Yes, I thought about using glues and epoxy.
But the problem is that I wanted to use powder coating and recently I discoverd that even solder use may be marginable due to the temperatures required to make the powder coating to flowout properly.
jer
I would investigate some of the silver brazing rods, they have a much higher melting temperature. Some of them can still be melted with a suitable propane torch but check with the supplier to make sure that it is suitable to use with the aluminium frame. Also don't limit yourself about heat sources, I have always been amazed at what can be done on the domestic stove (both gas and electric) under the correct circumstances (wife a long, long, way away). I would also check with your powder coater to ensure he can get a good result with anodised aluminium.
Most of the extruded aluminium sections I have bought from hardware stores have not been anodised (including the piece I used in the demonstration) while most of the insect screen frame extrusions I have seen are anodised silver, so it would pay to be sure.
Regards,
Bob
Yes,He provided me with a very good sample of the mesh powder coated.
But the first sample he had rolled into a tube and this had caused micro cracks in the coating and rendered the sample useless.
The second sample was good and is what I made those panels with.
The sample was quite brittle after the PC was applied and the connecting tabs eventualy broke off.
So,that it is where the idea to make the unit as a whole before the coating is applied came from, In order to eliminate any extra unneeded flexing of the material.
Any idea's and suggestions will be welcomed as I have been trying to come up with a process that the average DIYer can do and come up with a decent product since 2003.
I have been running a 6.5Kv bias on these panels with no major issues yet and the performance has been incredible.
jer
But the first sample he had rolled into a tube and this had caused micro cracks in the coating and rendered the sample useless.
The second sample was good and is what I made those panels with.
The sample was quite brittle after the PC was applied and the connecting tabs eventualy broke off.
So,that it is where the idea to make the unit as a whole before the coating is applied came from, In order to eliminate any extra unneeded flexing of the material.
Any idea's and suggestions will be welcomed as I have been trying to come up with a process that the average DIYer can do and come up with a decent product since 2003.
I have been running a 6.5Kv bias on these panels with no major issues yet and the performance has been incredible.
jer
There are companies making aluminum products for torch "soldering" aluminum. They look like some aluminum alloy rods. You use a small hot torch like a butane torch or a MAPP torch (using cans from your local hardwre store, but hotter than a butane torch) and these rods...the technique is similar to brazing except you do scratch with the rods quite a bit, probably scratching thru any oxide layer. Do a search online. I don't know whether the rods have any kind of flux. There used to be some interesting infomercials on TV, might still be on youtube. I never tried it, since my friend Bobby next door has a huge TIG, and is a real aritisan, epsecially with stainless. On lesson with TIG on aluminum: it uses a LOT of current because it needs a lot of heat because it conducts heat away so well. For welding on my motorcycle frames, swingarms, and for stage lighting trusses I use aluminum MIG instead of TIG, shooting MIG wire (with Argon, not CO2) really makes a big fillet quickly compared to the delicacy of dipping your rod into a pool and controlling the heat with your foot pedal on a TIG. MIG I just set voltage for desired arc distance and the wire speed is kind of like current...
Anodizing: Home anodizing is pretty easy too. Can use a battery or power supply and tub of acid. Cheaper than plating. Differnce between hard anodizing and decorative anodizing is how slowly and large you grow the crystals. Then you can color the oxide crystal layer with ordinary RIT fabric dye. No matter what dye you use, it's still difficult to get dark colors not to fade in UV sunlight.
Removing anodizing: Most aluminum stock sold at your hardware store is anodized so it looks pretty and stores well on the shelf. Otherwise you have to go to your metal distributor for raw aluminum. But people who polish anodized motorcycle parts like motorcycle frames etc. learn quickly not to try to sand or polish thru the anodized layer. Instead, you spray on some lye, in the form of easy-off oven cleaner. Be sure to use the original lye easy-off, and not cheaper generic or easy on your hands organic or anything. The cheap brands don't work well. I like to warm up the frame in the sun, then spray on the lye, rotate, spray again, spray again, then hose it off, then dry and warm it in the sun, spray again a few times. The anodized layer will become a thin softer black coating. You can easily sand off the black layer, but might unintentionally scratch the aluminum (assuming you want to polish it) so use fine-grit wet-or-dry with water.
Anodizing: Home anodizing is pretty easy too. Can use a battery or power supply and tub of acid. Cheaper than plating. Differnce between hard anodizing and decorative anodizing is how slowly and large you grow the crystals. Then you can color the oxide crystal layer with ordinary RIT fabric dye. No matter what dye you use, it's still difficult to get dark colors not to fade in UV sunlight.
Removing anodizing: Most aluminum stock sold at your hardware store is anodized so it looks pretty and stores well on the shelf. Otherwise you have to go to your metal distributor for raw aluminum. But people who polish anodized motorcycle parts like motorcycle frames etc. learn quickly not to try to sand or polish thru the anodized layer. Instead, you spray on some lye, in the form of easy-off oven cleaner. Be sure to use the original lye easy-off, and not cheaper generic or easy on your hands organic or anything. The cheap brands don't work well. I like to warm up the frame in the sun, then spray on the lye, rotate, spray again, spray again, then hose it off, then dry and warm it in the sun, spray again a few times. The anodized layer will become a thin softer black coating. You can easily sand off the black layer, but might unintentionally scratch the aluminum (assuming you want to polish it) so use fine-grit wet-or-dry with water.
Yes,I have seen the stuff it is called Alumaweld and it is $40 a pound and they refuse to send me a sample stick to try for my application.
I have seen a live demo of it ,But not on an application such as mine.
As I have mentioned earlier I have a TIG welder,But I have not yet invested in the argon setup yet.
So, I am looking into possible cheaper alternatives although there may not be any.
jer
I have seen a live demo of it ,But not on an application such as mine.
As I have mentioned earlier I have a TIG welder,But I have not yet invested in the argon setup yet.
So, I am looking into possible cheaper alternatives although there may not be any.
jer
Thanks for the tip. I have received the 1260 flux and the 91%Tin 9% Zinc solder. I will try it on aluminium foil.
Bruno
bad info
This is incorrect. There are no "crystals" grown during anodizing, and the difference between "hard" anodizing and "regular" anodizing is not about the size of the non-existant crystals.
John L.
This is incorrect. There are no "crystals" grown during anodizing, and the difference between "hard" anodizing and "regular" anodizing is not about the size of the non-existant crystals.
John L.
Works with aluminium foil.
Tip: Hammer the end of a piece of wire solder into a flat shape and place it between the two pieces of foil to solder. Works also for soldering aluminium foil onto copper foil.
Bruno
I use a product call Alumiweld, first saw id at a electronics trade show may years back. I found it at my local Harbor Freight store which sells only cheap Chinese tools and supplies, and after all do we really want our good tools to be resold when we die at a yard sale for a buck???
The Alumiweld in short is a AWESOME product. I have used it to weld my frames to a nothing short of professional look and bond. There is a learning curve in using this product as it was mentioned in this forum that it is "scratched on to both bonding surfaces. I cant say enough about this product but it has saved me the cost of a "professional welder" doing it for many of my ESL builds!
Aluminum Welding Rods - Pack of 8
The Alumiweld in short is a AWESOME product. I have used it to weld my frames to a nothing short of professional look and bond. There is a learning curve in using this product as it was mentioned in this forum that it is "scratched on to both bonding surfaces. I cant say enough about this product but it has saved me the cost of a "professional welder" doing it for many of my ESL builds!
Aluminum Welding Rods - Pack of 8
Hi geraldfryjr,
Having read about these aluminium brazing products here, I did a quick Google search and found a number of similar products.
I think this post give a pretty good overview:
Alumi-Weld test/review - WeldingWeb™ - Welding forum for pros and enthusiasts
As far as I can tell the cheapest available product will probably be good enough for the type of joint you need.
This is all so far from the intent of my original post but it has been quite fascinating and useful.
Regards,
Bob
BTW
It would be interesting to determine the constituents of these alloy rods as it appears that no fluxes are involved in the process
Having read about these aluminium brazing products here, I did a quick Google search and found a number of similar products.
I think this post give a pretty good overview:
Alumi-Weld test/review - WeldingWeb™ - Welding forum for pros and enthusiasts
As far as I can tell the cheapest available product will probably be good enough for the type of joint you need.
This is all so far from the intent of my original post but it has been quite fascinating and useful.
Regards,
Bob
BTW
It would be interesting to determine the constituents of these alloy rods as it appears that no fluxes are involved in the process
copy+paste -
Resistance soldering
Resistance soldering is unlike using a conduction iron, where heat is produced within an element and then passed through a thermally conductive tip into the joint area. A cold soldering iron requires time to reach working temperature and must be kept hot between solder joints. Thermal transfer may be inhibited if the tip is not kept properly wetted during use. With resistance soldering an intense heat can be rapidly developed directly within the joint area and in a tightly controlled manner. This allows a faster ramp up to the required solder melt temperature and minimizes thermal travel away from the solder joint, which helps to minimize the potential for thermal damage to materials or components in the surrounding area. Heat is only produced while each joint is being made, making resistance soldering more energy efficient. Resistance soldering equipment, unlike conduction irons, can be used for difficult soldering and brazing applications where significantly higher temperatures may be required. This makes resistance comparable to flame soldering in some situations. When the required temperature can be achieved by either flame or resistance methods the resistance heat is more localized because of direct contact, whereas the flame will spread thus heating a potentially larger area.
Soldering - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
connection of wire to aluminum foil?
Hi there B: Could a wire connection to aluminum foil be made using your "trick".
Proposed connection-treat the end of a foil tape (about 5 to 7mm wide x 12mm long) with Superior #1260 solution, fold the tape over the solder with a wire end included, heat the foil packet externally. ....regards, Michael
Hi there B: Could a wire connection to aluminum foil be made using your "trick".
Proposed connection-treat the end of a foil tape (about 5 to 7mm wide x 12mm long) with Superior #1260 solution, fold the tape over the solder with a wire end included, heat the foil packet externally. ....regards, Michael
I use TechnoWeld, which is a diiferent company, but the same idea. Repairs to motorcycle brake levers, which need to be strong, and engine casings, which get hot, have worked well. The weld (or braze, I don't know the correct title) is harder than the original aly, so filing or sanding smooth takes some care. Good stuff if used correctly; removing aly oxide is essential.Have you ever tried a product called alumi-weld I have never tried it myself but I have seen a live demo on it and it is amazing stuff.
jer
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.