You may be confusing the word "good" with "expensive".I'd be very cautious in making a statement like so since someone we both know may accuse you of being a shill (for a good equipment maker or something).
You may be confusing the word "good" with "accurate".
How did you set up the comparison rig when you evaluated the sound for
Who cares, it sounds amazing
. And is not for sale, I keep it for myself, I guess that makes me egotistic, right?Seriously Andrea, if you would have the slightest amount of moral fiber you would not accept and encourage the most ridiculous ideas your customers are promoting here. Innocent souls went so far to pretend that suspending the oscillators by some rubber bands improve the sound, since the crystal vibrations are reduced, like in this thread you are losing money in: https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/group-buys/291925-tempered-master-clock-buy-128.html#post6653802 But I guess you think everything that supports your money losing endeavor is good for business, right?
I've seen in the last 20 years many people trying to promote a small business here, most of them were/are honest engineers (with or without the formal credentials) that found (or they thought they did) a niche in the tight audio market. You are fighting not only the First Principles, engineering good practices, and 100 years of audio development, but also with some of these individuals, which you are periodically demeaning and flaming, since you perceive them as a threat to your own business, do I need to quote examples? Adding this behavior to your unrealistic claims, and with the constant rejection to send any of your "amazing", "best in the world", etc... products for any independent, objective (aka measurements), evaluation (with shipping paid) tells pretty much the whole story about yourself and your "we".
What defines decent oscillator, one that does well in measurement evaluation? What about listening evaluation?
A reminder to all, the speed of sound varies with air temperature (~0.1%/F). Any conditioned closed space contains random air currents and with typical HVAC systems the exit temperatures of the vents are several degrees larger or smaller than the average temperature of the room. There is also the 300BTU or so of each person in the room. So IMO these close in jitter specs are not realizable due to the non-uniform and time variant properties of the environment. These effects have been measured.
It could also be that some of the effects substitute for failings in the reproduction in a way that our perception can process to the benefit of the whole. After all, most people's ear/brain system is trying to process the input in a way that correlates with learning from experience.
Which is exactly why I am strongly suspicious about the claimed phase noise results with Andrea's oscillators. A dangling PCB beats the space grade Wenzel oscillators. The PCB is good for audio use only, of course.
It would be nice if you could come up with a hypothesis involving the connection or mechanism for "high loop gain" having anything to do with it.
Agreed. I am working on thinking of an experiment I might do that may give a little more insight. Sometimes takes me sleeping on a problem for awhile.
However, have to wonder what the zero global feedback guys are liking about the sound they get. Haven't done much of that myself but want to try some things.
However, have to wonder what the zero global feedback guys are liking about the sound they get. Haven't done much of that myself but want to try some things.
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The feeling of being into a select group of owners, much praised by the audio rags and audio snake oil sales force. Otherwise said, they may enjoy an ego massage. If you prefer, it could be also viewed as a self rewarding system.
People preferences are not necessary toward high fidelity. There are many psycho-acoustic effects that indeed cannot be measured. Therefore, it all boils down to what an audio designer wants to achieve before anything else, high fidelity or high sales. For the latter, no technical skills are required, only a story to sell along. Like the noise modulation effects, feedback that chases its tail, holographic sound, etc...
Same for SET amplifiers, Wavac amplifier, Geoff Kait Machina Dynamica, etc...
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That is a good point and I share it. The room will make it sound different from any product, whether measured with a super instrument, be it from Nasa or the Gamaleya Center ...
It would be necessary to reproduce a recording in the same place in which it was recorded ...... but since that is impossible, it does not change things much, the exact reproduction by measurements so many defend some will not sound the same as live when reproduced in your room to be .....
But I do not want to continue like a dog that bites its tail, going around and around, I just wanted to add a comment between so much technicality ...
PS: I bought a few meters of a pseudo-audiophile cable for my cabinets and I was short, - Monster type -, nothing esoteric, so I added another segment and soldered it with common tin / lead solder, the joint was very neat , but in any case I place it hidden from the sight of my audiophile visits (which are relegated by the pandemic, of course) because they could criticize me for such an aberration and ruin an encounter destined to relaxation and enjoyment of music .....
This excludes the time domain.
A snapshot of sound showing the ultra-low THD, [not paying attention to the spikes & which frequency of spikes are the zones susceptible to perception] IMD, N, etc, is useful... although it's just a snapshot in time.
How about the people which argue that all the various speed characteristics are all important, for example this guy
For example, aren't the AD797 & THS4062 & so on, sonically great, due to their time-domain presentation? Not their THD presentation?
As far as oscillators go for D/A or CD players, the most important spec is short term stability. That means it would be pretty hard to beat an ovenized SC cut crystal without frequency control. That's all you would need for the ultimate clock. Any constant frequency deviation results in frequency differences too small to worry about.
If you were to lock it to the GPS, you would definitely want it in hold-over mode during playback. The very last thing you want is a frequency correction during system use!
A simple quartz crystal oscillator does extremely well for playback once the system is stable in temperature. It isn't that bad during warmup either. That's assuming a clean power supply of course.
-Chris
If you were to lock it to the GPS, you would definitely want it in hold-over mode during playback. The very last thing you want is a frequency correction during system use!
A simple quartz crystal oscillator does extremely well for playback once the system is stable in temperature. It isn't that bad during warmup either. That's assuming a clean power supply of course.
-Chris
Hi Kastor,
Several assumptions were being made:
Looking at the spectrum of a reproduced signal can be instantaneous, or averaged. You can use an oscilloscope, but the difference between the main signal and offending signals are too great to see on the 'scope. My scope is current, less than a year old now and $25K. It just isn't suited to that job. What an oscilloscope is great for is seeing time jitter against a reference signal (hopefully a stable clock). But, the levels of jitter you are looking at equates to tiny time shifts at audio frequencies. By tiny, I mean undetectable.
Don't get distracted by things that don't affect anything in a significant way. Look after the big problems first, then worry about the tiny stuff.
-Chris
Several assumptions were being made:
I wouldn't go that far.
Looking at the spectrum of a reproduced signal can be instantaneous, or averaged. You can use an oscilloscope, but the difference between the main signal and offending signals are too great to see on the 'scope. My scope is current, less than a year old now and $25K. It just isn't suited to that job. What an oscilloscope is great for is seeing time jitter against a reference signal (hopefully a stable clock). But, the levels of jitter you are looking at equates to tiny time shifts at audio frequencies. By tiny, I mean undetectable.
Don't get distracted by things that don't affect anything in a significant way. Look after the big problems first, then worry about the tiny stuff.
-Chris
I like some of my food extra spicy many here would find inedible, preference is subjective. Therefore I accept that some people love the distortion of their speaker drivers so much they use every effort to have it in as pristine condition as possible. Valid choice, but if that is hifi then by default hifi includes all systems producing acoustic distortion of up to ~1% give or take a few fractional percentage at 88dB SPL.
No problemo but, if you already know this, don't tell me extra spicy food is the best.
Only ~30% reduction or thereabout, quite wide in frequency range but nothing exciting to write yet. I currently don't have low distortion driver to play with. Hopefully I'll get a Satori midwoofer in a few weeks to get a better feel, budget gets really tight these days.
I wouldn't dare, may kill your tastebuds outright for days if you are not used to it.
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