Good to find you...ATTENTION!.... i made measurements of power.
I was damned, because was distorting with 20 to 30 watts peak power.
So, i decided to make some changes, the peak power meter, having its own load resistor, and some series resistor to the Philips speaker...this way.... power was developed over the smoking resistor...and one small part of audio was going to speaker...this way, speaker distortion was not more possible....if i could hear distortion, this time, only the amplifier could be the guilty.
Was happy!.... 100 watts peak without distortion...and no more volume to be increased!......this is around 60 watts RMS each channel, both were driving....and the power consumption that was written in the amplifier back panel was not so wrong.... 125 watts consumption!
hehe.... Philips used cheap speaker.... it cannot hold the bass....but amplifier did not distorted.
So, i used my 100 watts, 15 inches woofer...and a very small distortion with full volume
This small System is full of power and good sound too.
Carlos
I was damned, because was distorting with 20 to 30 watts peak power.
So, i decided to make some changes, the peak power meter, having its own load resistor, and some series resistor to the Philips speaker...this way.... power was developed over the smoking resistor...and one small part of audio was going to speaker...this way, speaker distortion was not more possible....if i could hear distortion, this time, only the amplifier could be the guilty.
Was happy!.... 100 watts peak without distortion...and no more volume to be increased!......this is around 60 watts RMS each channel, both were driving....and the power consumption that was written in the amplifier back panel was not so wrong.... 125 watts consumption!
hehe.... Philips used cheap speaker.... it cannot hold the bass....but amplifier did not distorted.
So, i used my 100 watts, 15 inches woofer...and a very small distortion with full volume
This small System is full of power and good sound too.
Carlos
Attachments
Meter was adjusted to 15.5 volts AC RMS to indicate 100 watts Peak
That voltage was indicated alike Zero VU metering... a little above the mid scale, where those meters are more precise.
And the voltage was 60 hertz.... over 4 ohms resistor....
The test frequency used was 60 hertz too, and after confirmed with music signal.
100 Watts peak!, no doubts, both channels driving...and 125 watts consumption specified.
regards,
Carlos
That voltage was indicated alike Zero VU metering... a little above the mid scale, where those meters are more precise.
And the voltage was 60 hertz.... over 4 ohms resistor....
The test frequency used was 60 hertz too, and after confirmed with music signal.
100 Watts peak!, no doubts, both channels driving...and 125 watts consumption specified.
regards,
Carlos
Well Mike, let me dream a little bit, and you came with that terrible reality.
Yes.... speaker is a very complex load, and resistor is an easy load....but we can forget...for a while...hehe.... to be happy!
I worked very well with the big speaker..... distorted much less...so....the biggest guilty is the speaker...always that "piston"....aaaaaagh!...i hate speakers!
regards,
Carlos
Yes.... speaker is a very complex load, and resistor is an easy load....but we can forget...for a while...hehe.... to be happy!
I worked very well with the big speaker..... distorted much less...so....the biggest guilty is the speaker...always that "piston"....aaaaaagh!...i hate speakers!
regards,
Carlos
Carlos,
Very interesting. With careful study, it should be possible to learn all the basics of Class D from your posts!!
I have some UcD180s on order from Jan-Peter, should arrive this week. Can't say when I will build them up for a good listen; as always time is the issue. But I have the infrastructure to do it well, and will do a comparison with the AKSAs, both 55W and 100W. I have an open mind on this, no bias either way. Interestingly as a young man I was captivated by Clive Sinclair's Brit PWM amplifiers, so in many ways, there is nothing new under the sun!
I am especially impressed by the simulations which indicate low order harmonic distortion, and, as Michael remarks, nulling of higher level distortion. This accords with output devices being used as binary rather than linear transconductance devices; On or off, as long as it is clean switching, eliminates the distortion issues of the transfer function. My one concern is the effect of rail voltage variations, which could lead to H3 and H5.
Cheers,
Hugh
Very interesting. With careful study, it should be possible to learn all the basics of Class D from your posts!!
I have some UcD180s on order from Jan-Peter, should arrive this week. Can't say when I will build them up for a good listen; as always time is the issue. But I have the infrastructure to do it well, and will do a comparison with the AKSAs, both 55W and 100W. I have an open mind on this, no bias either way. Interestingly as a young man I was captivated by Clive Sinclair's Brit PWM amplifiers, so in many ways, there is nothing new under the sun!
I am especially impressed by the simulations which indicate low order harmonic distortion, and, as Michael remarks, nulling of higher level distortion. This accords with output devices being used as binary rather than linear transconductance devices; On or off, as long as it is clean switching, eliminates the distortion issues of the transfer function. My one concern is the effect of rail voltage variations, which could lead to H3 and H5.
Cheers,
Hugh
Good Hugh, your open mind is great, as you are open to those "new" things!
Having some opinion about the class D sonics, and capturing the defects that i am already finding here or there, tell me or tell us how you feel hearing those amplifiers.
In special, i am interested in the defects i am perceiving...it has impressive qualities and some subtile defects, that may put it out of the High Fidelity team.
Wainting, your opinion, as Mateus could heard my model yesterday near New York City, and start to have some wine and did not informed his first impressions about...he will tell me what he think today....but this wine are showing me that he was shocked, do not know with good impression or deceptive feelings.
My Sister, one close Friend and 9 from 16 Club guys already have Class D, and the discussion will be about that reproduction.
Carlos
Having some opinion about the class D sonics, and capturing the defects that i am already finding here or there, tell me or tell us how you feel hearing those amplifiers.
In special, i am interested in the defects i am perceiving...it has impressive qualities and some subtile defects, that may put it out of the High Fidelity team.
Wainting, your opinion, as Mateus could heard my model yesterday near New York City, and start to have some wine and did not informed his first impressions about...he will tell me what he think today....but this wine are showing me that he was shocked, do not know with good impression or deceptive feelings.
My Sister, one close Friend and 9 from 16 Club guys already have Class D, and the discussion will be about that reproduction.
Carlos
@AKSA:
Please do compare them, i've read lots of good things on class-d, but comparisons are hardly made (and when they are made, of course you'll be biased towards your self-made amp)
Since you also made you AKSA's, you'll be very neutral - i'm looking towards your comparison.
i should get my modules today, and i'll start building in my free time. i'll be testing on old philips FB825 speakers first, then when I trust the amp, test on my B&W N804's. Comparison will be to a mid-fi Yamaha DSP-A2 receiver.
@Destroyer X:
What defects are you hearing, would you care to share your impressions?
Later!
Please do compare them, i've read lots of good things on class-d, but comparisons are hardly made (and when they are made, of course you'll be biased towards your self-made amp)
Since you also made you AKSA's, you'll be very neutral - i'm looking towards your comparison.
i should get my modules today, and i'll start building in my free time. i'll be testing on old philips FB825 speakers first, then when I trust the amp, test on my B&W N804's. Comparison will be to a mid-fi Yamaha DSP-A2 receiver.
@Destroyer X:
What defects are you hearing, would you care to share your impressions?
Later!
Antwerp, my test friends are "on strike" related comparisons, half them jumped to...
Half of them jumped to class D.... and the other half not....but the problem is, those ones that remain are not the older and better evaluators.
A figth start because use of our club to Sexual meetings...and this is against rules, as if that kind of thing was discovered, our wives will lost confidence on us.... only one is enougth to burn all guy's image
They want to make some speaker research and evaluation, as they think speaker is something that is needed.... i agree with them
Yamaha DSP-A2 is really a beautifull semi complementary output amplifier...with wonderfull 100 watts each channel.... 1000 dollars pretty and good unit...maybe one or two condensers reduced in value in the power will make it even better in highs.
I have a good friend, Herr Bittner from Gutersloh that have one piece of jewellery as yours.
I have been hearing the class D, the Philips one, and i perceive, despite of clear, very clear, focused and detailed highs, it shows me some muffled characteristic.... alike some velvet covering the tweeter...or, speaker out of alignment with your ears.
In my mind, this can be result of high frequency roll off....the -3dB may be around 16K..... and this normally cut some "sense of reality".... some natural sound is damaged.... as we do not hear, as sound...we have not the decoded sound in our conscience, we have some brain input related frequencies higher than that....as reception ear cells are been hitted and sending electrical impulses to our brain.... not heard sound, but present sound...existance of something....well, this is subjective, but i believe that people extended to 100 Kilohertz their amplifiers responses, not only to have better wave shape in 10 Khz, that sub-product may exist too.
And i have not that in my philips....i was thinking my drivers, and i changed to Sony drivers that have wonderfull highs.....and nothing happened...... i increased condenser value.....negative.
So, not all class D, as i suppose may be others doing better job, mine is 500 Khz oscilator...maybe those tripath with variable frequencies, reaching 700Khz can make better job.
Someone strange with treble.... and i am not sure if i am rigth or wrong...i am just hearing and trying to deduce what is happening.
Yes, i intend to make comparison with AKSA, as that amplifier is some "Magic Mistery tour"....but i want those guys back to club first, as those that remains are not the ones i have better confidence.
I do not vote anymore, as they say that i am AKSA internally, they dislike Hugh because of Jellows...i am impeached to vote, when Aksa is tested....when they had. made tests .. and they could not dennie Aksa as winner...they were crazy to kick Hugh "S"...they could not...they are waiting that pleasure....they say i like Hugh too much...they dislike that, as i know hugh one year and i know them for 10 years more or less.
Carlos
Half of them jumped to class D.... and the other half not....but the problem is, those ones that remain are not the older and better evaluators.
A figth start because use of our club to Sexual meetings...and this is against rules, as if that kind of thing was discovered, our wives will lost confidence on us.... only one is enougth to burn all guy's image
They want to make some speaker research and evaluation, as they think speaker is something that is needed.... i agree with them
Yamaha DSP-A2 is really a beautifull semi complementary output amplifier...with wonderfull 100 watts each channel.... 1000 dollars pretty and good unit...maybe one or two condensers reduced in value in the power will make it even better in highs.
I have a good friend, Herr Bittner from Gutersloh that have one piece of jewellery as yours.
I have been hearing the class D, the Philips one, and i perceive, despite of clear, very clear, focused and detailed highs, it shows me some muffled characteristic.... alike some velvet covering the tweeter...or, speaker out of alignment with your ears.
In my mind, this can be result of high frequency roll off....the -3dB may be around 16K..... and this normally cut some "sense of reality".... some natural sound is damaged.... as we do not hear, as sound...we have not the decoded sound in our conscience, we have some brain input related frequencies higher than that....as reception ear cells are been hitted and sending electrical impulses to our brain.... not heard sound, but present sound...existance of something....well, this is subjective, but i believe that people extended to 100 Kilohertz their amplifiers responses, not only to have better wave shape in 10 Khz, that sub-product may exist too.
And i have not that in my philips....i was thinking my drivers, and i changed to Sony drivers that have wonderfull highs.....and nothing happened...... i increased condenser value.....negative.
So, not all class D, as i suppose may be others doing better job, mine is 500 Khz oscilator...maybe those tripath with variable frequencies, reaching 700Khz can make better job.
Someone strange with treble.... and i am not sure if i am rigth or wrong...i am just hearing and trying to deduce what is happening.
Yes, i intend to make comparison with AKSA, as that amplifier is some "Magic Mistery tour"....but i want those guys back to club first, as those that remains are not the ones i have better confidence.
I do not vote anymore, as they say that i am AKSA internally, they dislike Hugh because of Jellows...i am impeached to vote, when Aksa is tested....when they had. made tests .. and they could not dennie Aksa as winner...they were crazy to kick Hugh "S"...they could not...they are waiting that pleasure....they say i like Hugh too much...they dislike that, as i know hugh one year and i know them for 10 years more or less.
Carlos
Yves Smolders said:
I always thought that the DSP-A2 is not very good, but the past
when constructing amps and learning a lot about real quality,
i discovered that the Yamaha is not mid-fi, it might be not perfect,
but it is damn good. (It does not have best bass i think)
You can get easily blended by other amps sounding brighter,
but when continuing comparing and listening you realize that
the yamaha is always a step ahead.
It is really a "natural sound" amplifier.
The yamaha uses a sophisticated tripledarlington-quasicomplementary
with dynamicselfbiasing and bootstrapped vas. The outputdevices
are toshibas sc5200.
So, i am really interested in your results !
Michael
A very small selection of hard to be happy audiophiles are together MikeB
And we are evaluating together his comparisons with Yamaha.
And it is not easy to beat that Yamaha.
Always some subtile advantage related home designs and Yamaha amplifier.
Mike is trying to beat Yamaha.... and could go very close...not more than 10%, if we can say this, under Yamaha...and he is researching deeply.
He will succed, but will be a hard work, as Japanese, as i know them very well.... are very responsable with the things they do.
The evaluation method is some new technology of data transmission....maybe a wonderfull method....maybe some crap.... we are also evaluating our tools.
I really do not want to be inside the Japanese when this German is around.... this one is a decided man....he will stop when beat Yamaha...if not...you will see him working on it next 20 years.
regards,
Carlos
And we are evaluating together his comparisons with Yamaha.
And it is not easy to beat that Yamaha.
Always some subtile advantage related home designs and Yamaha amplifier.
Mike is trying to beat Yamaha.... and could go very close...not more than 10%, if we can say this, under Yamaha...and he is researching deeply.
He will succed, but will be a hard work, as Japanese, as i know them very well.... are very responsable with the things they do.
The evaluation method is some new technology of data transmission....maybe a wonderfull method....maybe some crap.... we are also evaluating our tools.
I really do not want to be inside the Japanese when this German is around.... this one is a decided man....he will stop when beat Yamaha...if not...you will see him working on it next 20 years.
regards,
Carlos
I was calling the A2 Midfi because of the price. At the time the flagship was the DSP-A1, at nearly double the price.
I wasn't aware the amp is so complex and considered good. Most reviews called yamaha's from that time "bright".
Only later (AX2, and the AZ series) they were considered very high quality.
I hope the UcD's better the DSP-A2 amps in stereo mode. I hope it works out!
I wasn't aware the amp is so complex and considered good. Most reviews called yamaha's from that time "bright".
Only later (AX2, and the AZ series) they were considered very high quality.
I hope the UcD's better the DSP-A2 amps in stereo mode. I hope it works out!
Well i've heard my speakers on NAD, I didn't like it, heard them on Rotel & Classé and they were so sweet. They are B&W Nautilus 804 speakers.
Never compared them in my house, but I think I can do better than DSP-A2 with the UcD's. It sounds a bit bright in my house, but maybe it's my stone floor, hard to tell.
My amp runs much hotter with my new speakers than my old, that means they need a lot of current (because on paper they are the same efficiency)
I don't dare turn my A2 volume up, i'm afraid the amp can't keep up and I'll damage my speakers with clipping. 2x200 clean watts with 20A on tap from the UcD's will give me a good feeling indeed
Yves
Never compared them in my house, but I think I can do better than DSP-A2 with the UcD's. It sounds a bit bright in my house, but maybe it's my stone floor, hard to tell.
My amp runs much hotter with my new speakers than my old, that means they need a lot of current (because on paper they are the same efficiency)
I don't dare turn my A2 volume up, i'm afraid the amp can't keep up and I'll damage my speakers with clipping. 2x200 clean watts with 20A on tap from the UcD's will give me a good feeling indeed
Yves
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