-to a certain lower freq. threashold, yup.
But even if it's done correctly (with the array for the lower mid-range/bass only to avoid combing), the non-linear distortion would still be poor (..as the driver's distortion starts getting much higher below 200 Hz).
Again, reasonable constraints are needed.
An infinite baffle isn't reasonable (..it is reasonable in an in-wall context, but that's not really a "speaker" as most of us think of, and many throughout the world don't have an option for "in-wall"). High non-linear distortion isn't reasonable. Huge volume enclosures aren't reasonable. etc..
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Not trying to do some high highfalutin' "great" speaker. $100 a side is getting into that territory. Sow's Ear is the key.
Not too many rules and restrictions. Sucks the fun and creativity out of it.
Remember, there aren't any cash prizes. It just fun to see what people can come up with on a very tight budget.
Not too many rules and restrictions. Sucks the fun and creativity out of it.
Remember, there aren't any cash prizes. It just fun to see what people can come up with on a very tight budget.
I've chosen a couple of drivers which come to $21 leaving me $9 for crossover components. Unfortunately shipping would likely be over $100 (and I take years to do a build) so I wont be able to participate. However I will do a simulated design and participate in a non qualifying in spirit way
Tony.
Tony.
Ok.. "fun" then.
Design ideas:
1. Good fullrange driver for wide bandwidth coupled to
2. very wide baffle (for low pressure loss into lower midrange), plus
3. slanted baffle (rearward), plus
4. rear, upward firing woofer, about two feet off the floor to produce pressure loss off-axis (for integration with the fullrange), series connected with no electrical crossover.
Ex. Zephrin 46
5. bass reflex tuning as required for both drivers, tuning freq. priority for fullrange with respect to integration with the upward firing woofer. Tuning freq. for the woofer as required for low freq. extension vs. spl/compression.
Probably something near a 3 foot (3x3) square-shaped baffle, with about a 10-15 degree slant and the fullrange driver the only thing on the front baffle. The baffle doesn't have to be the enclosure, you can have a box on the floor (for the upward firing woofer) connected to the front baffle (as just a board) and a simplistic pipe rear for the fullrange driver (extending rear of the baffle). Left speaker has fullrange driver near right-hand side of baffle (say 10-12" from right-hand baffle edge), and upward firing woofer all the way to the right of front baffle. ("mirror" for Right speaker.)
Fullrange driver:
Peerless by Tymphany TC7FD00-04 2-1/2" Full Range Paper Cone Woofer 4 Ohm
Zaph|Audio
Timothy Feleppa's Pages
Woofer:
http://www.newark.com/mcm-audio-select/55-3231/70w-rms-4-ohm-rubber-surround/dp/43W7872
Design ideas:
1. Good fullrange driver for wide bandwidth coupled to
2. very wide baffle (for low pressure loss into lower midrange), plus
3. slanted baffle (rearward), plus
4. rear, upward firing woofer, about two feet off the floor to produce pressure loss off-axis (for integration with the fullrange), series connected with no electrical crossover.
Ex. Zephrin 46
5. bass reflex tuning as required for both drivers, tuning freq. priority for fullrange with respect to integration with the upward firing woofer. Tuning freq. for the woofer as required for low freq. extension vs. spl/compression.
Probably something near a 3 foot (3x3) square-shaped baffle, with about a 10-15 degree slant and the fullrange driver the only thing on the front baffle. The baffle doesn't have to be the enclosure, you can have a box on the floor (for the upward firing woofer) connected to the front baffle (as just a board) and a simplistic pipe rear for the fullrange driver (extending rear of the baffle). Left speaker has fullrange driver near right-hand side of baffle (say 10-12" from right-hand baffle edge), and upward firing woofer all the way to the right of front baffle. ("mirror" for Right speaker.)
Fullrange driver:
Peerless by Tymphany TC7FD00-04 2-1/2" Full Range Paper Cone Woofer 4 Ohm
Zaph|Audio
Timothy Feleppa's Pages
Woofer:
http://www.newark.com/mcm-audio-select/55-3231/70w-rms-4-ohm-rubber-surround/dp/43W7872
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I think this idea is kinda exciting as I'm on a tight budget and trying to learn this hobby, so I don't want to spend too much while I'm still learning - I think this thread is a great idea
A few years back I read Zilches econowave thread and wanted to build one, so I bought some used and some new but broken PA speakers here in the UK - QTX QT8 which use a cheap 8" woofer and compression driver, with a simple crossover (woofer works full range). I can't make boxes so needed some cheap cabinets to build an econowave, which I did (Zilch's ewave mini using XD125 and beta 8A) and was extremely pleased with the results. Boxes were around £20 each including delivery for the new but broken ones IIRC (the CDs had often broken the waveguide at the neck due to bad handling during shipping - probably dropped). The used and broken ones were cheaper still, but the woofers and tweeters were often beyond use - ideal for a project box though (I bought a few as i wanted to use them for various projects)
I recently wondered if the existing QT8 woofer and tweeter could be made to work using a better crossover with a constant directivity waveguide so would be more in keeping with the econowave ethos, so I have started looking into it.
I found a CD waveguide on ebay for around £5.50 shipped from china. It looks like a Pyle CD waveguide so may be a copy (and may not even be CD), but it'll be fun see what can be done.
I then measured the woofer and tweeter (with wg) separately in the box and put that into XSim to see if I could get the pair to work and use a relatively simple crossover - 7 components.
I haven't built the crossover yet, but I got a lot of cheap Alcap 50v caps (26p) and ferrite inductors (£2+) to test the simulation with, so the crossover won't cost a great deal either - maybe £7 or £8. I love the idea of unwinding an old motor and making your own inductors though.
I'm not sure this project counts, and it's certainly not going to be the cheapest, judging by some of the ideas so far, but if anyone is interested I'll post pictures of the box, measurements, XSim, crossover and components. It'll probably be considered too expensive and as I can only really measure in my lounge. it won't have the best FR either. You guys here can probably find cheaper components that will yield better results anyway because you have more experience and know what you're doing
I've also built a pair of speakers using some old Acoustic Research TSW110 cabs I got from ebay (£17 pair), along with some P-Audio PHT409 tweeters I bought a few years ago (£20 pair, but now more like £26), and I bought a pair of Faital Pro FE100 6" drivers for £45 pair, so the cost to me was £41 per speaker - I used an existing PCB from some old damaged/repairable Kef Cresta speakers I'd picked up years ago to experiment with, along with coils and caps I had from other D/R speaker crossovers, so the crossover didn't cost me anything as such to build (couldn't cost that in anyway tbh unless you say the parts were maybe £1 per coild and 20p per cap and resistor, used).
I guess both projects have cost more than the budget limitation of this thread, but I've enjoyed trying to build something that sounds reasonably OK to me without breaking the bank, and enjoyed it a great deal, while learning something as I go. I think this thread could be ideal not just as a piece of fun for the experts, but also for people like me who don't know very much and need to learn the hobby without breaking the bank - so can maybe learn by reading and doing.
Sorry for the ramble but wanted to offer my support.
Gary.
A few years back I read Zilches econowave thread and wanted to build one, so I bought some used and some new but broken PA speakers here in the UK - QTX QT8 which use a cheap 8" woofer and compression driver, with a simple crossover (woofer works full range). I can't make boxes so needed some cheap cabinets to build an econowave, which I did (Zilch's ewave mini using XD125 and beta 8A) and was extremely pleased with the results. Boxes were around £20 each including delivery for the new but broken ones IIRC (the CDs had often broken the waveguide at the neck due to bad handling during shipping - probably dropped). The used and broken ones were cheaper still, but the woofers and tweeters were often beyond use - ideal for a project box though (I bought a few as i wanted to use them for various projects)
I recently wondered if the existing QT8 woofer and tweeter could be made to work using a better crossover with a constant directivity waveguide so would be more in keeping with the econowave ethos, so I have started looking into it.
I found a CD waveguide on ebay for around £5.50 shipped from china. It looks like a Pyle CD waveguide so may be a copy (and may not even be CD), but it'll be fun see what can be done.
I then measured the woofer and tweeter (with wg) separately in the box and put that into XSim to see if I could get the pair to work and use a relatively simple crossover - 7 components.
I haven't built the crossover yet, but I got a lot of cheap Alcap 50v caps (26p) and ferrite inductors (£2+) to test the simulation with, so the crossover won't cost a great deal either - maybe £7 or £8. I love the idea of unwinding an old motor and making your own inductors though.
I'm not sure this project counts, and it's certainly not going to be the cheapest, judging by some of the ideas so far, but if anyone is interested I'll post pictures of the box, measurements, XSim, crossover and components. It'll probably be considered too expensive and as I can only really measure in my lounge. it won't have the best FR either. You guys here can probably find cheaper components that will yield better results anyway because you have more experience and know what you're doing
I've also built a pair of speakers using some old Acoustic Research TSW110 cabs I got from ebay (£17 pair), along with some P-Audio PHT409 tweeters I bought a few years ago (£20 pair, but now more like £26), and I bought a pair of Faital Pro FE100 6" drivers for £45 pair, so the cost to me was £41 per speaker - I used an existing PCB from some old damaged/repairable Kef Cresta speakers I'd picked up years ago to experiment with, along with coils and caps I had from other D/R speaker crossovers, so the crossover didn't cost me anything as such to build (couldn't cost that in anyway tbh unless you say the parts were maybe £1 per coild and 20p per cap and resistor, used).
I guess both projects have cost more than the budget limitation of this thread, but I've enjoyed trying to build something that sounds reasonably OK to me without breaking the bank, and enjoyed it a great deal, while learning something as I go. I think this thread could be ideal not just as a piece of fun for the experts, but also for people like me who don't know very much and need to learn the hobby without breaking the bank - so can maybe learn by reading and doing.
Sorry for the ramble but wanted to offer my support.
Gary.
These are very good sounding wide range drivers on an open baffle.I have tried a lot of these type drivers and think these sound as good or better than many of the expensive ones.Better than the Fostex.A fair bit of magic in the midrange and not too unlike the Goodmans Axiom 80 in tone and speed.Treble is good for this type of driver.
Some people have made open baffle line arrays using four of them per channel.
From Altronics in Australia-
http://www.altronics.com.au/p/c2000a-redback-200mm-8-inch-8-ohm-10w-dual-cone-pa-speaker/
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...n-the-world/&usg=AOvVaw1H45XjugpVhCnwWl9idinM
Some people have made open baffle line arrays using four of them per channel.
From Altronics in Australia-
http://www.altronics.com.au/p/c2000a-redback-200mm-8-inch-8-ohm-10w-dual-cone-pa-speaker/
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...n-the-world/&usg=AOvVaw1H45XjugpVhCnwWl9idinM
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@ScottG - thats the spirit! I like this woofer, makes me sad I already blew my budget on other drivers. I did not find much in this price range that had lowish (relatively) Qts. I will post some sims for what I had in mind when I get the chance to show a creative way I am trying to deal with high Q. (And then hopefully the less novice people can point me to what that method is called as it is certainly not a new invention)
Can you publish Edit#3 , or are they the "unwritten rules" of the sow's ear?
Can I use the Euros 37€ price option, because as 37€ = $42US = $55CDN
Not sure what you mean, It is just the 3rd time I edited the original post for clarity and inclusion of community suggestions? I did not save older versions of the post if that is what you are asking for?
in "Canadia"
I guess you found a loophole? Maybe edit #4 needs to say in north america use USD, in europe use EU, everywhere else, use best judgment?
Intention of differentiating between USD and EUR was not to set different limits for people from US and Europe, but to increase the possible choices available. There is some difference in which drivers are available for what cost, after you factor in addittional costs it seemed more fair to make a limit adapted for regional cost differences.
Pick one: European shops, or US shops, based on which drivers YOU would like to work with, note prices, and order from whatever shop is cheapest for you including shipping and other relevant criteria.
So if there is a set of drivers that are too expensive to buy in the US, check prices for EU shops and use those if it is within budget/proves beneficial, and vice versa.
It is not to divide, but to equalize.
Pick one: European shops, or US shops, based on which drivers YOU would like to work with, note prices, and order from whatever shop is cheapest for you including shipping and other relevant criteria.
So if there is a set of drivers that are too expensive to buy in the US, check prices for EU shops and use those if it is within budget/proves beneficial, and vice versa.
It is not to divide, but to equalize.
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