Interesting,
Here is a thought, Why is HIFI in the home not studio equipment?
Other than power..The measured result should be good...But how many home audio people don't like it?
Regards
M. Gregg
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Side issues of this musings (see the link)? How are they related?
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/lounge/200865-sound-quality-vs-measurements-189.html#post2952606
Do you mean you've seen studio monitors that fool imagination as if the sound is real?
No I havent that is the point...However the equipment should measure well?
Regards
M. Gregg
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In order to judge about resulting sound from schematics, one should start from creating an almost perfect "research" audio system (top audiophile quality components, cables, recordings, listening room, etc.). Depending on these initial investments, one could get different abilities on "sound prediction" from schematics.
Second, one should listen to best representatives of various topologies, various classes SS, tubes, etc.
Proceeding from preferences obtained, one should continue variations and trials of preferred topology, and so on.
So, if one states that he able to predict sound looking at schematics, first I would like to know why he belive in such ability.
Thank you John. But some people would argue that symmetric complementary schematics are better; tubes distort more and such schematics represent effect boxes; some would say that SS devices added to tubes kill the sound; some would argue that more of DF is needed, and so on, while in listening tests this amp will beat lots of others by realism of sound.
Anatoliy: If you want to use a tool, you have to use it intelligently. That means defining what you want to measure, understanding how the measurement variables work, measuring, then interpreting. For example, if I want to know if a cone has a breakup mode which makes a Martin sound like a Silvertone, I'm not going to use a sinewave, I'm going to do a complex impedance measurement, look for the pigtails, then hit the speaker with an impulse and look at the acoustic response. I'm unlikely to get useful data by looking at a 4 minute guitar recording.
Interesting like the paraphase..(effects box)LOL
So what do you think is happening to deceive the mind into thinking its real..
Is the world second harmonic in nature?
Regards
M. Gregg
If I show you my schematics lots of people will say it is wrong.
Here is an example attached. Let's read how it is wrong, and why it can't sound nice.
This is, of course, a joke, isn't it, my Polish cousin?
I mean, how can it work without a single MOSFET or IGBT, tell me?
Everybody would like to have such a measuring tool, that its measurements would be equal to listening expertise.
However, we see almost no progress along this way, most are forced to deal with subjective listening impressions.
Stuart, I absolutely agree with you. You know that. When I want to diagnose problems I do the same, aiming measurement to the problems I discover and judge.
But I don't have a single recipe what to measure in any amp to tell how perfect it is, compared to others. When people claim they do, I am 100% convinced they don't have either experience, or understanding, or both.
No other perfectometers than human reactions are konwn to me. If the sound cause emotions subconsciously before I realize that the sound is reproduced, it is good system. If I hear the amp and speakers and judge how well it sounds, it is bad system. The harder to imagine that sounds are real when I close eyes and try to imagine real sources of sounds, the worse is the system.
Well,
Only my opinion, If it sells well (equipment) then why does it sell? What makes HIFI famous? Is this measurement?
Regards
M. Gregg
You can measure jewelry of course, bot do they sell it by weight, or by size?
The answer is simple: when people buy more and more of audio devices of the same functions that means they are not satisfied yet. Like, when people upgrade Windows to new version they hope to get rid of old bugs. Then new bugs become older, and they want to get rid of them... And so on...
...but when they keep Blowtorch, or Vendetta, for many years, what does it mean?
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Well most people look at the spec then listen. I know one thing if it sounds "bad" then no number of high quoted specs will make any difference.
It seems to me that HIFI has been marching on the same spot for some time. Yes its clearer now than before, however something is wrong when old equipment is still the ref standard?
Regards
M. Gregg
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I would not generalize. People are very different. But the common trend is, they are still not satisfied.
I agree,
Then people think the answer is to throw money at it and buy higher value equipment and yet the Ferrari does not hit the spot either.
Then again the ferrari could be a low power SE 211.
You know I'm beginning to think that we are going nowhere fast.
Regards
M. Gregg
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When an average person goes for buying HiFi, he has no time and possibilities to become an expert before that. He most frequently proceeds from a budget available, from advertising, from how equipment looks like. Only few of HiFi owners start to look for something better, and eventually become an audiophile.
I personally proceed from a supposition, that the present forum is attended by audiophiles (or some persons from related industry branches). I also guess, that audiophiles and industrial designers could have different motivations. Therefore so different poits of view are supported.
The fact that HiFi is sold good, does not give ground that the equipment is good, on contrary, good sales of HiFi was a reason that production of really good models by early Pioneer, Yamaha, Sony, in that number amps based on the SIT transistors, was discontinued.
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