Biscu, did you measure while adjusting the PEQ? Because taking a shot at frequency and Q by ear isn't likely to get there before you get tired of messing with random-like settings. After all, the only thing you're likely to be doing with the single driver with 80Hz highpass response is removing low frequencies. It should be better to only be removing the low frequency peak(s) that are causing you problems.
Please don't kill me for the following question!
Could be a (temporary) decent solution to use a 4 channel power amp from car audio world? I am dust at car audio so I really dont know the quality involved in this area, but the price for a 4x110W/4ohm is arround 200 usd
For temporary use
Buy used car amplifier/s cheap as chips with in built adjustable crossover
Connect to a car battery that's fully charged and also on charge by a charger to the mains.
Do not overdrive too loud just get a feel of potential
When I came here for advice, I was running an open baffle 2way eminence alpha 15a and a grundig for mid/highs, the sound was brilliant and opened my eyes to the mass produced lack luster
I am still learning and experimenting,acquired 4x. Qsc 1450 amplifiers 2 of 2x4 minidsp and a bit of orange juice jbl drivers,
My next step is a synergy/unity point source horn of some descript
Bigger is better no point fanying about with little monkey coffins
My next step is a synergy/unity point source horn of some descript
Bigger is better no point fanying about with little monkey coffins
Hey, Synergy point sources can be in little monkey coffins, too!
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/292379-small-syns.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/285030-bookshelf-multi-way-point-source-horn.html
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Thank you very much for the ideas and advices ... now I will ask again for your time
So, I have started to look arround for some second hand PA amplifiers and active crossovers ... being tight on budget I will start with such a solution.
I understand that the amp for highs does not need to be the same power as amp for lows! And now I am wondering what scale / difference in power output is acceptable for those 2 amps?
It will be arround 8dB difference between horn-CD and the 15 inch driver ...
I found some PA amplifier deals and I have to decide fast what to buy:
Crown XLS 202 at 140usd (2x200W/8ohm, will be ok for 15 inch amplification?)
Phonic Max 250 at 100usd (2x60W/8ohm, will be ok for horn-CD amplification?)
For this new project I will first start with a second hand active crossover (if all goes well i will upgrade to miniDSP), and also found some deals:
Ashly XR-1001 for 100usd
DBX 234XL for 170usd
Phonic PCR-2213 for 80usd
What should I choose from all these to start a 2 way bi-amping with active crossover?
First I will test all these with my present 2 way speakers ... by the way, did I show some pictures with actual diy speakers? If someone curious I attach some ...
So, I have started to look arround for some second hand PA amplifiers and active crossovers ... being tight on budget I will start with such a solution.
I understand that the amp for highs does not need to be the same power as amp for lows! And now I am wondering what scale / difference in power output is acceptable for those 2 amps?
It will be arround 8dB difference between horn-CD and the 15 inch driver ...
I found some PA amplifier deals and I have to decide fast what to buy:
Crown XLS 202 at 140usd (2x200W/8ohm, will be ok for 15 inch amplification?)
Phonic Max 250 at 100usd (2x60W/8ohm, will be ok for horn-CD amplification?)
For this new project I will first start with a second hand active crossover (if all goes well i will upgrade to miniDSP), and also found some deals:
Ashly XR-1001 for 100usd
DBX 234XL for 170usd
Phonic PCR-2213 for 80usd
What should I choose from all these to start a 2 way bi-amping with active crossover?
First I will test all these with my present 2 way speakers ... by the way, did I show some pictures with actual diy speakers? If someone curious I attach some ...
Attachments
For pa amp there is one thing to be aware of: being (relatively) high power device they often needs cooling (by fan) and this can be a problem if you don't have a place outside the listening area to place them.
So before spending cash, try to find one of the model you are interested in and listen to it in action to hear if this is a potential source of issue.
For amp choice, remember each time you double power you gain +3db from your driver sensitivity (excluding some artefact and issues with driver as thermal compression,etc,etc,... thats a rule of thumb,eg: driver sens 95dbspl/1w/1m, for 1w you have 95dbspl at 1m, for 2w: 98dbspl, for 4w: 101dbspl, 8w:104dbspl, 16w 107dbspl, 32w: 110dbspl, etc,etc,...).
Each time you double the distance from your driver to listening position you loose 6db: if your listening position is 1m away from loudspeaker (same one used before 95dbspl/1w/1m) you'll have 95dbspl at listening position for 1w of power used, if you are at 2m with 1 watt used you'll have 89dbspl, at 4m 83dbspl,etc,etc...
In a room you'll not have exactly this behavior as there is other things at work: you've got what is called a critical distance which is the point where the direct radiating soundfield and the reverberant soundfield meet at -6db. Once you have past this point the global spl stop to decrease and stay more or less constant wherever you are in the room.
Obviously, this critical distance is room dependant so it can only be either approximated or empiricaly found. To give you an order of scale in small or medium room (european style, in US you have somewhat larger room than in EU,...) it will be in the vicinity of 1meter.
Well, all that to tell you that power needed will vary with:
_ your listening position;
_ your habits about listening level;
_ your room.
So you 'll have to do some calculation to determine overall power needed. Just keep in mind that having headroom with your amplifier is a good thing: 3 to 6db is a good thing (so double to four time the power needed for your maximum listening level).
For the CD amplifier (high), you could go with studio amplifier like the Amcron/Crown D-75a you'll probably never run out of power and being studio units they are passively cooled: so no noise. It should be easy to source second hand if you re in the USA as they where standard studio gear that studio tend to get rid of.
For the filter, don't forget behringer dcx 2496 dsp second hand, should be in the same price range than the unit you linked but probably with more feature (including delay wich could be handy in some filter type, in fact very close to what a minidsp can do) but with it's own set of issues: the major one being the output level being to hot for amp, but nothing a couple of resistor, a proto board and a soldering iron can't cope with for the lows, for the high part being a CD in your loudspeaker the dcx's output may be potentially annoying as noisefloor could be an issue, but i can't tell you more about that you'll need to test one to be sure.
So before spending cash, try to find one of the model you are interested in and listen to it in action to hear if this is a potential source of issue.
For amp choice, remember each time you double power you gain +3db from your driver sensitivity (excluding some artefact and issues with driver as thermal compression,etc,etc,... thats a rule of thumb,eg: driver sens 95dbspl/1w/1m, for 1w you have 95dbspl at 1m, for 2w: 98dbspl, for 4w: 101dbspl, 8w:104dbspl, 16w 107dbspl, 32w: 110dbspl, etc,etc,...).
Each time you double the distance from your driver to listening position you loose 6db: if your listening position is 1m away from loudspeaker (same one used before 95dbspl/1w/1m) you'll have 95dbspl at listening position for 1w of power used, if you are at 2m with 1 watt used you'll have 89dbspl, at 4m 83dbspl,etc,etc...
In a room you'll not have exactly this behavior as there is other things at work: you've got what is called a critical distance which is the point where the direct radiating soundfield and the reverberant soundfield meet at -6db. Once you have past this point the global spl stop to decrease and stay more or less constant wherever you are in the room.
Obviously, this critical distance is room dependant so it can only be either approximated or empiricaly found. To give you an order of scale in small or medium room (european style, in US you have somewhat larger room than in EU,...) it will be in the vicinity of 1meter.
Well, all that to tell you that power needed will vary with:
_ your listening position;
_ your habits about listening level;
_ your room.
So you 'll have to do some calculation to determine overall power needed. Just keep in mind that having headroom with your amplifier is a good thing: 3 to 6db is a good thing (so double to four time the power needed for your maximum listening level).
For the CD amplifier (high), you could go with studio amplifier like the Amcron/Crown D-75a you'll probably never run out of power and being studio units they are passively cooled: so no noise. It should be easy to source second hand if you re in the USA as they where standard studio gear that studio tend to get rid of.
For the filter, don't forget behringer dcx 2496 dsp second hand, should be in the same price range than the unit you linked but probably with more feature (including delay wich could be handy in some filter type, in fact very close to what a minidsp can do) but with it's own set of issues: the major one being the output level being to hot for amp, but nothing a couple of resistor, a proto board and a soldering iron can't cope with for the lows, for the high part being a CD in your loudspeaker the dcx's output may be potentially annoying as noisefloor could be an issue, but i can't tell you more about that you'll need to test one to be sure.
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If you go MiniDSP: I'm using the 2x4 HD in a new project and it sounds very good (really very good) driven from USB. Note there's no S/PDIF input (but toslink instead). You'll need an IR remote control for volume and switching inputs.
For a two-way with 15", I've used the QSC PL-000446GP horn, which is excellent but seems to be out of production now. Both your choices look like they can work crossed around 1200. But it's hard to tell a good horn without listening to it.
For a two-way with 15", I've used the QSC PL-000446GP horn, which is excellent but seems to be out of production now. Both your choices look like they can work crossed around 1200. But it's hard to tell a good horn without listening to it.
My source is a diy mediaplayer, actualy a PC with Windows and Kodi ... output is from video board HDMI (raw signal) to HDMI input of my Yamaha AV Receiver (all decoders), that is set to output only 2 front channel without any other effects, just stereo. Yamaha also has pre-outs signals for power amplifiers.
My plan is to go from Yamaha's RCA out to XLR ins (cable adaptor needed) from active crossover Ashly XR-1001, than the 15 inches drivers will be amplified by the Crown XLS 202 and the tweeters by ... don't know yet!
Due to budget restriction I think about Alesis RA 150 amplifier for compression tweeters.
That is for the moment the setup. Still a lot to do. I have to sell my present speakers and some other ...
I am listening a lot to rock live concerts (all stored in my HDD), various formats and decoders (dvd, blu-ray, dts, dd, dts-hd, dolby -stereo, etc) and Yamaha helps me decoding and summing in 2 channels. I have tried with other mediaplayers to decode and summing to stereo inside the mediaplayer, than to output audio stereo analogic from the mediaplayer ... is an audio quality desaster compared to output digital raw signal from mediaplayer and let Yamaha AV Receiver do the decoding and 2 channel summing.
My plan is to go from Yamaha's RCA out to XLR ins (cable adaptor needed) from active crossover Ashly XR-1001, than the 15 inches drivers will be amplified by the Crown XLS 202 and the tweeters by ... don't know yet!
Due to budget restriction I think about Alesis RA 150 amplifier for compression tweeters.
That is for the moment the setup. Still a lot to do. I have to sell my present speakers and some other ...
I am listening a lot to rock live concerts (all stored in my HDD), various formats and decoders (dvd, blu-ray, dts, dd, dts-hd, dolby -stereo, etc) and Yamaha helps me decoding and summing in 2 channels. I have tried with other mediaplayers to decode and summing to stereo inside the mediaplayer, than to output audio stereo analogic from the mediaplayer ... is an audio quality desaster compared to output digital raw signal from mediaplayer and let Yamaha AV Receiver do the decoding and 2 channel summing.
I like the crown XLS offerings ( the 1500 model and numerically higher). Heavy on power, light on wallet.
Everything is laid out for you in this kit, easy as pie to assemble then finish you your liking. Fusion-15 Sentinel DIY Sound Group
I know Fusion projects, SEOS waveguides ... but in this dark corner of Europe, the poor country I live in, nothing arrives here! Anyway they don't ship directly to me, I have to find my own shipper and the cost is so high overseas ...
BTW, what similar options do I have to a SEOS 15 (or 12) to buy an affordable horn (for 1" Beyma CP380M) in a 2 way with 15 inch driver?
RCF H100 ?
P Audio PH-2370 ?
Dayton Audio H812 ? (i can get it from Germany, at least I hope so!)
other options?
Regarding the electronics, yes , PA amps will be:
Crown XLS 202 for woofers
Alesis RA150 for tweeters
Ashly XR-1001 for active crossovers
In a not to far future (I hope) maybe I can get an Anthem PVA4 , 4x125W
Anthem | PVA Series | PVA 4 | Overview
Anyone using this amp? I know they do nice amps but expensive ... well that PVA4 I might get it arround 950 usd ... brand new!
BTW, what similar options do I have to a SEOS 15 (or 12) to buy an affordable horn (for 1" Beyma CP380M) in a 2 way with 15 inch driver?
RCF H100 ?
P Audio PH-2370 ?
Dayton Audio H812 ? (i can get it from Germany, at least I hope so!)
other options?
Regarding the electronics, yes , PA amps will be:
Crown XLS 202 for woofers
Alesis RA150 for tweeters
Ashly XR-1001 for active crossovers
In a not to far future (I hope) maybe I can get an Anthem PVA4 , 4x125W
Anthem | PVA Series | PVA 4 | Overview
Anyone using this amp? I know they do nice amps but expensive ... well that PVA4 I might get it arround 950 usd ... brand new!
If you're not afraid of 60x40 and 1.4" - pay attention to the eighteen sound XT1464.
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