beppe61,
Generally a good two way design can easily hit the 50 - 20,000Hz mark with no problem if you use at least a 5 inch mid/bass driver. A 6 or 7 inch driver would be a little better as you could easily cover the 40 - 20,000Hz range depending on the driver and the alignment.
In my opinion the 2 - 3 inch dome midranges are only specialty devices and only sound good in the upper midrange lower treble region. They are effective in a three way system where you want to have a lower crossover point say in the 1000 - 1600 Hz range. It is better to think of them as a low range tweeter than a mid/bass driver.
I am planning on using a dome midrange in a four way system so that I can utilize 6db phase perfect crossovers. For a standard 3 way system you would be better served to use a larger bass or subwoofer driver to get better low end.
Unless the room you are listening to music or movies in is very small or you are on a very tight budget or have very little space I would recommend a three way with a 12 or 10 inch bass driver, a 6-7 inch mid/bass driver and a good quality 1 inch tweeter.
Crossover regions at about 100 Hz and 2000-2500 Hz with 12 db slopes.
I personally think that anyone building a good sounding three way with only three drivers should try to build something like the Wilson Sophia. If you have the mid/bass driver in a pyramidal shaped cabinet that is seperated from the bass driver energy and it has lots of room to breath you can have a critically damped mid/bass alignment and you will get the best timbre quality. And the non parallel walls help the sound quality a lot in the mid/bass region.
Generally a good two way design can easily hit the 50 - 20,000Hz mark with no problem if you use at least a 5 inch mid/bass driver. A 6 or 7 inch driver would be a little better as you could easily cover the 40 - 20,000Hz range depending on the driver and the alignment.
In my opinion the 2 - 3 inch dome midranges are only specialty devices and only sound good in the upper midrange lower treble region. They are effective in a three way system where you want to have a lower crossover point say in the 1000 - 1600 Hz range. It is better to think of them as a low range tweeter than a mid/bass driver.
I am planning on using a dome midrange in a four way system so that I can utilize 6db phase perfect crossovers. For a standard 3 way system you would be better served to use a larger bass or subwoofer driver to get better low end.
Unless the room you are listening to music or movies in is very small or you are on a very tight budget or have very little space I would recommend a three way with a 12 or 10 inch bass driver, a 6-7 inch mid/bass driver and a good quality 1 inch tweeter.
Crossover regions at about 100 Hz and 2000-2500 Hz with 12 db slopes.
I personally think that anyone building a good sounding three way with only three drivers should try to build something like the Wilson Sophia. If you have the mid/bass driver in a pyramidal shaped cabinet that is seperated from the bass driver energy and it has lots of room to breath you can have a critically damped mid/bass alignment and you will get the best timbre quality. And the non parallel walls help the sound quality a lot in the mid/bass region.
Hezz said:beppe61,
Generally a good two way design can easily hit the 50 - 20,000Hz mark with no problem if you use at least a 5 inch mid/bass driver. A 6 or 7 inch driver would be a little better as you could easily cover the 40 - 20,000Hz range depending on the driver and the alignment.
...
Unless the room you are listening to music or movies in is very small or you are on a very tight budget or have very little space I would recommend a three way with a 12 or 10 inch bass driver, a 6-7 inch mid/bass driver and a good quality 1 inch tweeter.
Crossover regions at about 100 Hz and 2000-2500 Hz with 12 db slopes.
I personally think that anyone building a good sounding three way with only three drivers should try to build something like the Wilson Sophia.
...
Dear Mr. Hezz,
Thank you so much for your extremely kind and valuable reply.
Your advice sounds very good to me.
I will study more these Wilson Sophias and their drivers choice.
Maybe a very cheap clone.
Just another question.
You say: " Unless the room you are listening to music or movies in is very small ...".
My room is 4.5x6 meters (ceiling at 3 meter).
What does this mean?
I heard that there is a relation between low frequency reproduction and the dimensions of the listening room but I failed to understand correctly.
Could you tell me something more?
Thank you very much.
Kind regards,
Beppe
Beppe61,
The lowest frequencies are reinforced in most listening rooms unless the room is very large. (Auditorium size).
So the smaller the room the more bass reinforcement it has. Your room is pretty good sized and I think that a three way with a good 10 inch woofer would be just about right. If the room is connected to another space through a large opening I would go with a 12 inch woofer.
Then you can get 30 - 20,000 response or better.
The Wison Sophia would be relatively easy to clone and it's design would work well with any drivers by just adjusting the dimensions a little bit.
If you shoot for the lower cabinet to be about 2 - 2.5 cubic feet then you can get some really good bass extension with a driver that is meant to work in a box of that size. Look for a driver with a Qt of around .35 and a Fs of between 20 and 30 Hz. For a vented alignment.
The lowest frequencies are reinforced in most listening rooms unless the room is very large. (Auditorium size).
So the smaller the room the more bass reinforcement it has. Your room is pretty good sized and I think that a three way with a good 10 inch woofer would be just about right. If the room is connected to another space through a large opening I would go with a 12 inch woofer.
Then you can get 30 - 20,000 response or better.
The Wison Sophia would be relatively easy to clone and it's design would work well with any drivers by just adjusting the dimensions a little bit.
If you shoot for the lower cabinet to be about 2 - 2.5 cubic feet then you can get some really good bass extension with a driver that is meant to work in a box of that size. Look for a driver with a Qt of around .35 and a Fs of between 20 and 30 Hz. For a vented alignment.
Cotdt
I dont' know any indipendent review/measurement of this accuton. I have only a direct experience of the c79 and c12 but I have heard the C 90T6 on a commercial speaker: a 2 ways Kharma speaker, it sounds very similar to the c79 but can be used in a two ways and have a higher sensibility. Is hard to describe the sound of this driver: it is veeery "fast", neutral and have a particular ability to show the "attack" of the sound (read the stereophile review of the martens design monk).
I dont' know any indipendent review/measurement of this accuton. I have only a direct experience of the c79 and c12 but I have heard the C 90T6 on a commercial speaker: a 2 ways Kharma speaker, it sounds very similar to the c79 but can be used in a two ways and have a higher sensibility. Is hard to describe the sound of this driver: it is veeery "fast", neutral and have a particular ability to show the "attack" of the sound (read the stereophile review of the martens design monk).
Hi beppe61,
perdone me, instead looking at Sophia's rewiews why you do not
go to listen it ( expecially before to clone it)?
Better again, choice the "commercial" speaker you love much more and after the DIY community will give you bests suggestions.
Only my opinion, of course.
Cheers,
Inertial
perdone me, instead looking at Sophia's rewiews why you do not
go to listen it ( expecially before to clone it)?
Better again, choice the "commercial" speaker you love much more and after the DIY community will give you bests suggestions.
Only my opinion, of course.
Cheers,
Inertial
inertial said:> Hi beppe61,
perdone me, instead looking at Sophia's rewiews why you do not go to listen it ( expecially before to clone it)?
- Hi Inertial,
actually some years ago at an audio show I had the opportunity to listen to a WATT system + sub (Puppy ?).
I like it very very much indeed.
I am sure that the Sophias are great speakers (17.500 euro the list price in Italy !).
I also think it is not that easy to listen to them.
The sellers ask which kind of money I intend to spend and then they direct me to the boom-boxes department.
You do not like them ? Have you heard them ?
> Better again, choice the "commercial" speaker you love much more and after the DIY community will give you bests suggestions.
Only my opinion, of course.
- Very good advice. I really think this is the best strategy.
Actually I bought my current speakers (old Dynaudio MPS110 and Recital) just on the basis of the brand's reputation, without even listening to them (well, the price was so low that ...).
And now I face the problem to drive them adequately (not an easy task indeed. They need very powerful amps).
Cheers,
Inertial
- Cheers to you
beppe
inertial said:Hi beppe61,
Oh yes I'm familiar with Sophia!
I have listened it at home of my friend a month ago with Teac p2-s - wadia- Pass x1-Pass x 250.
I'm sorry but IMO they do not sound.
(And sure I love Pass amplifiers and big wadia D/A....)
Just my opinion.
Cheers,
Inertial
Hi Inertial,
thank you for your kind and valuable opinion.
To be honest I never heard them.
As I said I heard a Watt+Puppy system (do not remember the version anyway).
It was driven by a full Krell system.
It seemed to me exceptionally dynamic and with an astonishing soundstage reproduction.
Of course this is my humble opinion as well.
One thing: components matching and room treatments I think are also very important with these kind of full range speakers.
I also think that if Wilson is worldwide famous it cannot be only marketing hype, don't you think so ?
I read for instance that at the first presentation at one CES the WATT received unanimous praise.
Actually Mr. Wilson was there to sell CDs and instead sold a lot of speakers !
Any Wilson expert out there ?
Kind regards,
beppe
beppe61 said:inertial said:Hi beppe61,
Oh yes I'm familiar with Sophia!
I have listened it at home of my friend a month ago with Teac p2-s - wadia- Pass x1-Pass x 250.
I'm sorry but IMO they do not sound.
(And sure I love Pass amplifiers and big wadia D/A....)
Just my opinion.
Cheers,
Inertial
Hi Inertial,
thank you for your kind and valuable opinion.
To be honest I never heard them.
As I said I heard a Watt+Puppy system (do not remember the version anyway).
It was driven by a full Krell system.
It seemed to me exceptionally dynamic and with an astonishing soundstage reproduction.
Of course this is my humble opinion as well.
One thing: components matching and room treatments I think are also very important with these kind of full range speakers.
I also think that if Wilson is worldwide famous it cannot be only marketing hype, don't you think so ?
I read for instance that at the first presentation at one CES the WATT received unanimous praise.
Actually Mr. Wilson was there to sell CDs and instead sold a lot of speakers !
Any Wilson expert out there ?
Any Wilson speaker clone ?
Kind regards,
beppe
inertial said:Dear Beppe61,
do not understimate marketing and rewiew's power.........
For the rest your ear is the only judge.
Cheers,
Inertial
P.S. : Are you familiar with Bartolomeo Aloia's loudspeakers?
Italians also produce very impressive speakers, don't you think?
Dear Inertial,
I do not know if the discussion would interest the American friends here so I would take the liberty of writing to you privately. if you do not mind of course.
I would like to get your opinion on two or three general problems.
Please let me know.
Regards,
beppe
Im suprised the Peerless HDS drivers haven't been discussed more. The response curve shows a driver that should be fairly easy to design a XO for, distortion measurements are good (I think it was the 850439 that LInkwitz tested), and the price isn't bad. Probably similar to the XG18 in terms of its virtues.
Im not sure how the wilson spekers got brought into this but if there being held up as an example just keep in mind that thay are far from universally liked. Personally I dont like what i've heard.
Im not sure how the wilson spekers got brought into this but if there being held up as an example just keep in mind that thay are far from universally liked. Personally I dont like what i've heard.
There is no reason in the world to make an exact copy of the Wilson's and that was not the heart of my suggestion.
My point is that the Wilson Sophia is a very good cabinet configuration for a three way three driver system.
Regardless of the cabinet configuration the DIY speaker designer can voice the speaker as he / she likes by choosing the drivers and crossover topology.
Trying to make an exact clone does not make any sense unless you are particularly smitten by the speaker.
My point is that the Wilson Sophia is a very good cabinet configuration for a three way three driver system.
Regardless of the cabinet configuration the DIY speaker designer can voice the speaker as he / she likes by choosing the drivers and crossover topology.
Trying to make an exact clone does not make any sense unless you are particularly smitten by the speaker.
Hello Guys,
Let's change this discussion to 80-2500Hz since in a Two-way bookshelf, you need to have the woofer be able to cross low enough for the subwoofer. Two-way w/sub are a lot more popular and convienent as compared to three-way.
For three ways, more important is 250-2500Hz performance rather than 150-3000Hz since the subwoofer can cross quite high when 3-way orientation is used. So let's focus on those.
Let's change this discussion to 80-2500Hz since in a Two-way bookshelf, you need to have the woofer be able to cross low enough for the subwoofer. Two-way w/sub are a lot more popular and convienent as compared to three-way.
For three ways, more important is 250-2500Hz performance rather than 150-3000Hz since the subwoofer can cross quite high when 3-way orientation is used. So let's focus on those.
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