I don't see a lot of DIY projects using side firing woofer probably because it only makes sense if you go 4way and most DIY projects I found are either 2way or 3way. With 3way, the xover freq. is probably too high for side firing woofer. Ultimately, a 3way probably does not have enough bass to realistically recreate the credible soundstage. You probably need a larger subwoofer than an 8in. I guess you could do 3way 1+4.5+12 but the integration is not ideal. My other rationale for doing side firing woofer is that I can keep my front baffle as narrow as possible to minimize diffraction and improve soundstage image. Ideally, it would be 1+5.5 (or 4.5) + 8in. then the side firing woofer would either 10in or 12in. I am hoping the 12in will be OK with a low cost driver while most of the cost would be on the mid and 8in. The 12in. woofer on the front baffle is probably a bit too ungainly. Got to keep it good looking. The side firing woofer will be active because crossing very low will need very large inductor so some electronics filtering is more practical and probably allows some type of room control.
Madisound has some nice illuminator drivers and revelator for sale so very temping to pick up a few.
Madisound has some nice illuminator drivers and revelator for sale so very temping to pick up a few.
Just for the record,
you actually can do 2-way with excellent integration and no need for a subwoofer, e.g.:
Pioneer Exclusive 2402
Granted, to do it right, it won't be cheap, though.
Marco
you actually can do 2-way with excellent integration and no need for a subwoofer, e.g.:
Pioneer Exclusive 2402
Granted, to do it right, it won't be cheap, though.
Marco
I looked into this as an option when I was building my last speakers. I wound up keeping the big woofers (subwoofers really) in a separate box and I'm glad I did because they do much better being able to place them closer to the wall or the corners whereas the speakers do better away from the wall. I do have time correction for the subwoofers. Even though they are in the corners and a couple feet behind the speakers, I am still running them up to 160hz with 4th order crossover and I like it this way. Measurements show that I can get a bit better FR without narrow dips from cancellations with the walls.
As with so many things in the audio hobby, it very much depends on application / venue. In over 50yrs in this hobby, the only commercial speaker that I've ever owned that was more than a 3-way as the Dahlquist DQ10 and sub woofer - which I'd guess you could describe as a 5.5way? They were nice and all, but rather a space hog, and over the 40yrs since, haven't needed anything more than a 3-way with 12" woofer ( Yamaha NX690) .
I've never owned a commercial speaker with side-mounted woofers, but over the past 5 or so yrs have built more at least 1/2 dozen of pairs of "simple" 2-ways with singles or pairs/multiples of side mounted mid-woofers - from single or dual woofers (CSS SDX7 or Silver Flute SW14), to pairs or quads of Peerless 830870 per channel. Crossovers were in the range of 250-330(?) Hz, and mostly with PLLXO and bi-amped.
With a very narrow baffle, you need to engineer some degree of BSC, and parts cost for passive XOs can get pricey enough that if you're like a lot of guys and have amps to spare, the bi-amp approach makes some economic sense. Then of course there's the increasingly popular minidsp (or other brand), which will have a higher front end cost that a simple PLLXO, but offers so much flexibility.
I've never owned a commercial speaker with side-mounted woofers, but over the past 5 or so yrs have built more at least 1/2 dozen of pairs of "simple" 2-ways with singles or pairs/multiples of side mounted mid-woofers - from single or dual woofers (CSS SDX7 or Silver Flute SW14), to pairs or quads of Peerless 830870 per channel. Crossovers were in the range of 250-330(?) Hz, and mostly with PLLXO and bi-amped.
With a very narrow baffle, you need to engineer some degree of BSC, and parts cost for passive XOs can get pricey enough that if you're like a lot of guys and have amps to spare, the bi-amp approach makes some economic sense. Then of course there's the increasingly popular minidsp (or other brand), which will have a higher front end cost that a simple PLLXO, but offers so much flexibility.
Sidefiring is a great way to go so long as your crossover is low enough. You can use it to achieve better overall performance (high frequency distortion components are somewhat directional, as are higher frequencies from a sub, so those are removed somewhat from the direct field)
If you can afford the cab space/driver budget, having dual side-firing woofers on either side of a cabinet, coupled together mechanically, reduces the net mechanical energy in the cabinet from the woofers. Very helpful if you'd rather use cabinet weight for drivers rather than reinforcement
If you can afford the cab space/driver budget, having dual side-firing woofers on either side of a cabinet, coupled together mechanically, reduces the net mechanical energy in the cabinet from the woofers. Very helpful if you'd rather use cabinet weight for drivers rather than reinforcement
My preference would be to keep everything in one unit for practical and aesthetic reason - for example easier to carry on my hands from one place to another.
Although horns have its proponents, but unless somebody gives me as a gift, I am not sure. Besides, with DIY resources, making a proper horn is probably beyond me. Dynamic drivers will have better mid quality, although horns do have that dynamic sound of its own.
Indeed you can do a nice 2-way with side firing woofers. I am currently listening to such a 2-way. We like full-ranges so this is a WAW (formerly called FAST) with the 3” FF85wKeN as a midTweeter and 2 push-push side firing SilverFlute W14 in an ML-TL. Estimated anechoic response to F10 ~35 Hz. When we used PLLXO it was set to 240 Hz 1st order. I was very surprised that when Aaron did the passive XO (almost exclusively based on measures) that he put the XO at ~ 450 Hz 1st order. It sounds fine. The passive XO cost more to make than the PLLXO and the extra amp. It sure is conveinient thou.
(apologies to Chris that i haven’t taken pics since the very nice veneer job he did)
dave
Indeed you can do a nice 2-way with side firing woofers. I am currently listening to such a 2-way. We like full-ranges so this is a WAW (formerly called FAST) with the 3” FF85wKeN as a midTweeter and 2 push-push side firing SilverFlute W14 in an ML-TL. Estimated anechoic response to F10 ~35 Hz. When we used PLLXO it was set to 240 Hz 1st order. I was very surprised that when Aaron did the passive XO (almost exclusively based on measures) that he put the XO at ~ 450 Hz 1st order. It sounds fine. The passive XO cost more to make than the PLLXO and the extra amp. It sure is conveinient thou.
(apologies to Chris that i haven’t taken pics since the very nice veneer job he did)
dave
I have not doubt you like your pair of speakers very very much, but I still think to get the best integration, the side woofer has to cross over very low otherwise the listeners will be able to localize the sound from the side woofers. The result is a phasey image that sorts of move about on the soundstage. The only way to do is in a 4way setup. As I said it won't be cheap to get the sound you really want, it would cost a bit.
Well the thing is the reason for going out of my way to do a 4way side firing is to get extra bass from a 12in driver. If I were to do a 3way with 8in. driver then I would just do a straight forward 3way so there would be no point doing a side firing 3way.
Looked at doing a side firing 3 way but there were too many compromises over using two smaller front firing woofers.
One is bsc on the midwoofer, which needs to be at least 6". Also a sensitive side firing woofer, which in turn leads to a fairly large box to get the same bass response as I would from the front firing arrangement.
Maybe 5th can model you up something
One is bsc on the midwoofer, which needs to be at least 6". Also a sensitive side firing woofer, which in turn leads to a fairly large box to get the same bass response as I would from the front firing arrangement.
Maybe 5th can model you up something
I did a 3.5 way with a 10" side woofer (Vifa M26WR), 2 x 5" P13WH mids and Scan 9500. The mids crossed over electronically at 230 Hz with only the upper mid going up to the tweeter crossover at 3 KHz. The lower mid acted as baffle step compensation. It sounded quite nice with good mid tweeter integration. Passive crossover at 3 KHz was an LR4 with offset baffle for the tweeter.
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