Is it possible these days to make any money from building loudspeakers? Not as a huge business, just selling the odd pair..
If I could get the cabinets professionally made & nice looking, a speaker that cost say �0„5500 to make could probably sell for �0„51000 and probably beat anything commercial for that much
Even selling just one every month would be a helpful income boost, and hopefully word of mouth between quite well off people will improve business
The intention of this isn't a huge money making venture, just a little money on the side.. (and the enjoyment of building speakers)
Edit: If your browser has trouble showing the pound symbol make sure your browser is set to Western encoding
If I could get the cabinets professionally made & nice looking, a speaker that cost say �0„5500 to make could probably sell for �0„51000 and probably beat anything commercial for that much
Even selling just one every month would be a helpful income boost, and hopefully word of mouth between quite well off people will improve business
The intention of this isn't a huge money making venture, just a little money on the side.. (and the enjoyment of building speakers)
Edit: If your browser has trouble showing the pound symbol make sure your browser is set to Western encoding
bigwill said:
I think the way to find out is to build a couple of pairs, spread the word around friends that you are selling, and take it from there. If the speakers are good and decent looking your friends will do the advertising. If it grows, it grows. If it doesn't, then you have at least tried it.
That's my 5 öre.
Taco said:
Good point.
Brand is everything to the average consumer. Its the whole reason why average speaker manufacturers with a long history and many glowing reviews continue to expand their user base. It doesn't matter that you could get more for your money because the brand and the looks are what count for most folks.
If you use well known and well respected drive units thats a good start. Build them pretty and market them with lots enthusiasm would also help. You'd also need to be able to demo them to prospective buyers.
It going to be tough though. As an example, look at Linkwitz's Orion. One of the better loudspeaker around yet most folks would laugh at it and go buy a pair of B&W.
As an experienced salesman told me:
Make the prettiest box you can, with whatever cheap/junk drivers and cheapest crossover you can find. Anyway, nobody care about the sound!
it's exagerated, but still partly true. Bose is still a reference in quality audio for most people.
My experience is that very few people will spend serious money on a unknown brand loudspeaker unless they know you personnaly. So it's better start with cheaper stuff... and make it look pretty.
Make the prettiest box you can, with whatever cheap/junk drivers and cheapest crossover you can find. Anyway, nobody care about the sound!
it's exagerated, but still partly true. Bose is still a reference in quality audio for most people.
My experience is that very few people will spend serious money on a unknown brand loudspeaker unless they know you personnaly. So it's better start with cheaper stuff... and make it look pretty.
I suspect it's possible, but you'd have to target a niche, and keep a very tight focus on that. For example, there would be no point whatsoever in doing yet another de-rigure T/S alignment bass reflex design. The market is overflowing with the blasted things, and you cannot challenge the big box-shifters.
What might be a better move would be to offer cabinets, or completed speakers, for existing popular DIY designs for those with limited resources and expertise. To cite one example, Dave, Chris, Scott, myself & all involved with Planet10-hifi have offered numerous designs up: the Frugal-horn, Spawn-horns etc., as full open-source projects & encourage local cottage industry to build them for the community, no strings attached, other than you let us know what's going on -see www.frugal-horn.com for full designs & everything else -belive me, all the designs offered look striking. This would fit nicely to your description: not a big money-making venture, but enjoyable, and a little on the side, so to speak.
What might be a better move would be to offer cabinets, or completed speakers, for existing popular DIY designs for those with limited resources and expertise. To cite one example, Dave, Chris, Scott, myself & all involved with Planet10-hifi have offered numerous designs up: the Frugal-horn, Spawn-horns etc., as full open-source projects & encourage local cottage industry to build them for the community, no strings attached, other than you let us know what's going on -see www.frugal-horn.com for full designs & everything else -belive me, all the designs offered look striking. This would fit nicely to your description: not a big money-making venture, but enjoyable, and a little on the side, so to speak.
The market needs another conventional speaker like a moose needs a hat-stand.
If you go the conventional dealer-sales route you will be up against true mass-market opposition, and it will be a rough ride. Also remember that dealers add a 40% (more or less) mark-up, which needs to be figured into your plans.
However there may be scope at the very opposite ends of the scale, either in the DIY market or in the bespoke build / consultant role. The brand marketing for these is mutually exclusive, so you need to decide on your path before taking your first step.
It is possible to start with high-quality finished-goods and then trickle-down into DIY (witness Nelson Pass) but much more difficult to go the other way if the brand is first linked to DIY.
Also consider what drives and influences the minds of the magazine critics / reviewers / publishers... it may not be as black-and-white as you first think.
It's not an impossible road to travel, but one which requires direction, motivation and an open mind.
Good luck.
If you go the conventional dealer-sales route you will be up against true mass-market opposition, and it will be a rough ride. Also remember that dealers add a 40% (more or less) mark-up, which needs to be figured into your plans.
However there may be scope at the very opposite ends of the scale, either in the DIY market or in the bespoke build / consultant role. The brand marketing for these is mutually exclusive, so you need to decide on your path before taking your first step.
It is possible to start with high-quality finished-goods and then trickle-down into DIY (witness Nelson Pass) but much more difficult to go the other way if the brand is first linked to DIY.
Also consider what drives and influences the minds of the magazine critics / reviewers / publishers... it may not be as black-and-white as you first think.
It's not an impossible road to travel, but one which requires direction, motivation and an open mind.
Good luck.
Just off the top of my head, after a grueling day's work designing electronic systems for my own business (and keep in mind that I'm not an expert at either business or sales):
Your original idea of selling to "quite well off" people, and maybe making and selling only one or two pairs per month on average, might be the niche to go after. You probably wouldn't enjoy trying to sell to people with little to spend, unless you want to do it all for charity's sake, or for experience only. (And after all, you can't make it go with "lower price and higher volume", if you're doing it by yourself, or on a small scale. So the opposite end of the spectrum is one obvious answer.)
And if you are selling only a few, you can certainly afford to sell only to "the few" (who have plenty of money and are audio junkies), and forget the rest.
If you know or can find someone who frequently spends a lot of money on audio equipment (and who hopefully also knows others like himself), try to ask for his opinion of your speakers; probably lend him a pair, if he's willing. And if you make "really-great" speakers, or you can dazzle people, you might sell some. Don't underestimate word-of-mouth, especially in that type of niche market (and maybe be prepared to build and sell in "spurts" of more than one or two a month, at times). [Later, similarly, after you have had some successes, perhaps you could send some to a chosen reviewer at an appropriate magazine, for example, or someone else whose opinion will be heard, if you want to expand your niche a little.]
And although you think that you might be able to make them for much less than comparable speakers sell for, a low price is not the best selling tool, in a high-end niche. A price that is too low might actually hurt your sales (Remember, it's part of "the image" of your product; expensive = good and cheap = bad.). And it would certainly make it more difficult for your business to remain viable, much less thrive. I'm just guessing, but, a better strategy might be to price your speakers about the same as some popular, very-expensive ones, that yours obviously beat. After a few sales, you might have enough saved to start making an even better product.
If your price is high, as it should be in that niche market, you should be able to easily afford to have glorious cabinets made, by fine craftsmen. (If you wanted to sell them for much less, then YOU might need to be the craftsman, just to keep your costs down. [But someday, hopefully, you'll be at the point where you'd charge much more if you made them yourself than if you had them made by someone else.])
There will be a fair amount of work, and luck, involved. You will need to do your homework well, in more ways than one. A great design and resulting product are very, very important. But you'll also want to become as familiar as possible with your targeted market and its "culture" (which cannot be over-emphasized), as well as with the competing products in your niche, before you try to jump in.
I hope that all of that didn't sound too "mercenary". But if you're going to do it for love, then you might as well try to do it for love AND money, or you might not get to do it at all. And since business consists of making people happy and getting paid for it, if you don't make enough money and go out of business then you will be depriving people of happiness.
Good luck to you!
- Tom Gootee
http://www.fulllnet.com/~tomg/index.html
-
Your original idea of selling to "quite well off" people, and maybe making and selling only one or two pairs per month on average, might be the niche to go after. You probably wouldn't enjoy trying to sell to people with little to spend, unless you want to do it all for charity's sake, or for experience only. (And after all, you can't make it go with "lower price and higher volume", if you're doing it by yourself, or on a small scale. So the opposite end of the spectrum is one obvious answer.)
And if you are selling only a few, you can certainly afford to sell only to "the few" (who have plenty of money and are audio junkies), and forget the rest.
If you know or can find someone who frequently spends a lot of money on audio equipment (and who hopefully also knows others like himself), try to ask for his opinion of your speakers; probably lend him a pair, if he's willing. And if you make "really-great" speakers, or you can dazzle people, you might sell some. Don't underestimate word-of-mouth, especially in that type of niche market (and maybe be prepared to build and sell in "spurts" of more than one or two a month, at times). [Later, similarly, after you have had some successes, perhaps you could send some to a chosen reviewer at an appropriate magazine, for example, or someone else whose opinion will be heard, if you want to expand your niche a little.]
And although you think that you might be able to make them for much less than comparable speakers sell for, a low price is not the best selling tool, in a high-end niche. A price that is too low might actually hurt your sales (Remember, it's part of "the image" of your product; expensive = good and cheap = bad.). And it would certainly make it more difficult for your business to remain viable, much less thrive. I'm just guessing, but, a better strategy might be to price your speakers about the same as some popular, very-expensive ones, that yours obviously beat. After a few sales, you might have enough saved to start making an even better product.
If your price is high, as it should be in that niche market, you should be able to easily afford to have glorious cabinets made, by fine craftsmen. (If you wanted to sell them for much less, then YOU might need to be the craftsman, just to keep your costs down. [But someday, hopefully, you'll be at the point where you'd charge much more if you made them yourself than if you had them made by someone else.])
There will be a fair amount of work, and luck, involved. You will need to do your homework well, in more ways than one. A great design and resulting product are very, very important. But you'll also want to become as familiar as possible with your targeted market and its "culture" (which cannot be over-emphasized), as well as with the competing products in your niche, before you try to jump in.
I hope that all of that didn't sound too "mercenary". But if you're going to do it for love, then you might as well try to do it for love AND money, or you might not get to do it at all. And since business consists of making people happy and getting paid for it, if you don't make enough money and go out of business then you will be depriving people of happiness.
Good luck to you!
- Tom Gootee
http://www.fulllnet.com/~tomg/index.html
-
Wow, talk about a timely thread. I was just formulating a post in my head about asking what would be the best DIY design to sell on a small scale. Now, I do have woodworking skills and can built a pretty nice cabinet, so I'm not worried about how they will look, and each pair would be totally custom. I really just want to sell speakers so I can continue to build more. I've got four pairs now that are high enough quality to sell and my wife is starting to give me that look.
So I'm thinking along these same lines as the OP and for the last year I have put out some hints to friends and family that I would like to build speakers to sell; however, so far, most don't give a rip about speakers. As long as they can hear what they are listening to, they are happy.
It's rather discouraging, but what I'm thinking I might do now is start asking friends and family if they want a pair to borrow for a while, just to get my work out there. Hopefully people will like having them in their home and spread the word that way (and maybe even order a pair
Doug
So I'm thinking along these same lines as the OP and for the last year I have put out some hints to friends and family that I would like to build speakers to sell; however, so far, most don't give a rip about speakers. As long as they can hear what they are listening to, they are happy.
It's rather discouraging, but what I'm thinking I might do now is start asking friends and family if they want a pair to borrow for a while, just to get my work out there. Hopefully people will like having them in their home and spread the word that way (and maybe even order a pair
Doug
Funny, I was just thinking the same thing...
I agree that word of mouth can't be underestimated if you are targeting a vertical like audio-junkies, especuially if you can develop a local market-base. Being able to loan or demo is critical and much easier if you are local.
My approach to the business end of this is to take my speakers to to a friend how runs a recording studio and have him (and some others) listen to them in a tuned room on a variety of program material. Hopefully that will give me a better idea of how others hear them (some authoritative validation of their quality) and maybe generate some word-of-mouth interest.
I am also thinking that a few eccentric high-end audiophile joints wouldn't mind a new marque if it gets going well enough as a boutique operation. Place a few pair privately and then go to the geeks and see if they will carry a pair on their display floor. Since they aren't chains they can make their own decisions and marketing a sexy new local designer might appeal to them...
*Loan* a pair or two - the visibility you get will be worth 10x the money you'd get selling them. Give a pair to your church, local library or town hall. Donate a pair to your local school for the music room or the auditorium. Maybe all those ideas are thick-headed but the point is to get seen and heard. Try and get the local paper to write you up as a new local entrepeneur. Marketing is everything...
A web-site seems like a long shot for finished loud-speakers unless you have the financial mass to loan x number of pair prior to purchase or support a generous return program.
I think that "build 'em and they will come," isn't a bad philosophy. Most of us talking about this will build them anyway - right? I mean, all of us believe (probably rightly) that we build a better value-for-money loudspeaker than you can buy. We might as well try and see if we can sell a few...
Let me know what you think,
Tom
I agree that word of mouth can't be underestimated if you are targeting a vertical like audio-junkies, especuially if you can develop a local market-base. Being able to loan or demo is critical and much easier if you are local.
My approach to the business end of this is to take my speakers to to a friend how runs a recording studio and have him (and some others) listen to them in a tuned room on a variety of program material. Hopefully that will give me a better idea of how others hear them (some authoritative validation of their quality) and maybe generate some word-of-mouth interest.
I am also thinking that a few eccentric high-end audiophile joints wouldn't mind a new marque if it gets going well enough as a boutique operation. Place a few pair privately and then go to the geeks and see if they will carry a pair on their display floor. Since they aren't chains they can make their own decisions and marketing a sexy new local designer might appeal to them...
*Loan* a pair or two - the visibility you get will be worth 10x the money you'd get selling them. Give a pair to your church, local library or town hall. Donate a pair to your local school for the music room or the auditorium. Maybe all those ideas are thick-headed but the point is to get seen and heard. Try and get the local paper to write you up as a new local entrepeneur. Marketing is everything...
A web-site seems like a long shot for finished loud-speakers unless you have the financial mass to loan x number of pair prior to purchase or support a generous return program.
I think that "build 'em and they will come," isn't a bad philosophy. Most of us talking about this will build them anyway - right? I mean, all of us believe (probably rightly) that we build a better value-for-money loudspeaker than you can buy. We might as well try and see if we can sell a few...
Let me know what you think,
Tom
What I originally intended to do was build nice looking high efficiency speakers and "market" them as working well with valve amps. People love their valve amps and should be impressed with a nice dymanic demonstration of them being powered from smallish tubes
People will then talk to other people about how big they sounded and interest would be sparked this way
People will then talk to other people about how big they sounded and interest would be sparked this way
I guess the first step is to confirm that the skills you think you have are actually what you have. You need to take your speakers out into the real world and see what others think. DIY events and dropping pairs off at high end shops for evaluation by the staff are a good start.
A wise man once said that you need to project the image of the company you wish to be, not the company you are.
There are many boutique speaker companies that are building exceptional products that are priced below their competitors that are getting no where. Often people are under the mistaken impression that a great product that is priced very aggressively is the way to enter the market.
To begin with it is not possible to make a decent profit with such a approach but more importantly there is a strong perception in the audio hobby that you get what you pay for. Price your product based on its value, not the mistaken belief that under cutting your competitors will give you an edge. It won't, it will just cause the buying public to lump you in with the competitors in your price range before they have even heard your product.
It is very natural for the public to categorize companies and products. Once an established company has been categorized it is extremely difficult to change that perception. This is true enough that generally when companies wish to enter a new market, or change the stature in an existing one, they start up a sister company or change the name of the existing one.
As far as the product itself you will need some claim to fame and for the startup its is often easiest to come up with some alternative cabinet material or construction method that you can claim as not only being "at least somewhat original" but an improvement over your competitors. The buying public do not understand x-overs and as far as quality drivers they judge them more on looks then sound. Please don't misunderstand, you need to have both but to put it another way, those that understand x-overs and drivers are not your customers, they are DIY'ers or your competitors so their is no sense "hinging" your marketing approach on those items.
it makes sense to borrow an existing proven design and improve on it. Make it original by improving its aesthetics, drivers and/or x-over. A strong warranty is a good way to get "some" attention but that requires that you make a decent profit in the first place.
Like most everything online, this is nothing more then my opinion.
A wise man once said that you need to project the image of the company you wish to be, not the company you are.
There are many boutique speaker companies that are building exceptional products that are priced below their competitors that are getting no where. Often people are under the mistaken impression that a great product that is priced very aggressively is the way to enter the market.
To begin with it is not possible to make a decent profit with such a approach but more importantly there is a strong perception in the audio hobby that you get what you pay for. Price your product based on its value, not the mistaken belief that under cutting your competitors will give you an edge. It won't, it will just cause the buying public to lump you in with the competitors in your price range before they have even heard your product.
It is very natural for the public to categorize companies and products. Once an established company has been categorized it is extremely difficult to change that perception. This is true enough that generally when companies wish to enter a new market, or change the stature in an existing one, they start up a sister company or change the name of the existing one.
As far as the product itself you will need some claim to fame and for the startup its is often easiest to come up with some alternative cabinet material or construction method that you can claim as not only being "at least somewhat original" but an improvement over your competitors. The buying public do not understand x-overs and as far as quality drivers they judge them more on looks then sound. Please don't misunderstand, you need to have both but to put it another way, those that understand x-overs and drivers are not your customers, they are DIY'ers or your competitors so their is no sense "hinging" your marketing approach on those items.
it makes sense to borrow an existing proven design and improve on it. Make it original by improving its aesthetics, drivers and/or x-over. A strong warranty is a good way to get "some" attention but that requires that you make a decent profit in the first place.
Like most everything online, this is nothing more then my opinion.
Find a market that fits, there are tons of speaker manufacturers out there and it's hard to beat them, price and warranty, for the average consumer. But there are people that want that special look, maybe a speaker that hides amoung their furniture, most wifes can't stand a speaker that takes away from their furniture, so hide it. It's a challenge, that's what I do.
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