Ive built the Tillman pre , and yes the J201 is very available , it"s a very common fet ... the problem with the tillman pre that I built is it is just basicly a fet buffer , there isn"t any real amplification going on , just 3db if you get the fet biased properly , you might have to try a few fets to get one that is optimumly biased useing the Values in the schematic .....
The real advantage to useing the fet pre amp or any onboard preamp there is less signal loss and coloring of the signal due to cable capacitance because your instrument is now has a low impedance output .......
Ive been useing a very simple single opamp based pre in my guitar for years and I love the sound , mine has quite a bit of gain to give my preamp tubes that extra kick ......
Cheers
The real advantage to useing the fet pre amp or any onboard preamp there is less signal loss and coloring of the signal due to cable capacitance because your instrument is now has a low impedance output .......
Ive been useing a very simple single opamp based pre in my guitar for years and I love the sound , mine has quite a bit of gain to give my preamp tubes that extra kick ......
Cheers
Hmm, good insight
Wonder what its supposed to be good fore then
do you know what kind of preamp is needed fore piezo pickups
btw, as I understand it many preamp/tops have two inputs, one fore passive pickups, and one fore active
Its also my understanding that many active systems tend to be more noisy
I suppose that relates to higher gain
Or is also related to impedance issues
Any opinions about those variables would be nice
Wonder what its supposed to be good fore then
do you know what kind of preamp is needed fore piezo pickups
btw, as I understand it many preamp/tops have two inputs, one fore passive pickups, and one fore active
Its also my understanding that many active systems tend to be more noisy
I suppose that relates to higher gain
Or is also related to impedance issues
Any opinions about those variables would be nice
Hi , I don"t find onboard preamps or active electronics noisy , then again I only have experience with mine and my friends Les Paul with Zack Wyld active pickups which are dead qiet , I guess if the Pickups are noisy it will just get amplified , I actually find it lowers the noise cuz you don"t have to crank the amp as loud and you don"t get nearly the interferance when running a 20 foot patch cord .......
For a piezo you would need an amp with a very high input impedance , Like 10m ohm ...
You could use the Tillman circuit for a Piezo but change the 3m resistor to a 10m resistor , but you will need a lot more gain for a piezo so you can put a simple opamp curcuit after it with adjustable gain or have the gain set and use a Pot between the fet stage and the opamp stage ......
Cheers
For a piezo you would need an amp with a very high input impedance , Like 10m ohm ...
You could use the Tillman circuit for a Piezo but change the 3m resistor to a 10m resistor , but you will need a lot more gain for a piezo so you can put a simple opamp curcuit after it with adjustable gain or have the gain set and use a Pot between the fet stage and the opamp stage ......
Cheers
Minion, I can tell from your answer you know a lot of what its about
I trust your experience
And your suggested mods fore using Tillman pre with piezos are no doubt useful
Yet, Im not really sure about the need fore another gain module
At least not if one doesnt need any controls on instrument
I would expect any good linedriver would be enough
Ofcourse we would need the gain from the preamp/top instead
But most people would like to have controls on instrument, thus optimally need more than a simple buffer
And most instruments are built with two pickups, and the blend between them changes sound
I dont want any controls, thus our goal doesnt seem alike
I trust your experience
And your suggested mods fore using Tillman pre with piezos are no doubt useful
Yet, Im not really sure about the need fore another gain module
At least not if one doesnt need any controls on instrument
I would expect any good linedriver would be enough
Ofcourse we would need the gain from the preamp/top instead
But most people would like to have controls on instrument, thus optimally need more than a simple buffer
And most instruments are built with two pickups, and the blend between them changes sound
I dont want any controls, thus our goal doesnt seem alike
My focus on onboard controls is to provide a means to further refine the sound; not to be a means onto itself.
For example, if you hold the physical features of the guitar constant (these physical features are also major contributors of tonal characteristics) and look at bass, treble, mids, gain etc. something like 81 different options become available. The amp controls are then used to further refine the sound.
Granted in some respects, I’m opening a can of worms, because I’m suggesting the variability generally reserved for the guys at the studio control console.
I’m also know not everyone can be a session musician, but perhaps it would be nice to give those guys, like me for instance, the opportunity to shape and blend the sound they want when studio equipment is not available.
For example, if you hold the physical features of the guitar constant (these physical features are also major contributors of tonal characteristics) and look at bass, treble, mids, gain etc. something like 81 different options become available. The amp controls are then used to further refine the sound.
Granted in some respects, I’m opening a can of worms, because I’m suggesting the variability generally reserved for the guys at the studio control console.
I’m also know not everyone can be a session musician, but perhaps it would be nice to give those guys, like me for instance, the opportunity to shape and blend the sound they want when studio equipment is not available.
What I see very often lately, when a bass player needs a different sound fore a certain piece of music or part of a session/concert, he change instrument
I have even seen it done in the middle of a piece, and back again
Im looking into bass guitar building, and it seems its mostly the different pickup types and brands that make a difference, and the blending of neck and bridge pickup
Also various woods, and their combination and whole instrument design matters
And speaker design, amp combination etc
Thats my approach
I will buy a preamp, but build my own speaker and poweramp
I hope to get a distinct sound from a clean setup
I dont like the idea of shaping the sound electronically too much, and maybe loose the natural sound
But realise I may be on my own with that one
And so far my experience with electrical bass is zero
Its all just in my head
I have played acoustic bass a while ago
I have even seen it done in the middle of a piece, and back again
Im looking into bass guitar building, and it seems its mostly the different pickup types and brands that make a difference, and the blending of neck and bridge pickup
Also various woods, and their combination and whole instrument design matters
And speaker design, amp combination etc
Thats my approach
I will buy a preamp, but build my own speaker and poweramp
I hope to get a distinct sound from a clean setup
I dont like the idea of shaping the sound electronically too much, and maybe loose the natural sound
But realise I may be on my own with that one
And so far my experience with electrical bass is zero
Its all just in my head
I have played acoustic bass a while ago
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maybe loose the natural sound
I have building my own archtop electric guitars for over 20 years now. I have been playing the guitar for over 40 years. All of my guitars have active onboard preamps and yet retain a good portion of their natural sound. But let's be clear; if we truly wanted a more natural sound we would be using piezo pickups not magnetic ones. However such a bassist would limit his or herself inregards to being called for work.
The truth is if if you are using magnetic pickups you have already chosen a more electronic sound than a natural. My guitars with preamps are very clean, very low distortion but very dynamic and punchy.
I used to have to switch from one of my full size archtops when playing traditional jazz to one of my smaller ones when playing comtemporary or pop jazz. I no longer have to do so because my preamp allows me to get the more midrangy sound for the comtemporay and fusion tunes we play.
Since you already admitted that you are considering different pickup types and brands, blending of neck and bridge pickups, buying a preamp and building your own speakers and pwr amp. Well all of these things are electronic ways of shaping your sound anyway.
Bypass your amplifier's preamp and see how you like the sound and you will see my point which is that without the amp's preamp your guitar's natural sound would be terrible.
I have building my own archtop electric guitars for over 20 years now. I have been playing the guitar for over 40 years. All of my guitars have active onboard preamps and yet retain a good portion of their natural sound. But let's be clear; if we truly wanted a more natural sound we would be using piezo pickups not magnetic ones. However such a bassist would limit his or herself inregards to being called for work.
The truth is if if you are using magnetic pickups you have already chosen a more electronic sound than a natural. My guitars with preamps are very clean, very low distortion but very dynamic and punchy.
I used to have to switch from one of my full size archtops when playing traditional jazz to one of my smaller ones when playing comtemporary or pop jazz. I no longer have to do so because my preamp allows me to get the more midrangy sound for the comtemporay and fusion tunes we play.
Since you already admitted that you are considering different pickup types and brands, blending of neck and bridge pickups, buying a preamp and building your own speakers and pwr amp. Well all of these things are electronic ways of shaping your sound anyway.
Bypass your amplifier's preamp and see how you like the sound and you will see my point which is that without the amp's preamp your guitar's natural sound would be terrible.
Nice to hear from a pro
Might be a misunderstanding
Im interested in new ABM piezo bridges, I have said that
The post you quote, was only to speculate on why my needs with a piezo may be different from most others, with active pickups
Or I would consider passive pickup
I suppose Tillman pre/buffer would work with those
And it was my intension to have a pre/top with equaliser
I just dont want controls on instrument, if possible
But I dont know how the piezos work
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Nice to hear from a pro
Im interested in new ABM piezo bridges
Or I would consider a single passive pickup
The ABMs are nice. I built a bass for a friend using a ABM bridge piezo and a set of Lace J-Bass pickups. It is a very versitile bass. I designed a custom active preamp especially for the guitar's 2 different types of pickups. The body and neck are carbon fibre and the action is very fast (without any fret buzz).
Nice to hear from a pro
Might be a misunderstanding
Im interested in new ABM piezo bridges, I have said that
The post you quote, was only to speculate on why my needs with a piezo may be different from most others, with active pickups
Actually I was not speculating
just responding to this section of your post;"Im looking into bass guitar building, and it seems its mostly the different pickup types and brands that make a difference, and the blending of neck and bridge pickup
Also various woods, and their combination and whole instrument design matters
And speaker design, amp combination etc
Thats my approach"
You mentioned several things above that you were considering in regards to bass guitar building which have to do with electronics rather than the natural acoustical characteristics of the guitar (except for various woods, and their combination) and said in the end "that is my approach".
Nevertheless what I said applies to piezo pickups also. Build a guitar with a ABM bridge pickup and use no pre amp and guess what? it will sound terrible. Adding a preamp to even a acoustic guitar actually will help it sound more natural when amplified. And that it those are the key words "when amplified" It does not matter if we are talking about a bass guitar or a singers voice if they are amplified they will not sound "more natural" without a preamp but rather with one. Without a preamp both will sound dull and lifeless lacking any brilliance and dynamics. So if you need a preamp at least in the guitar's amp it must not be too bad of a thing.
I will agree that certain preamps are better for piezos but they are yet preamps and actually help the instrument sound more natural when amplified which is why people use them.
Your input is of high value to me
I have all along expected that piezos would never work without a preamp
Thats why Im here
I just said I wasnt interested in the instrument "onboard" controls
And that I would expect to be on my own with that
I would also expect that even a passive pickup would work better with an active buffer/line driver
My main problem is, I dont like batteries
At least, I would choose a design making it last longer
I suppose that also relates to level of preamp gain, control setting etc
If buying a bass, I would prefer to have an active/passive switch
I will never be an active musician anyway
Im interested in building
And I like to have a functioning intrument, whenever I feel like playing a bit
tho, you can still read things like "if you like the natural sound from passive design" or "pure pre without controls preserving the natural sound", etc
Oh, please not forget its a thread about about bass preamp
Im sure I would think different if building electric guitar
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Ofcourse Im here because Im interested in bass preamps, and how they work
Any input you give is of value
I come from hifi where a pickup pre would be called a prepre etc
Actually its just a mic preamp, right
But theres also a preamp connected to poweramp
Maybe we should refer to pickup-pre
Gene opened this thread
And yes, he did ask fore a design with controls, to be build into his bass
Which seems to need a buffer and a gain section, optimally
Any input you give is of value
I come from hifi where a pickup pre would be called a prepre etc
Actually its just a mic preamp, right
But theres also a preamp connected to poweramp
Maybe we should refer to pickup-pre
Gene opened this thread
And yes, he did ask fore a design with controls, to be build into his bass
Which seems to need a buffer and a gain section, optimally
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I was never questioning you interest in bass preamps just statements you made that appeared to suggest that they detract from the natural sound of the instrument. Preamps are available that do not detract from the natural sound of the bass fitted with piezo pickups but rather enhance them.
As a luthier and audio electronics design engineer I have gotten some of my best ideas from everyday musicians with little or no knowledge of electronics.
Regarding the battery issue I am currently working on a wireless power supply which converts rf into voltage to run electronic devices. A cellphone company experimented with the technology with some promising results. I am using a rf tranmitter to send a wireless signal to a receiver built into my preamp. The signal is converted to dc voltage and then multiplied and used to power the preamp's ics. The signal's frequency is in the mHz so it is inaudible. Of course some filtering is necessary. I should be finished in about a week or two.
Oh
Sounds like we would benefit a lot from any help you can offer
Which is all that matters
Its not something I usually do, but now you tell you are a luthier
I like to show you my violin, the first and only
Now its about building a bass guitar
Easier to buy one, and cheaper too
But I cant stop it now
btw, my violin is inspired from a picture of instrument build by american named Carpenter, I think it was
Back in the wild west, which was a pretty strange thought
But lets just stick to the preamps
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Thanks
I was born with the tools in my hands
Thats the advantage I have
And I just love those pretty curves
Only bought the wood made fore luthiers
Still have enough wood fore a couple more
Had to make all the tools before building
Which was quite fun
Everything by hand, no machines
No sandpaper, only cutting tools and files
I started another one some years ago, hoping that it would a better one
But got tired of working at the kitchen table
I hope to have a workshop soon, and get started again
Next is electric bass guitar
Didnt like the kits available and I have bought some hardwood instead
Pretty expencive
Maybe one day I will start building a acoustic guitar
Maybe
btw, I have bought the books "Trade Secrets" from Stewart-Macdonal
And I have been in touch with Dough/Soulmate Guitars
Some real friendly luthiers around
But ofcourse, what else
I was born with the tools in my hands
Thats the advantage I have
And I just love those pretty curves
Only bought the wood made fore luthiers
Still have enough wood fore a couple more
Had to make all the tools before building
Which was quite fun
Everything by hand, no machines
No sandpaper, only cutting tools and files
I started another one some years ago, hoping that it would a better one
But got tired of working at the kitchen table
I hope to have a workshop soon, and get started again
Next is electric bass guitar
Didnt like the kits available and I have bought some hardwood instead
Pretty expencive
Maybe one day I will start building a acoustic guitar
Maybe
btw, I have bought the books "Trade Secrets" from Stewart-Macdonal
And I have been in touch with Dough/Soulmate Guitars
Some real friendly luthiers around
But ofcourse, what else
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