Sound Quality Vs. Measurements

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Rather hard on Midori he is. A bit grating in fact, and made more so as a dear friend of mine is her publicist.

Those Bach solo violin pieces seem prone to instill over-the-top (or under-the -bottom I guess) responses. I was reminded of TAS, iirc, many years ago, going overboard in praise of the Sigiswald Kuijken LP set. It's some good vinyl, but I still wonder at the hyperbole of that day.

Well, there are some LPs I won't be attempting to acquire anytime soon!
 
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I have, demoed by Monsieur Hiraga hisself. I was not particularly convinced. Not "shouty," though.
Don't know. It's whatever he showed at ETF two years ago.
Unless things have changed a lot, I'm sure it was typical of his work. Might have been the GPA coax in the TL cabinet.

That's the fascinating thing about audio. SY and I both have a no-nonsense, pragmatic approach to audio. We aren't overly influenced by fad or fashion, we both build most of our own stuff, we have similar tastes in music.

But we don't have the same tastes in audio playback. SY isn't fond of paper cones, I don't like composite cones. The colorations that bother me don't worry him and visa-versa. We each have or own version of what we feel is correct. Who's right? Is either of us right?
 
I can guarantee that a mariachi band playing in your room would be very "shouty". There's no way you could reproduce them with realism using the sanitized, laid-back "hi-fi" systems so much cherished by audiophiles. ;)
Yes, such a sound should blow your head off ...

And the typically feeble, sanitized systems haven't got a hope of doing that ...

Now, whether you consider that quality in the sound to be "shouty" or "real" is largely one of the semantics - live sound does have tremendous impact, and if a system can't get that right, then it will never sound real - unless the recording is of a relatively insipid, lacklustre music making session ...
 
Unless things have changed a lot, I'm sure it was typical of his work. Might have been the GPA coax in the TL cabinet.

That's the fascinating thing about audio. SY and I both have a no-nonsense, pragmatic approach to audio. We aren't overly influenced by fad or fashion, we both build most of our own stuff, we have similar tastes in music.

But we don't have the same tastes in audio playback. SY isn't fond of paper cones, I don't like composite cones. The colorations that bother me don't worry him and visa-versa. We each have or own version of what we feel is correct. Who's right? Is either of us right?

Both right and both wrong. Not a problem. I could suggest a peacemaking alternative, but if SY wants precise and you want natural, you'll never agree.

Best not stir it up. Might be a hair's breadth from your friendship ending in bloody conflagration.

I like proper polypropylene, of course. It's an ideological commitment.
 
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For me there is a continuum, starting with the audio gear which will source the sound, through to the experience of listening to a variety of styles and qualities of recorded music - there is a constant, strong feedback loop from the end game to the starting point, which is followed over and over again, in the endeavour to optimise the final outcome. Poor quality in the hearing of material tells me that I have an "error condition", so I supply extra energy, "input", to improve the 'accuracy' ...

And thus you progress.

10 Hours of Infinite Fractal and Falling Shepard's Tone - YouTube
 
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I can guarantee that a mariachi band playing in your room would be very "shouty".
I understand what you mean, but that's not my definition of word. Mariachi's would be loud, sure. But not the same sound as P.A. horn shout. TO me that means a forward, hot midrange that always sounds like it's coming from a horn. My system has no problems with dynamics, it's all horn loaded, but doesn't have that shout.

FWIW, I used to attend the bullfights in Mexico when I was a kid. I really loved the band. Mostly I enjoyed them because they were really bad and really drunk. :fight:
 
Rather hard on Midori he is. A bit grating in fact, and made more so as a dear friend of mine is her publicist.

Those Bach solo violin pieces seem prone to instill over-the-top (or under-the -bottom I guess) responses. I was reminded of TAS, iirc, many years ago, going overboard in praise of the Sigiswald Kuijken LP set. It's some good vinyl, but I still wonder at the hyperbole of that day.

Well, there are some LPs I won't be attempting to acquire anytime soon!

Well I'm glad you're still listening to LP's ... :)

SY makes his living from plastics, so I think he's biased. :p

Easy with Sy , he hasn't been the same since he demoed his setup with Audiophile cables.....

:rofl:
 
Hope that helps make clear what I'm talking about. Thanks for reading. :D

Thanks for writing so clearly.

I'm exploring the view that an audio system is part of a musical instrument.

Engineers have tried to make a better violin, as if the skill, evolved technology, experience, and ears of tradition count for nothing. Good violins all sound different from each other but they all sound right, no matter what the score. I feel this paradox has something to do with whatever people mean by "natural".

Could it be that, in your case, a properly-distorted cello sounds like a slightly different but equally good cello? Or the same cello played in a slightly different position? In that case the difference could be said to be assimilated by the source.

Or could it just be that "natural sound" plus "accurate enough" amounts to "sounds like the real thing"? In this case the difference is assimilated by the listener.

As for natural sound itself, I guess that's about neurology and anthropology. In terms of measurement, there's not much difference between a human face and something horribly unnatural. Somehow we spot the difference instantly, even though every face is different.
 
Or could it just be that "natural sound" plus "accurate enough" amounts to "sounds like the real thing"? In this case the difference is assimilated by the listener.

As for natural sound itself, I guess that's about neurology and anthropology. In terms of measurement, there's not much difference between a human face and something horribly unnatural. Somehow we spot the difference instantly, even though every face is different.
Yes.
 
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Well I'm glad you're still listening to LP's ... :)

Four tonight so far, at the moment a Nick Drake, a remaster of Pink Moon that is simply splendid. I defy anyone who thinks vinyl is only about nostalgia and clicks and pops to hear this and honestly maintain that point of view.

Having said that I started by listening to a CD of the ancient Horace Silver epic Song For My Father. However my CD playback capabilities are far inferior to my LP's.
 
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Could it be that, in your case, a properly-distorted cello sounds like a slightly different but equally good cello? Or the same cello played in a slightly different position?
Possible, but I don't think it's the case. I don't think so because I don't think that would track across a lot of recordings and a lot of instruments. As you know, there are some systems that sound great on certain recordings, but don't handle a wide range well. There I could agree with the distortions lining up well with the "good" recordings.

The systems I like sound very clean and natural across a wide range of recordings. Of course it is possible that the addition of a certain harmonic structure could make up for what was lost in the recording chain (H4 is often suppressed) - but I don't think anyone has ever shown proof of that addition helping. An interesting idea, tho.

Or could it just be that "natural sound" plus "accurate enough" amounts to "sounds like the real thing"?
I don't know what that means so can't answer, sorry. :(
 
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I'm exploring the view that an audio system is part of a musical instrument.

Engineers have tried to make a better violin, as if the skill, evolved technology, experience, and ears of tradition count for nothing...

It did work with wildly successful results for guitars. Charles Kaman took his aerospace engineering know-how of the 50's, and as an avid guitarist wondered if he could improve on the guitar. Well, the rest as they say is history. The Ovation guitar was born in 1966. But he did so using engineering and science disciplines. Why can't we take the same approach to the design of audio, think outside the box, and truly have some metrics that we can reply on that we know scientifically how and why they affect the sound. This would remove any mysterious approach to parts swapping and the all too subjective nature of trying to measure their results.
 
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