Not even close to what I have discovered! I can't say that I have fully "dicovered" whatever it is that I have discovered. I don't have a spare £million or £billion to play with, like the Large Hadron Collider, and other tax payer funded follies. I don't have an army of technicians either.
I know what my discovery is and nobody else knows what it is because I haven't told them. I know what causes certain distortions and I know how to get rid of said distortions. I know that doing so allows my graphics card to run 5% faster. I know that doing so allows my DVD drive to read scratched discs that it could not read before. I know that oscilloscopes and spectrum analysers will say that nothing has changed, and yet the graphics card, DVD drive, loudspeaker, amplifier and CD player say differently. I know that this Sound Quality Vs. Measurements thread will run for another 20 years without any agreement or resolution!
Should I entertain a theory or should I stick my head in the sand and pretend that the graphics card is still running at its original slower speed?
As for the rude "gentleman". I KNOW that he does not know what I know. I'm sure he's knows plenty of things that I don't, BUT, he does not know what I know, cause I never told him. Some people will pontificate, with absolute certainty, about matters they know literally nothing about.
Is there some kind of rule that says that everything that can be discovered has already been discovered. Maybe there is???
I heard this beast at the Sydney audio show, and it didn't fire, in the quality stakes. Same old problems that over-complicated audio normally has, on that slippery slope to PA sound ...Eveything gets turned into bits and back by DEQX? Those poor LP's.
Unfortunately, a.wayne, you're not willing to try and understand that sound doesn't fall into obvious, separate baskets in the way you're attempting to make it be. Quality in reproduction is a continuum in behaviour, there is a steady progression in various directions, no sudden jumps in goodness and badness. Subjectively, it may seem like that at times but at a measurement level only very small changes have occurred.
That said, there is a plateau of quality which is very, very important, because this is where the ear/brain really kicks in to properly decode what you're hearing - and you get the 'magic sound' that you're chasing.
What you said about the different amplifier classes is nonsense - correct sound has all the positives you mentioned, and none of the negatives; and any of the classes of amplifiers will deliver 'prime' sound if they're engineered, and built, correctly. Typical examples, of normal builds will show the traits you mentioned, which merely indicates flaws in the implementation.
The real answer is - no compromise!! But people are lazy, take the easy ways to do it, have to earn a quid to buy food - hence one gets the gear that you typically buy ...
Last edited:
Oh that's a pity - I was going to chime in and say I've found pretty much the same as what a.wayne was saying. Especially what he said about classD. I've only just started playing with a dinky classD amp IC but my experience with it echos a.wayne's comments - the most lively sound and a scrappy top end. I've got rid of the scrappy top end now by installing a passive XO before the chip, leaving the tweeters to classB and its really doing its stuff now into some 5inch bass/mids.
I've never heard 5inchers sound this close to horns......
Northstar, if you liked that clip, here's another one:
Man is the most sophisticated bio-electrical-mechanical creation ever which can be made by any idiot. (Origin unknown)
David; "The only line of demarcation that separates a genius fool from a handicapped people is invisible to the naked human eye." - Bob (me)
I find it intriguing that the CD's and Graphics Card 'inside electronics' can 'measure' the change but a spectrum analyser or scope cannot. Doesn't make sense to me (but that may be just me).
I think there's a saying that everything that can be said has already been said but not yet by everyone
Jan
Of course, that's why I used the phrase "flaws in the implementation" - class D done sloppily will have problems; the QSC PA speakers I heard a day or so ago used the classic studio monitor slightly flared tweeter mounting, driven by a high power class D amp, and did a fairly decent job of the thing - no electrostatic 'transparency' here but compared to the downright awful, shrill, distorted treble put out by some hideously expensive gear it was pretty decent - capable of doing the raw "blatt" of a saxophone very nicely.Oh that's a pity - I was going to chime in and say I've found pretty much the same as what a.wayne was saying. Especially what he said about classD. I've only just started playing with a dinky classD amp IC but my experience with it echos a.wayne's comments - the most lively sound and a scrappy top end. I've got rid of the scrappy top end now by installing a passive XO before the chip, leaving the tweeters to classB and its really doing its stuff now into some 5inch bass/mids.
I've never heard 5inchers sound this close to horns......
This close to horns? You mean, this close to "correct" sound - effortless, full, overwhelming, deeply satisfying ...
Frank , Share the moonshine ........ 
As to class-D i have tried a few well "known and pricey ones, i could never get past their upper range issues , i had attempted to and got close to hearing the Merrill's (@12K) but that deal fell thru and i did not get to audition them , he uses Bruno's latest and greatest and i have heard good things about them. Bruno did demo his latest creation at Munich this year and i was told from a few who went that it had the same issues , then i read on Paul's blog that
he had given up on getting them to work and would not be pursuing class-D for his reference amplifier anymore , mind you this after acquiring an infinity IRS system, a very open wide-bandwidth speaker system , now he hears the top end issues not obvious to him before ...
Everytime i fired up the FPB300cx i wished they would get Class-D to work ..
As to class-D i have tried a few well "known and pricey ones, i could never get past their upper range issues , i had attempted to and got close to hearing the Merrill's (@12K) but that deal fell thru and i did not get to audition them , he uses Bruno's latest and greatest and i have heard good things about them. Bruno did demo his latest creation at Munich this year and i was told from a few who went that it had the same issues , then i read on Paul's blog that
he had given up on getting them to work and would not be pursuing class-D for his reference amplifier anymore , mind you this after acquiring an infinity IRS system, a very open wide-bandwidth speaker system , now he hears the top end issues not obvious to him before ...
Everytime i fired up the FPB300cx i wished they would get Class-D to work ..
What I was commenting on was his belief that you used certain types, and combinations of amplifier topologies to "flavour" the sound - that's a pure silliness. You either have correct sound, or you don't - if the sound is not right then there is an audible distortion, which may be easier to "fix" by moving to another style of circuit. The trap is in believing that there is 'magic' in the topologies ...
Correctness, and deeply addictive sound are different aspects of the one and the same thing, the first leads to the second - the 'hard' bit is coming to terms with what's needed to be done to make the first thing happen ...
Flavor the Sound ! Really show me where i said such , you need to layoff the rat Bat juice ...
Last edited:
This is all part of the audio dilemma that the closer you get to optimum sound the worse it can often sound, and that "worseness" will be most obvious in the treble area. This is where experience comes in, one needs to know, be able to read the "signs" in what you hear, to diagnose where the problems may be. It can very hard at this stage, but if one doesn't persist, gives up, then the opportunity to get 'special' sound will be lost, it will likely drop back to just ordinary quality, Yet Again ...As to class-D i have tried a few well "known and pricey ones, i could never get past their upper range issues , i had attempted to and got close to hearing the Merrill's (@12K) but that deal fell thru and i did not get to audition them , he uses Bruno's latest and greatest and i have heard good things about them. Bruno did demo his latest creation at Munich this year and i was told from a few who went that it had the same issues , then i read on Paul's blog that
he had given up on getting them to work and would not be pursuing class-D for his reference amplifier anymore , mind you this after acquiring an infinity IRS system, a very open wide-bandwidth speaker system , now he hears the top end issues not obvious to him before ...
Everytime i fired up the FPB300cx i wished they would get Class-D to work ..
Who is Paul? PS Audio Paul?
The problem with classD is the power supply - same problem as for any amp really except balanced SE classA. ClassD can be made to work with enough effort into the PSU but I reckon probably will still suck for tweeter duty. That's my provisional conclusion.... The chip I'm using has 20dB PSRR at 20kHz, (an LM3886 in standard implementation has 24dB) hard to overcome that with decoupling but if its limited to 4kHz at the top then I think its probably a goer.
@Frank - you definitely said 'What you said...' not 'What you believe...'.
- Status
- Not open for further replies.