Interesting,
Why would a system with perfect measurements not sound real?
The only thing would be that the sound measurements don't represent reality?<<yes it sounds stupid!
Or something is not right.. missing or distorted but it measures perfect.
When the first recording was made..what was the point behind it..to recreate the voice so you could tell it was the person speaking from the recording?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7318180.stm
If you couldn't tell one person from another, however you could understand what they were saying..is that HIFI? Its quite easy to put a filter on the input to equipment and have it not sound like Elton John.
To me measurements should be a tool to try and create the most life like reproduction..YMMV.
Regards
M. Gregg
Why would a system with perfect measurements not sound real?
The only thing would be that the sound measurements don't represent reality?<<yes it sounds stupid!
Or something is not right.. missing or distorted but it measures perfect.
When the first recording was made..what was the point behind it..to recreate the voice so you could tell it was the person speaking from the recording?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7318180.stm
If you couldn't tell one person from another, however you could understand what they were saying..is that HIFI? Its quite easy to put a filter on the input to equipment and have it not sound like Elton John.
To me measurements should be a tool to try and create the most life like reproduction..YMMV.
Regards
M. Gregg
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Hi,
Has anyone ever heard one?
I haven't and those that came with top notch specs weren't really convincing either. Odd, isn't it?
From experience I can see a correlation between a little distortion, simple but well executed circuits and good sound.
I think we (us humans, that is) prefer a pleasant sounding distortion spectrum over no distortion at all.
It is as if we perceive this as being more natural whereas the opposite, no distortion at all, seems sterile, lifeless and unnatural.
Is it human nature or is it due to the way we have achieved these low levels of distortion? I wonder....
Cheers,
Has anyone ever heard one?
I haven't and those that came with top notch specs weren't really convincing either. Odd, isn't it?
From experience I can see a correlation between a little distortion, simple but well executed circuits and good sound.
I think we (us humans, that is) prefer a pleasant sounding distortion spectrum over no distortion at all.
It is as if we perceive this as being more natural whereas the opposite, no distortion at all, seems sterile, lifeless and unnatural.
Is it human nature or is it due to the way we have achieved these low levels of distortion? I wonder....
Cheers,
While I enjoy your posts, I have to say that statement contradicts the large amount of online listening data versus the lowest THD correlation.
In in-ear monitors and op-amp's, the subjective analysis of lifelike, natural and revealing coincides quite well with the highest performers in THD.
I have been convinced there was somebody playing and singing when outside a room and was surprised to walk in and see a system.
I had thought it was some kind of entertainment. If I had had a bet I would have lost..it was so lifelike.
This has happen perhaps a dozen times over the years.
However you have a point..if you can't measure realness <<however theoretically if you could capture the sound entering your ears at a point in time and play it back exactly it should sound real..
Regards
M. Gregg
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The 20W and 30W amps were also offered completed with warranty. Second-hand ones popped up at hifi shops for asking prices of up to $2K.
(similar deal with the M1 design by Günther Mania of AVM)
That no listener can tell If it's a real-life acoustic performance or not.
Denon in Japan once demonstrated with veiled speakers that the audience could not tell if it was speakers they were listening to or not.
Hi,
That's entirely possible. I was just thinking out loud at the same time wondering why SE amps (mostly the more primitive (so to speak) DHT variety (sorry for the valve electronics jargon) can sound so utterly convincing despite all the technical flaws.
High even order distortion, low to non-existing DF and so on.
And yet, despite all this they can have this "you are there feel" to them that's almost never heard elsewhere given the right system.
One could wipe them all under the carpet saying they're effect boxes but still...
Lucky you. It has happened maybe once or twice to me over the past 40 years or so.
Cheers,
That's entirely possible. I was just thinking out loud at the same time wondering why SE amps (mostly the more primitive (so to speak) DHT variety (sorry for the valve electronics jargon) can sound so utterly convincing despite all the technical flaws.
High even order distortion, low to non-existing DF and so on.
And yet, despite all this they can have this "you are there feel" to them that's almost never heard elsewhere given the right system.
One could wipe them all under the carpet saying they're effect boxes but still...
Lucky you. It has happened maybe once or twice to me over the past 40 years or so.
Cheers,
That's the only measurement that counts - that it's lifelike ... and the fact that you heard it so rarely is the giveaway - this is not a trivial thing to achieve. IME, it's worrying about the small things that counts, not the big things, in achieving this.
No, that type of system setup is capable of getting one half of the sound picture in place - and, technically well measuring systems get the other half of the picture in place. All that then needs to happen is for those qualities to combined in a single system - that's the tricky bit, but certainly achievable ...
Perhaps the secret sauce is microphonics creating a sort of reverb effect as the room sound is fed back into the electronics. Same story with vinyl and turntables.
fas42, the way you keep speaking of recording quality synergy with the system attributes and your comments about Nero media player being much better than Foobar - but it could be reversed on a different computer - just look like intentional perplexification to me.
Any system has a totally fixed transparency, the transparency doesn't change depending on the recording, since it can't, it's not self-aware, it's like a tinted window, morning sunlight doesn't change the tint.
Any system has a totally fixed transparency, the transparency doesn't change depending on the recording, since it can't, it's not self-aware, it's like a tinted window, morning sunlight doesn't change the tint.
Kastor, what I'm saying is that the process of audio replay is complex, because any one of myriad interactions could be causing the quality to degrade to the point where it is audibly disturbing - there are ... no ... simple ... solutions!
The fixed transparency concept is wrong, wrong, wrong - because, for instance, outside interference effects could be a major issue, for a particular system. That "fixed" thing then depends on the time of the day, the day of the week, what the neighbour happens to be doing with his electricals - this is a can of worms! If that's the problem, in that instance, you have to work on bulletproofing your system against that interference - otherwise, you're at the mercy of those influences.
The fixed transparency concept is wrong, wrong, wrong - because, for instance, outside interference effects could be a major issue, for a particular system. That "fixed" thing then depends on the time of the day, the day of the week, what the neighbour happens to be doing with his electricals - this is a can of worms! If that's the problem, in that instance, you have to work on bulletproofing your system against that interference - otherwise, you're at the mercy of those influences.
Talking of getting digital replay right, I was impressed with, when listening to, the CH Precision D1 CD unit - and so have many other people. But, horror of horrors, all it uses is a pair of an everyday Wolfson DAC chips to do the real work, the same one as in plenty of cheap and nasty devices - so, what's going on?? Answer: implementation, implementation, implementation - the designers have done major work in creating a super clean and stable environment inside the box for everything to work exactly as it's supposed to - and hence reap the rewards ...
I once went jogging to a large electrical station, standing underneath a certain area, I felt dizzy somehow, it seems like the electricals were powerful enough to be felt.
Funny enough, my Sony Walkman was unaffected.
At home, no battery powered devices will ever be affected.
Do you have more examples why transparency isn't fixed?
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