I see reference from a lot of the IC proponents to properly designed circuits.
Please don't tell me that you are referring to the manufacturers datasheets where they refer to bypassing the power supply pins on the op-amp with an electrolytic and ceramic capacitor for good low and high frequency bypassing.
Please don't tell me that you are referring to the manufacturers datasheets where they refer to bypassing the power supply pins on the op-amp with an electrolytic and ceramic capacitor for good low and high frequency bypassing.
What does this third hand anecdote have to do with chips versus discrete circuitry?
Yes you make a perfect relevant point. It was what I was thinking when I heard the story. The fault indicates there was something obviously unusual somewhere that could have had other effects. I don't recall that a spectrum analyser or any other test equipment results were reported publicily for that channel.
What is interesting and very relevant to this discussion is that more than one (IIRC but not sure exactly how many) of Neve's engineers couldn't hear the problem.
Missed the point? Let me try and explain it more simply.
This thread is titled "sound of discrete of opamps"
There are some here saying that in "properly designed" IC op-amp circuits (hope that quote is correct - just shoot me if it aint) you cannot hear the difference in sound quality to a good discrete design.
My point is that those people that claim there is no sonic difference may not be able to hear it. Just as Neve's engineers couldn't hear a problem with that channel.
They may be basing their perception as a truth and then thinking that others that say they do perceive a difference as <enter variously used terms, some even deragatory here>.
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Missed the point. No one, not you, not me, not anyone, has demonstrated that they can hear a difference between a well-designed discrete circuit and a well designed chip circuit. Maybe there is someone who can and has demonstrated it (i.e., level matched, no peeking). When you have evidence beyond a third hand anecdote which may or may not have any truth behind it, and may or may not have any relevance, many people (me included) will be highly interested in seeing it.
Copper like many pure metals has a 3000ppm/degree TC this has nothing to do with Ohms law except R is not constant. Saying a material does not follow Ohms law makes no sense, you measure E and I, R is what's left by definition. Anything else i.e. creating or destroying charge is not possible.
Yeah. WW is no longer. For the last decade or so it's EW. I thought that would be know around here.
Anyway, I know of several cable articles in WW/EW. Proved that cable parameters like R, L, C can, depending on the speaker load, influence freq response and freq dependent damping and such.
The 'normal' cables are OK here, but some 'boutique' cables with extreme parameters or extreme parameter ratios do impact the reproduction and thus can sound different. Hell, some cable peddlers even put boxes with extra caps and/or L's on the ends of their cable to mess things up so bad that they MUST sound different.
But moving cables around? I think your memory indeed plays up again.
jan didden
No this is perfectly normal. It has the same psychological basis as why people that pay kilobucks for their amp always can hear a difference.
jan didden
In an interview R. Neve described how he determined that a 5 degree phase shift at 20,000 cycles could be heard. That is anecdotal. M. Schroeder in a memoir relates how he set up computer generated tones and he and his colleagues could detect 5 degree phase ***** at 20,000 cycles. Not a full rigorous test but enough to satisfy their curiosity.
So my OPINION is that both are correct. You certainly can generate .wav files yourself to test the issue. In this case I probably will not do the experiment as it is easy to design gear that meets these requirements.
Now when I compare opamps the issue is can you find a discrete that actually behaves the same as an IC on all of the parameters. So far as bandwidth, distortion and slew rate the answer is probably yes. When you look at EMI or noise level the answer is probably not.
Copper is the metal the wire is made from. Ohms law is usually considered violated by the changes in the VI relationship due to self heating. That is why some resistors with large thermal swings are labeled as such and referred to as thermistors.
As you well know there are thermal distortions in all resistors and what gets called "voltage distortion" so at some level all resistors are not linear.
Cables made of copper contain some impurities and also have typically thermocouple terminations. So all wire has some distortions. The issue is are they large enough to be heard. Using a reasonable gauge for the length and not doing something screwy, my suspicion is probably not.
No, it's a simple misunderstanding. Ohm's law can not be violated it relies on first principles of conservation of charge and energy. The slope of the VI curve is R there are no free parameters.
Ohm's law is not a law of nature! It just happens to be approximately true for many conductors, not true for others. As it is not a law of nature, there is no problem when it is violated.
Now if Kirchoff's laws were violated that would be a completely different matter, as they are laws of nature: charge conservation, and a conservative static electric field.
Now if Kirchoff's laws were violated that would be a completely different matter, as they are laws of nature: charge conservation, and a conservative static electric field.
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