Nuuk said:
I thought my stepped attenuator presented in this thread was rather good. It features fixed (so it's permanently in a signal path, without additional switching) 5K resistor consisting of 10k tantalum and 10k Vishay S102 (in parallel) and old type Holcos being switched in shunt position only.
I tried some carbon resistors before (not too many though), but I never liked their sound. They were veiled and dull, sort of like Cat5 cable.
Every resistor has a sonic signature.
On the stepped attenuator, even que quality of the switch may be an issue...
A pot is a variable resistor.
It can be made to have good quality too.
When comparing a pot with a stepped attenuator you are only comparing that pot with that stepped attenuator, particularly the switch and resistors used.
We can't generalize the results.
On the stepped attenuator, even que quality of the switch may be an issue...
A pot is a variable resistor.
It can be made to have good quality too.
When comparing a pot with a stepped attenuator you are only comparing that pot with that stepped attenuator, particularly the switch and resistors used.
We can't generalize the results.
Actually I was also inserting the pots between the output of my passive TVC preamp and the amp. This gives a better idea of how neutral a given attenuator is.
As to the part about every resistor having sonic signature, I'm quite puzzled the other member didn't observe much difference between two versions of the kit
As to the part about every resistor having sonic signature, I'm quite puzzled the other member didn't observe much difference between two versions of the kit
Peter Daniel said:As to the part about every resistor having sonic signature, I'm quite puzzled the other member didn't observe much difference between two versions of the kit
The two versions of the kit may have a small sonic difference between each other.
I suppose it's not night and day?
It may pass unnoticed to several people.
That member admitted that the BGs need to
-in.I don't know what's the point, as we are talking volume pots and it seams quite a different matter to me.
Volume pots make a huge difference, much more than a "red" or a "green" type resistor on the amp's circuit.
carlosfm said:
The point is that I started this thread, and I can discuss anything I want here.
Sometimes two (different) resistors make bigger difference than two different pots, especially if they are inserted in a feedback loop.
Besides, talking about resistors and sound of resistors, is pretty much on topic here.
Also talking about perception and ability to distinguish different sounds is part of the topic here.
Well the difference was more apparent to my friend who was auditioning with me. Perhaps it's just my ears, but I have a sneaky suspicion that the speakers we were using just didn't have enough resolution to show up the differences easily, especially since after the comparisson we switched to better speakers and heard much more detail (albeit with a different (not better) amp).
Precisely. And I don't think it possibly can be.
Peter, you're right, it's your thread.
You can help "the other member" posting your impressions of the two kits on his thread.
Back to pots then.
You agree that you are comparing with your stepped attenuator, then?
Because some members misunderstood what you said, I think you are not generalizing that the PEC pot is better than a stepped attenuator.
You can help "the other member" posting your impressions of the two kits on his thread.
Back to pots then.
You agree that you are comparing with your stepped attenuator, then?
Because some members misunderstood what you said, I think you are not generalizing that the PEC pot is better than a stepped attenuator.
That's perfectly understandable. But I also suspect that when listening to unknown amp it is much harder to distinguish the difference, when actually comparing amps knowing which one is playing.Vikash said:
Well, some people might say this is not a correct way of detecting differences, but I am not into science and I couldn't perform my comparisons in blinded method. My perception is simple blinded then too, and I would be much less efficient in telling one from the other.
carlosfm said:
Of course, I was only comparing what was in a picture. Other stepped attenuators might be much better and possibly outperform PEC pot. That should be clear to everybody.
I would be interested myself in some other well sounded switching units.
To some people though, it seems like any stepped attenuator is a key to better sound. It's simply not the case and in many instances a regular pot may sound actually better.
Variac said:
In San Fran it should be easy to score a couple from a surplus house to see how you like them. The only thing I consistently believe I hear bypassing the passive and feeding the amp directly with the DAC is a slight increase in treble energy. I don't know if it's the wirewound specifically or the passive's extra interconnects, switching and internal wiring which causes the effect.
Looking forward to hearing what you hear!
Great findings, Peter. Thanks again.
Looks like the Alphas would be great in a portable headphone unit or in an amp that doesn't have too much space in it. Or a very compact Gainclone?
The PEC pots are intruiging. I do hope they make and sell a stereo version of this pot somewhere. After hearing your and Brian Cherry's impressions of this pot, I'm sure a lot of people will want to try them out.
Barring that, the dual mono route may be the only solution.
One thing I never liked about using dual mono pots that don't have detents is that it's really hard to accurately balance the channels when changing volume. I have this problem in my Sun SV-300BE. Especially on very efficient speakers - you have to tweak back and forth until the image falls into place.
Brian or Peter, do you know if the log version sounds the same as the linear version?
Look forward to trying these out, hopefully a stereo version if it's available.
Best,
KT
Looks like the Alphas would be great in a portable headphone unit or in an amp that doesn't have too much space in it. Or a very compact Gainclone?
The PEC pots are intruiging. I do hope they make and sell a stereo version of this pot somewhere. After hearing your and Brian Cherry's impressions of this pot, I'm sure a lot of people will want to try them out.
Barring that, the dual mono route may be the only solution.
One thing I never liked about using dual mono pots that don't have detents is that it's really hard to accurately balance the channels when changing volume. I have this problem in my Sun SV-300BE. Especially on very efficient speakers - you have to tweak back and forth until the image falls into place.
Brian or Peter, do you know if the log version sounds the same as the linear version?
Look forward to trying these out, hopefully a stereo version if it's available.
Best,
KT
Peter, thanks for the reference to PEC.
For what it's worth, "Hobby Hifi 2/2004" (Germany) did a big potentiometer shoot-out recently. Top marks went to a "super-conductive plastic potentiometer" distributed by Thel Audio World, and a digital pot from Steinmusic.
Scroll down on the "Potis" page of the Thel.de website
http://www.thel-audioworld.de/bauteile/regler/Potis.htm
to CP-2500 and you will see photos of the plastic pot. It measures small and will fit into small Gainclones and headphone amps very nicely. I have not heard it, but some friends rave that it is very, very good.
If anyone knows the name of the manufacturer, I would love to know, since this information is not provided by Thel
just that it is "from Japan."
For what it's worth, "Hobby Hifi 2/2004" (Germany) did a big potentiometer shoot-out recently. Top marks went to a "super-conductive plastic potentiometer" distributed by Thel Audio World, and a digital pot from Steinmusic.
Scroll down on the "Potis" page of the Thel.de website
http://www.thel-audioworld.de/bauteile/regler/Potis.htm
to CP-2500 and you will see photos of the plastic pot. It measures small and will fit into small Gainclones and headphone amps very nicely. I have not heard it, but some friends rave that it is very, very good.
If anyone knows the name of the manufacturer, I would love to know, since this information is not provided by Thel
just that it is "from Japan."For those of you looking for the PEC pots:
I picked up a pair of 25k linear PEC pots last week at Frys (linear pots work well for my bass amp application). If you have a Fry's Electronics near you and you can use linear pots, check under the NTE Electronics label. This would be mostly in California, the West, and Texas.
Since NTE resells the pots, it also looks like it might be easier to buy small amounts via NTE vendors. This looks like probably the best way to get the pots!
For example, see:
http://www.ba-electronics.com/nte-pots.htm
http://www.lashen.com/vendors/nte/Default.asp
http://www.action-electronics.com/pots.htm
etc...
I picked up a pair of 25k linear PEC pots last week at Frys (linear pots work well for my bass amp application). If you have a Fry's Electronics near you and you can use linear pots, check under the NTE Electronics label. This would be mostly in California, the West, and Texas.
Since NTE resells the pots, it also looks like it might be easier to buy small amounts via NTE vendors. This looks like probably the best way to get the pots!
For example, see:
http://www.ba-electronics.com/nte-pots.htm
http://www.lashen.com/vendors/nte/Default.asp
http://www.action-electronics.com/pots.htm
etc...
DACT Attenuators
Folks:
Consider this: I recently purchased four DACT stereo attenuators, eight knobs and eight extension kits from www.audiocomponents.nl at a price that really shocked me; that said, the delivery charge for the shipment from Denmark to the U.S. was steep. The price per attenuator was under $80, as I recall. Given that the retail price in the U.S. is twice that, this was a real bargain. Excellent value for the price.
Regards to all,
Scott
Folks:
Consider this: I recently purchased four DACT stereo attenuators, eight knobs and eight extension kits from www.audiocomponents.nl at a price that really shocked me; that said, the delivery charge for the shipment from Denmark to the U.S. was steep. The price per attenuator was under $80, as I recall. Given that the retail price in the U.S. is twice that, this was a real bargain. Excellent value for the price.
Regards to all,
Scott
The dual PEC pots can be bought from Electrosonic in Canada- www.e-sonic.com Do a "search by manufacturer",and select Precision electronics. It seems,though,that they only stock a few different values,and that there would be a minimum order for the values not stocked.
Carlos:
You bet. Audiocomponents.nl had the DACT stereo attenuators in all of the impedences (10k, 20k, 50k, 100k) in stock. I wanted the 20k version, which is a little unusual, and they had at least 4 on hand, 'cause I got 'em. The package arrived in about a week and everything was there (I bought about $600 worth of stuff from them). The attenuators are regular, properly packaged, brand new stock. Audiocomponents.nl is all right in my book, and I highly recommend them to anyone looking for DACT components.
Regards,
Scott
You bet. Audiocomponents.nl had the DACT stereo attenuators in all of the impedences (10k, 20k, 50k, 100k) in stock. I wanted the 20k version, which is a little unusual, and they had at least 4 on hand, 'cause I got 'em. The package arrived in about a week and everything was there (I bought about $600 worth of stuff from them). The attenuators are regular, properly packaged, brand new stock. Audiocomponents.nl is all right in my book, and I highly recommend them to anyone looking for DACT components.
Regards,
Scott
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