Thanks for the feedback. Parts do get out of date, but that's not our fault. In the future, user editable BOMs with comments and recommendations for part substitutions is something I want to have implemented diyAudio-wide (not just for our stuff). There's a few things in the pipeline on that front. Having a way to suggest improvements to boards (neatly stored in a separate side-thread / mechanism) is also something we'll do. There's a whole bunch of things that will change in the next 6 months as we upgrade the forum, the store, and build guides to new, modern platforms with much more functionality than they have currently.
If anyone has specific questions, please post the specific questions here and friendly and knowledgeable DIYers will provide assistance. I'll get the BOM for these boards updated if that is now required.
Retain a corrected BOM for the original PCB and show a new BOM for any subsequent PCB/s.
The Wiki were a way of keeping group buys in order and the same wiki or wiki links gave the history of modifications.
One just read through the wiki to identify which version applied to one's own PCBs.
This worked very well for the Krell Klone and a few others I was following at that time.
Eureka
At last I have blinking led's, using 2n222's for Q1,2,3,5,6, one is constant the other blinks for about 5 seconds followed by constant when the relay closes.
Shame about the BOM, however I lay no blame with the chaps involved with this project. this experience has just reiterated something I know I should do, READ THE SPEC SHEET.
At last I have blinking led's, using 2n222's for Q1,2,3,5,6, one is constant the other blinks for about 5 seconds followed by constant when the relay closes.
Shame about the BOM, however I lay no blame with the chaps involved with this project. this experience has just reiterated something I know I should do, READ THE SPEC SHEET.
Hi, Ive just built one of these for my not yet completed F4.
I have just read through this thread and I was wondering. (Ive probably missed the answer somewhere).
I am initally going to run this as a straight forward stereo amp. At some point i may well decide to build another and turn these into balanced monoblocks. There was some mention half way through the F4 build guide questioning the suitability of these boards and i followed a link to (i think) an aleph J build but that was using a totally different design. So..
1) If i use a separate transformer for this board, would it in fact be ok to run the amp balanced with this board on the output? I cant see any reason why that would have been a problem as each side still sees the same type of signal. They just happen to be the same out of phase.
2) Would I connect the Ground on the Power input of the speaker protect board to the chassis ground and would that need to be via another cl60 like the psu ground. There was mention of leaving the speaker board psu floating but that doesnt sound like a good idea to me.
3) Dont these amps mind having a very high impedance/open circuit on the output when the board hasn't turned on yet? Or do you just have to make sure your not sending any signal to the input.
Thanks.
I have just read through this thread and I was wondering. (Ive probably missed the answer somewhere).
I am initally going to run this as a straight forward stereo amp. At some point i may well decide to build another and turn these into balanced monoblocks. There was some mention half way through the F4 build guide questioning the suitability of these boards and i followed a link to (i think) an aleph J build but that was using a totally different design. So..
1) If i use a separate transformer for this board, would it in fact be ok to run the amp balanced with this board on the output? I cant see any reason why that would have been a problem as each side still sees the same type of signal. They just happen to be the same out of phase.
2) Would I connect the Ground on the Power input of the speaker protect board to the chassis ground and would that need to be via another cl60 like the psu ground. There was mention of leaving the speaker board psu floating but that doesnt sound like a good idea to me.
3) Dont these amps mind having a very high impedance/open circuit on the output when the board hasn't turned on yet? Or do you just have to make sure your not sending any signal to the input.
Thanks.
Oh yeah, Id just made the EBC mistake too even after google whacking the part number (KSC945) as the google search came up up with a diagram for EBC and the Datasheet was showing the KSA. I think the legs are too short now to be able to twist. Nevermind, I need to make another list of parts.....
A soft start is just a resistor in the primary feed to limit the starting current.
After a time delay the resistor can be shorted out (bypassed) with a pair of contacts, manually or automatically.
The soft start does NOT switch on, nor does it switch off, the transformer. A separate On/Off switch does that duty.
The (automatic) control circuit is the part that needs a low voltage supply. This control circuit triggers the relay that bypasses the resistor.
note that a relay has two quite distinct circuits.
a.) the coil that takes a control current/voltage. This can be a few DC volts or can be mains voltage and some even work with an AC trigger current. Most tend to use 12Vdc or 5Vdc relay coils
b.) the contacts pass the operating current to the load. This circuit is isolated from the coil. Many will show both AC and DC ratings. These are generally different.
After a time delay the resistor can be shorted out (bypassed) with a pair of contacts, manually or automatically.
The soft start does NOT switch on, nor does it switch off, the transformer. A separate On/Off switch does that duty.
The (automatic) control circuit is the part that needs a low voltage supply. This control circuit triggers the relay that bypasses the resistor.
note that a relay has two quite distinct circuits.
a.) the coil that takes a control current/voltage. This can be a few DC volts or can be mains voltage and some even work with an AC trigger current. Most tend to use 12Vdc or 5Vdc relay coils
b.) the contacts pass the operating current to the load. This circuit is isolated from the coil. Many will show both AC and DC ratings. These are generally different.
Hi,
This is my first post here and hope this thread is still active. I have read both V2 and V3 threads. If I understand correctly, the V2 version used ECB pin-out for all transistors except Q4 where as V3 version uses EBC pin out for all transistors. Am I correct in my understanding? Its not explicitly mentioned anywhere, hence thought to get it clarified.
Best regards,
Octave1audio
This is my first post here and hope this thread is still active. I have read both V2 and V3 threads. If I understand correctly, the V2 version used ECB pin-out for all transistors except Q4 where as V3 version uses EBC pin out for all transistors. Am I correct in my understanding? Its not explicitly mentioned anywhere, hence thought to get it clarified.
Best regards,
Octave1audio
can anyone inform me if the following omron relay (G8P-1C4P) will work in place of the relay as per the BoM?
https://www.components.omron.com/components/web/pdflib.nsf/0/16C827D3F9682ADB85257201007DD4DC/$file/G8PT_1214.pdf
I have many 5 volt versions of the same and wanted to use. I can mount the relay someplace else in the chassis and fly wires to respective pads on protection pcb.
https://www.components.omron.com/components/web/pdflib.nsf/0/16C827D3F9682ADB85257201007DD4DC/$file/G8PT_1214.pdf
I have many 5 volt versions of the same and wanted to use. I can mount the relay someplace else in the chassis and fly wires to respective pads on protection pcb.
Hi Guys,
I'm using a 800VA - 0-45V X2 XFMR to power my DIY AB "Honey Badger". I'm a little confused on the relay selection.
Is the 12VDC relay sufficiently capable to handle this input?
Notes:
Using V3 PSU
Using V3 Soft Start
Using V3 Speaker delay Protector
Using V2.4 DIY AB Honey Badgers(2 PCBs)
I'm using a 800VA - 0-45V X2 XFMR to power my DIY AB "Honey Badger". I'm a little confused on the relay selection.
Is the 12VDC relay sufficiently capable to handle this input?
Notes:
Using V3 PSU
Using V3 Soft Start
Using V3 Speaker delay Protector
Using V2.4 DIY AB Honey Badgers(2 PCBs)
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Are you asking about a starting relay, or a soft start bypass relay?
The duties are VERY DIFFERENT !
The mains ON /OFF switch must be rated for the full transformer loading.
Your 800VA 110/120Vac transformer can pull 8Aac from the mains. You need a 125Vac, or 250Vac & >=10Aac switch/relay to turn this ON/OFF. This switch will see BIG currents at start up, possibly >100Apk
The soft start relay can be rated lower. Still 125/250Vac, but the current rating is after the transformer has started. It never sees the full start up current. An 8Aac relay would probably last forever. This bypass relay NEVER sees the spark of a switch OFF. It's this OFF operation that wears out a switch contact and in the extreme can weld the contacts together.
You may find that a small 2Aac 250Vac relay would do for the soft start bypass duty, but I can't recommend you go that low.
The duties are VERY DIFFERENT !
The mains ON /OFF switch must be rated for the full transformer loading.
Your 800VA 110/120Vac transformer can pull 8Aac from the mains. You need a 125Vac, or 250Vac & >=10Aac switch/relay to turn this ON/OFF. This switch will see BIG currents at start up, possibly >100Apk
The soft start relay can be rated lower. Still 125/250Vac, but the current rating is after the transformer has started. It never sees the full start up current. An 8Aac relay would probably last forever. This bypass relay NEVER sees the spark of a switch OFF. It's this OFF operation that wears out a switch contact and in the extreme can weld the contacts together.
You may find that a small 2Aac 250Vac relay would do for the soft start bypass duty, but I can't recommend you go that low.
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Thanks Andrew.
I was asking about the 2 DC protect relays, but now that you mention it... all three relays
I think I misunderstood the BOM.I just zoomed in on the build pics on the forum here, and it looks like the relays used are rated for 277VAC, 10 A. This should meet your recommendations yes? (G5la-14-c.f.). Unfortunately they have been discontinued.
I'm sure I could find an alternate, but not sure about fitment to the pcb's...
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The DC speaker protect relays have a different duty again.
They need a DC rating for your supply rail voltage.
It is DC failure that relay might fail with.
A 20Vdc or 30Vdc rating on 50Vdc supply rails is an incident waiting to happen.
As a delayed speaker connect (and disconnect) you can get away with a high AC voltage rating. That is what is being switched when the amplifier is behaving itself.
They need a DC rating for your supply rail voltage.
It is DC failure that relay might fail with.
A 20Vdc or 30Vdc rating on 50Vdc supply rails is an incident waiting to happen.
As a delayed speaker connect (and disconnect) you can get away with a high AC voltage rating. That is what is being switched when the amplifier is behaving itself.
Okay, I just had a quick read through the SS guide.
From what I understand:
115VAC(Mains) will be hooked directly into the Soft-Start, and controlled by a "Mains Switch - On/Off"; The output of which will power the primaries of my Toroidal XFMR.
The secondaries of the XFMR will feed 1x 0-45V input off of one winding to the speaker delay/ DC protect circuit, while simultainiously using 2X 0-45V direct to the Honey Badger's.
So: 1) The Relay on the Soft Start PCB will need to be rated to handle the 120VAC @ 10A draw from the XFMR (leaving 2A saftey margin; leaving surge buffer as well)
2) Both Relays on the Speaker Delay/ DC protector should be rated for 45VDC (say 50VDC?) which will be supplying each Rail with the 0-45V(63V)
Am I doing alright so far?
From what I understand:
115VAC(Mains) will be hooked directly into the Soft-Start, and controlled by a "Mains Switch - On/Off"; The output of which will power the primaries of my Toroidal XFMR.
The secondaries of the XFMR will feed 1x 0-45V input off of one winding to the speaker delay/ DC protect circuit, while simultainiously using 2X 0-45V direct to the Honey Badger's.
So: 1) The Relay on the Soft Start PCB will need to be rated to handle the 120VAC @ 10A draw from the XFMR (leaving 2A saftey margin; leaving surge buffer as well)
2) Both Relays on the Speaker Delay/ DC protector should be rated for 45VDC (say 50VDC?) which will be supplying each Rail with the 0-45V(63V)
Am I doing alright so far?