Hey guys, recently got a new car and I'm planning an audio upgrade. I want to install Zaph's ZA5car design and supplement it with a subwoofer. The only problem is, the car is a Mini cooper and I need to preserve as much space as possible. My goal is a sub that can produce good levels of Bass for music from 40ish to 100 Hz while also taking up very little space. An enclosure <20 liters is my goal although really the smaller the better. Weight is another concern and I'd like it to be as light as possible.
I'm currently looking at a vented enclosure for either an Exodus Anarchy 6.5 or a Tang Band W8-1363SB. They both model fairly well but I wondered if anybody had experience with either driver or any suggestions for a different driver for a small sub. I was also curious about any space/weight saving construction materials or techniques for the box itself.
Thanks ahead of time for your help.
I'm currently looking at a vented enclosure for either an Exodus Anarchy 6.5 or a Tang Band W8-1363SB. They both model fairly well but I wondered if anybody had experience with either driver or any suggestions for a different driver for a small sub. I was also curious about any space/weight saving construction materials or techniques for the box itself.
Thanks ahead of time for your help.
Foam core with epoxy as used in boats and surfboards will probably have some of the best stiffness to weight ratios, but at a very high cost and a fairly messy build.
1/2" or 5/8" plywood with lots of triangular bracing is still fairly light and strong.
small and light and they sound quite good
Bazooka BT6014 BT Series 6-1/2" 4-ohm Bass Tubes® enclosure at Crutchfield.com
Bazooka BT6014 BT Series 6-1/2" 4-ohm Bass Tubes® enclosure at Crutchfield.com
... thought I would be skeptical about the 100dB sensitivity figure. And probably the figures for extension.
Seems you are care about HiFi, nice splits! I think an important questions here are how much bass do you want and how much space can you spare. In the end there is no replacement for displacement
The cabin gain in a small car is a good start to decent SPL. I (who does not need a mobile dance party in his car or the very popular back massage experience) would be looking around for a higher end 10" sub which will both work in a small sealed enclosure and which will give you total Q that is where you want it (.7 to .8 perhaps).
I generally would not go for a vented enclosure in a car. They tend to be bigish and are sometimes tuned too high or have a port that is too narrow to behave itself for HiFi purposes (though fine for SPL). In addition, the port gain and the cabin gain together can be tricky to tame for hifi results. Of course if untamed bass is your thing then this is not a problem Also, don't get me wrong there are some excellent ported solutions about for HiFi and SPL purposes.
There are plenty of cool compact subs with inbuilt amps on the market too. I happened to see some Vibe (I think it was) bandpass units today that were quite compact and, being bandpass, had no exposed speaker and should include some decent gain if you don't want to go sealed. No idea how good they are though.
The cabin gain in a small car is a good start to decent SPL. I (who does not need a mobile dance party in his car or the very popular back massage experience) would be looking around for a higher end 10" sub which will both work in a small sealed enclosure and which will give you total Q that is where you want it (.7 to .8 perhaps).
I generally would not go for a vented enclosure in a car. They tend to be bigish and are sometimes tuned too high or have a port that is too narrow to behave itself for HiFi purposes (though fine for SPL). In addition, the port gain and the cabin gain together can be tricky to tame for hifi results. Of course if untamed bass is your thing then this is not a problem Also, don't get me wrong there are some excellent ported solutions about for HiFi and SPL purposes.
There are plenty of cool compact subs with inbuilt amps on the market too. I happened to see some Vibe (I think it was) bandpass units today that were quite compact and, being bandpass, had no exposed speaker and should include some decent gain if you don't want to go sealed. No idea how good they are though.
The quoted sensitivity figure is in-car sensitivity, taking cabin gain into account.
Ditto for the extension figure.
The Bazookas actually do quite well.
Many many years ago, one of my brothers had a small 6" Bazooka in his '91 VW GTi with an a/d/s amp bridged mono for 180 watts. That little Bazooka sub was much more musical, had a lot more punch and impact, and dug deeper than the two Audio Art 10's he put in later. Most likely the box for those 10's were all wrong, but nonetheless, the 6" Bazooka blew them away with flying colors.
In fact, just as a "fun fact", his car was featured in the "Readers' Rides" section of Car Stereo Magazine back in the June '96 issue, and even mentions my name in there for doing work on his system! I had to fix up the botched up job one of the stereo shops did to his system. I rewired and reinstalled the entire system!
In fact, just as a "fun fact", his car was featured in the "Readers' Rides" section of Car Stereo Magazine back in the June '96 issue, and even mentions my name in there for doing work on his system! I had to fix up the botched up job one of the stereo shops did to his system. I rewired and reinstalled the entire system!
I do like the way those TB W6s look. Mickatroids post has got me thinking about cabin gain though. After turning up this measured cabin gain in my car, (It's the top blue line)
I'm thinking a sealed box with a bit of a response bump at 70 hz would be a good way to go. Perhaps a Dayton RSS210HF in about 10 liters?
That bazooka sub looks interesting but I don't know if it's quite DIY-enough for me. Also the shape isn't particularly good for me as far as maximizing cargo space.
I'm thinking a sealed box with a bit of a response bump at 70 hz would be a good way to go. Perhaps a Dayton RSS210HF in about 10 liters?
That bazooka sub looks interesting but I don't know if it's quite DIY-enough for me. Also the shape isn't particularly good for me as far as maximizing cargo space.
Hmmm...
You probably won't notice the notch at 70Hz. If it is a serious problem, you can probably help with eq, but as we don't know how these measurements were made,
Due to the rising cabin gain, which I'd forgotten about, I'd advise either a larger ported box (google EBS subwoofer), or a sealed box with the driver I suggested before. Maybe 2.
You probably won't notice the notch at 70Hz. If it is a serious problem, you can probably help with eq, but as we don't know how these measurements were made,
Due to the rising cabin gain, which I'd forgotten about, I'd advise either a larger ported box (google EBS subwoofer), or a sealed box with the driver I suggested before. Maybe 2.
Wow, they all exhibit a big dip. I wonder if in part it relates to where the sub was located for each test? Does the source say? Can I take a punt and say in the middle, against the seats facing backwards?
I found large differences in a 2000 Corolla ( heard not measured) depending on where the sub was located. In the end facing accross the car from the corner opposite the steering wheel worked best for me.
It would be worth trying to address the dip with enclosure tuning but I wonder if (and this is why I raiased driver location) it is a phase type problem that will be very very hard to overcome in any case. Still, even if you gloss over the dip there would be a good case for tuning for a bit of a bump at around that around that point
I found large differences in a 2000 Corolla ( heard not measured) depending on where the sub was located. In the end facing accross the car from the corner opposite the steering wheel worked best for me.
It would be worth trying to address the dip with enclosure tuning but I wonder if (and this is why I raiased driver location) it is a phase type problem that will be very very hard to overcome in any case. Still, even if you gloss over the dip there would be a good case for tuning for a bit of a bump at around that around that point
Would't you think that with and extended bass shelf design that the cabin gain would mean it would be insanly boomy and require a massive box? I would have concluded that cabin gain means an EBS design is not required for loud deep bass. Great for home cinema though
No doubt EBS could be perfect in some cars with the right subwoofer.
However, the general case for EBS alignments involves big boxes (and long ports) and a response that is designed to take advantage of room gain, not small car cabin gain. The OP was after something small and light for a Mini, I think it relatively unlikely that EBS alighnments will fit the bill.
Sorry about the double posts, I am still subject to moderation. Hi moderator!
However, the general case for EBS alignments involves big boxes (and long ports) and a response that is designed to take advantage of room gain, not small car cabin gain. The OP was after something small and light for a Mini, I think it relatively unlikely that EBS alighnments will fit the bill.
Sorry about the double posts, I am still subject to moderation. Hi moderator!
My point in favour of an EBS alignment is that, so long as the shelf is sufficiently further down (in level) relative to 100Hz, the cabin gain would give a flat response all the way down to port tuning. It takes 2 minutes to run some numbers in winISD, but a decent 6.5" or 8" sealed would probably be my choice, keeping more to the size constraints.
I would disagree with tuning a ported box to take out the 70Hz notch - seems to me more likely a problem with location within the car. Plus, below port tuning, power handling of the driver drops to almost nil.
Chris
I would disagree with tuning a ported box to take out the 70Hz notch - seems to me more likely a problem with location within the car. Plus, below port tuning, power handling of the driver drops to almost nil.
Chris
Right you are Chris661, that would allow for some very decent ouput from a smaller speaker, I see where you are heading now. It would be a matter of comparing a small driver in a EBS enclosure to a larger one in a sealed box.
I think the OP was proposing to tune a sealed enclosure to have a response peak at 70hz, not port one to that frequency (which would as you rightly say be a problem).
M
I think the OP was proposing to tune a sealed enclosure to have a response peak at 70hz, not port one to that frequency (which would as you rightly say be a problem).
M
Just tried modelling the Tang Band subwoofer in a small (very small - 2L) sealed cabinet. The bump in response moves too high up to attempt to fill in the 70Hz dip. Using a Linkwitz Transform to set a fc of 70Hz, no matter how high the Q, the bump is too wide. Efficiency at low frequencies will be almost unusable for small drivers, so I think a ported solution would be best.
As I said earlier, I don't think the 70Hz notch will be a problem. If it is, the frequency is sufficiently high that eq can be applied to correct the notch, with no (serious) excursion problems.
I found a 25L cabinet tuned to 14Hz would give a response opposite in rolloff to the cabin gain of the mini, so you'd get a flat response to ~14Hz.
However. The port requirements are silly. So a compromise must be found.
Provided this subwoofer will be driven with its own amplifier, and the amplifier's input impedance is known (and the output impedance of the source), eq can be applied (in the form of a resistor and a capacitor) to flatten the in-car response of a subwoofer that's usable as-is, in the home.
A first order high pass filter, set to ~40Hz (this will need some listening to confirm) will give a roll-off to a flat subwoofer that will better integrate it with the extra gain from the cabin.
As the desired bass extension is unknown, I chose 30Hz as reasonable. 20L tuned to 30Hz. A 70mm diameter vent will be ~0.5m long, so some folding may be necessary, but this diameter is commonly found as PVC tubes for gutters, etc, so the correct elbow joints will be available.
For the amount of displacement this driver has, the 70mm port may not be enough (at 100w input, air velocity hits 26m/s - this could cause audible "chuffing" - lightly stuffing the port would help, but reduce output around port tuning). 2 could be used, but the length of each would have to double, so I don't think this is an option.
Chris
I am looking to build a couple of small, lightweight subs also, but not for car use, rather for music/HT.
Would this driver work in a tapped horn? I am looking to cover from mid 20s - 120 Hz, and relieve my full-range drivers of heavy bass duty.
http://www.tb-speaker.com/detail/1208_03/w5-1138sm.htm
Thx.
Would this driver work in a tapped horn? I am looking to cover from mid 20s - 120 Hz, and relieve my full-range drivers of heavy bass duty.
http://www.tb-speaker.com/detail/1208_03/w5-1138sm.htm
Thx.
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