jim's El Cheapo pak, good transformers maybe James, www.euphoniaaudio.com a nice hardwood chassis ready to go from www.welbornelabs.com
. Push Pull 6aq5 would be fantastic, with great bass, and as someone said, provide more speaker opportunities. I find the 6aq5 to have a somewhat "tighter" sound than 6V6. In fact, I intend to build the el Cheapo this year exactly this way.
You would have several hundred left over. Active digital EQ alternatives Rafal: www.alesis.com have a couple interesting additions. Many are put off by the Behringer's relative complexity. So easy, even a...
How would Alesis compare sound wise to Behringer?
I would like something that is the least intrusive on the signal.
Thanks in advance
I have no idea whether it is "better," its design is newer, Alesis is a step or two up the ladder from Behringer, it has less bells and whistles, and if you kept the signal digital, ie use SPDIF and a DAC, it shouldnt do anything at all, to the signal. They shouldnt sound like anything at all.
Alesis has been around a loooooong time, and always puts out a product that is worthwhile, and represents value. If I didn't have a Rane RPM, I would choose the Alesis for simple room correction and bass lift, for OB. It is a digital graphic EQ, with memory. I like that.
Alesis has been around a loooooong time, and always puts out a product that is worthwhile, and represents value. If I didn't have a Rane RPM, I would choose the Alesis for simple room correction and bass lift, for OB. It is a digital graphic EQ, with memory. I like that.
I thought I qualified my remarks, somewhat, with use of the word,
"shouldn't."
My prior comment, "I haven't heard it," also dis-qualifies, my ability to weigh in with any kind of opinion, other than on the face of it, it looks as though it is worth investigating. I have owned Alesis synthesizers, and their product and support are outstanding.
In my own opinion, EVERYTHING changes the sound, always. Even the premium-priced Rane RPM, whose designers have gone to pains to ameliorate that; and argue that well implemented digital circuitry --shouldn't-- ....
"shouldn't."
My prior comment, "I haven't heard it," also dis-qualifies, my ability to weigh in with any kind of opinion, other than on the face of it, it looks as though it is worth investigating. I have owned Alesis synthesizers, and their product and support are outstanding.
In my own opinion, EVERYTHING changes the sound, always. Even the premium-priced Rane RPM, whose designers have gone to pains to ameliorate that; and argue that well implemented digital circuitry --shouldn't-- ....
dmason said:
I know this is getting a bit off topic, but are there things I should be aware of if I'm truing to equilize my Visation B200 and an active sub? Ideally I'd like to put in a high pass filter to limit the LF extension of the full range drivers, but thet would require either a passive network or an axtive crossover. I wish there was a device (around $399US) that combined a digital equilizer and an activer crossover (even a simple one)or a high pass filter and sub out).
Now, back on topic...
Have you guys tried / heard Dynaco kits (like ST70 or Mark III)? Would that be a vaiable option? A friend of mine is very excited about building the Mark III
After reading your post and having heard the b200. I could not recommend the dynacos It will just not deliver to the level that I think you are looking for. I have an ST70. If lower power will do the Bottlehead or the Welborne are both excellent. I have a Welborne myself and get to listen to the Bottlehead amp on a regular basis.
If you are looking for more power . I highly recommend you take a long look at the Elle from DIY hifi supply, (a fellow Canadian).
http://www.diyhifisupply.com/diyhs_ella.htm
It is a hell of a lot of amp for the money You even get a remote
I have no connection, yada, yada, just like to put in a word for the good guys…John
If you are looking for more power . I highly recommend you take a long look at the Elle from DIY hifi supply, (a fellow Canadian).
http://www.diyhifisupply.com/diyhs_ella.htm
It is a hell of a lot of amp for the money You even get a remote
I have no connection, yada, yada, just like to put in a word for the good guys…John
There are more affordable kits and built amps to check out at Gabe's Amps 'n' Stuff. I've neither heard nor seen his stuff, but he has several amps at very attractive prices that ought to work well with a B200. Gabe posts here occasionally, maybe he'll chime in.
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