Bartek:
Thanks for the advice. Interesting that you find that a stiffer suspention yeilds a better result. This has not always been the case for me. I often attempt to lower the mechanical resonance frequency of a chassis, often by air suspention (hoses) and big granite slabs (gravestones!). This method gives a frequency of around 1.5Hz (from shelf to chassis). My thinking was that a flying circuit acts like a spring and in so doing lowers res. freq., I'm probably wrong. But either way I would agree that it feels better to connect everything securly inside. Your P2P looks great by the way!
Peter:
A couple of questions reguarding the attenuator at the output: Have you given any thought as to which range of resistor values you will use? Is there any bad side effects with having just one attenuator for a balanced signal as opposed to two?
/Niclas
Just to verify that I understood you correctly I've attached a circuit diagram:
Thanks for the advice. Interesting that you find that a stiffer suspention yeilds a better result. This has not always been the case for me. I often attempt to lower the mechanical resonance frequency of a chassis, often by air suspention (hoses) and big granite slabs (gravestones!). This method gives a frequency of around 1.5Hz (from shelf to chassis). My thinking was that a flying circuit acts like a spring and in so doing lowers res. freq., I'm probably wrong. But either way I would agree that it feels better to connect everything securly inside. Your P2P looks great by the way!
Peter:
A couple of questions reguarding the attenuator at the output: Have you given any thought as to which range of resistor values you will use? Is there any bad side effects with having just one attenuator for a balanced signal as opposed to two?
/Niclas
Just to verify that I understood you correctly I've attached a circuit diagram:
Attachments
I think it doesn't work that way for circuit components.
The capacitors or other parts can't be shaking and vibrationg becouse they are loosely mounted on their legs.
I once put together Aleph 3 clone using p2p and all components were loosely mounted like on the second picture of this thread of Yours.When I gave a kick to the heatsinks on which everything was mounted all the heavy parts started to shake and vibrate.
I connected the circuit and it sounded awfull,also there was some cracking in the speakers.I was looking for some bad connections or components for two weeks...nothing.I glued some heavier parts to the chassis and it got better,but when I put all the parts on PCB it all worked just great from the first time.I don't know what was it,vibrations ,mocrophonics or whatever but I learned a lot.Also expirenced similar things more times and always making components stiff with the chassis made things work.
Lowering the mechanical resonance frequency of a chassis is probably another,diffrent thing.
Bartek
Bartek wrote:
Maybe you are right. Can you motivate why?
I'm sorry, but I don't understand what you mean. Why can't a loosely mounted component shake/vibrate? Seems like the opposite is true.
Why would it be diffrent? On the one side we try to prevent vibrations from finding its way into our circuitry and on the other we try to lead mechanical energy away from our circuitry. So won't all environmental issues add to this equation (how circuitry is fixated, chassis dampening/suspention, etc)?
How do you like the sound of your Aleph 3 after all your modifications?
Reguards,
Niclas
Maybe you are right. Can you motivate why?
I'm sorry, but I don't understand what you mean. Why can't a loosely mounted component shake/vibrate? Seems like the opposite is true.
Why would it be diffrent? On the one side we try to prevent vibrations from finding its way into our circuitry and on the other we try to lead mechanical energy away from our circuitry. So won't all environmental issues add to this equation (how circuitry is fixated, chassis dampening/suspention, etc)?
How do you like the sound of your Aleph 3 after all your modifications?
Reguards,
Niclas
Niclas,
I think you don't understand what I mean.
If you take this brass bar from picture two of this thread with all it's components in your hand and shake it the the heavy caps mounted on long thin legs will be vibrating much longer than the bar itself.
It's like with speaker stands.They have to be as heavy as possible to dumb the vibration,but the speaker shuld be mounted rigid to the stand and the stand should be rigid mounted to the floor to make things working.
Bartek
Sorry If I'm not clear.
I think you don't understand what I mean.
If you take this brass bar from picture two of this thread with all it's components in your hand and shake it the the heavy caps mounted on long thin legs will be vibrating much longer than the bar itself.
It's like with speaker stands.They have to be as heavy as possible to dumb the vibration,but the speaker shuld be mounted rigid to the stand and the stand should be rigid mounted to the floor to make things working.
Bartek
Sorry If I'm not clear.
Good morning Bartek!
Agreed. Although I'm not convinced this translates to worse sound.
Yes, this generally gives good, consisent results. But, again, I have had experiences where another approach has given me subjectively better results. And this by using a simple air hose with a concreet slab on top, then the speaker standing on top of the slab (it was a floormount). Rigid mounting amounts to a rise in resonance, air (or spring) mounting amount to a decrese in resonant freq. (at least in my findings).
If the alephP doesn't give me the results I was expecting I promise you that I will attempt to mount all heavy components as rigidly as possble. Once again, I really appeciate your advice!
/Niclas
Agreed. Although I'm not convinced this translates to worse sound.
Yes, this generally gives good, consisent results. But, again, I have had experiences where another approach has given me subjectively better results. And this by using a simple air hose with a concreet slab on top, then the speaker standing on top of the slab (it was a floormount). Rigid mounting amounts to a rise in resonance, air (or spring) mounting amount to a decrese in resonant freq. (at least in my findings).
If the alephP doesn't give me the results I was expecting I promise you that I will attempt to mount all heavy components as rigidly as possble. Once again, I really appeciate your advice!
/Niclas
Peter and Zygibajt's examples of point to point wiring clearly
demonstrate that there is an art to this type of circuit building!
I would need steb-by-step instructions to even attempt pulling off
point to point that nice looking. Like everything else i'm sure a lot
of practice and building is in their history too. You don't just sit
down and pick up a guitar and start pickin' like Eric Clapton
nice exchange of ideas, i look forward to hearing how it turns out
for you Niclas! Be sure to report back.
demonstrate that there is an art to this type of circuit building!
I would need steb-by-step instructions to even attempt pulling off
point to point that nice looking. Like everything else i'm sure a lot
of practice and building is in their history too. You don't just sit
down and pick up a guitar and start pickin' like Eric Clapton
nice exchange of ideas, i look forward to hearing how it turns out
for you Niclas! Be sure to report back.
Niclas,
I might be wrong.
I just wanted to share my epirences.
Most of the projects I'm building I do p2p way.
And I epirenced some problems with loosely mounted parts and mostly not becouse of the sound but becouse it didn't even worked properly when mounted that way(I'm not quite sure why,though).
I really like your p2p from picture one of this thread.
Good luck with your project!
Bartek
I might be wrong.
I just wanted to share my epirences.
Most of the projects I'm building I do p2p way.
And I epirenced some problems with loosely mounted parts and mostly not becouse of the sound but becouse it didn't even worked properly when mounted that way(I'm not quite sure why,though).
I really like your p2p from picture one of this thread.
Good luck with your project!
Bartek
moe29 wrote:
Yes. They both make it look easy.
Give me a couple of weeks and I will!
Bartek wrote:
Me too! You know how it is. Audio can drive anybody crazy. I did some experiments a few years ago concerning dampening and the like and now choose to take them as facts mearly because thinking about it all the time gave me no peace of mind. (I must have a mild form of autism...round and round my thoughts go and seldom foward). If I were to do it again today I might reach another conclusion. But I dare not go there just now!
I'll fasten the bigger caps and bridges of course, but I actually think that the caps on the main circuit are securly fastened by all the other components (hope so at least!). Time to go back to the hot iron!
Yes. They both make it look easy.
Give me a couple of weeks and I will!
Bartek wrote:
Me too! You know how it is. Audio can drive anybody crazy. I did some experiments a few years ago concerning dampening and the like and now choose to take them as facts mearly because thinking about it all the time gave me no peace of mind. (I must have a mild form of autism...round and round my thoughts go and seldom foward). If I were to do it again today I might reach another conclusion. But I dare not go there just now!
I'll fasten the bigger caps and bridges of course, but I actually think that the caps on the main circuit are securly fastened by all the other components (hope so at least!). Time to go back to the hot iron!
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