Well, as "politely discussed" in the Audio Asylum thread referenced by Karl a few posts above, at this point of the 21st century, there are few designs in audio that aren't in some way related to or descended from "prior art", but as in evolution of any species, accumulation of any number of minor changes can make for big functional differences over time.
"they might deliver better sound-stage dimension in rooms requiring closer primary listening positions."
If you suspect that to be the case, could one of you guys send me beta tester plans for the Valiant?
I'm willing to give it a try with my Fostex FE 166es-r. Of course suggested plan alterations to better suit the 166es-r drivers BW balance would be appreciated. However as is would be ok too, i don't need to get the max bass out of the driver.
Thanks Chrisb for pointing this out. I have 2 rooms in mind - 20" x 14" and 15" x 17" - seating distance from walls is >10 feet for both.
Corner loading will be a big challenge (I had corners even in Jan, now gone). So wall loading through Scott's new designs will definitely help if I take the dive in the future.
Sorry for my ignorance - what is so mystical about the horn sound? I have read quite a few posts where people go gaga about good horn sound. Terms like "massive sound stage", "musicality", "foot tapping", "tremendous imaging", "powerful bass" are often used. The only claim to first hand experience I have is with the BiBs (which are not bit of horn and pipe as far as I know), which I like a lot.
If I had a FE126 I would give Ron Clarke's A66 a try; a gentleman who lives in the same city as I do offered me his cabs to take a listen.
Just realized - I have FE166en which (probably) should be good for Victor...
-Zia
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Just to confirm what has been said above. My room is quite large, about 30' one direction and 20' the other. The sound is better at 12' than at 8'. IIRC, Scott mentioned that this would be the minimum size room for the sachikos. Smaller room - make the smaller cabinet for the 166 or 126....
Make it using baltic birch ply, work to ~1mm tolerance and be prepared to experiment with lining the chamber with felt. I ended up with 4 out of 6 walls lined IIRC.
Fantastic speakers BTW.
Fran
Make it using baltic birch ply, work to ~1mm tolerance and be prepared to experiment with lining the chamber with felt. I ended up with 4 out of 6 walls lined IIRC.
Fantastic speakers BTW.
Fran
BIB is "technically" a horn - chamberless, tapped, BLH
As with all things, implementation is at least, if not more important to the final results as the particular design topology and quality of parts/materials used.
It would be as easy to make a horrific sounding speaker with a Lowther PM6 and $300/sheet bamboo plywood as something musical from less than $150 in baltic birch Fostex, Mark Audio, TangBand or even a heavy duty cardboard box and 20 yr old Radio Shack 40-1197s
the lexicon to describe exactly what aficionados find fascinating about "horns" is vast - for me it's dynamics micro/ macro, "speed" of bass (I'll likely get flak for that), and in the case of rear / double mouth BLHs soundstage width and "bloom"
As with all things, implementation is at least, if not more important to the final results as the particular design topology and quality of parts/materials used.
It would be as easy to make a horrific sounding speaker with a Lowther PM6 and $300/sheet bamboo plywood as something musical from less than $150 in baltic birch Fostex, Mark Audio, TangBand or even a heavy duty cardboard box and 20 yr old Radio Shack 40-1197s
the lexicon to describe exactly what aficionados find fascinating about "horns" is vast - for me it's dynamics micro/ macro, "speed" of bass (I'll likely get flak for that), and in the case of rear / double mouth BLHs soundstage width and "bloom"
Half-Sachiko = Half The Speaker
<<Quote:
Originally Posted by Granat http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/184375-sachiko-vs-chang-3.html#post2550217
I wonder if it would be possible to have 'Half Sachiko' speakers?
Karl
<<I think the short answer is - it would be less than half the speaker in performance>>
Hi ChrisB,
The more I think about it, I think that is probably right. Especially in a big room, the back-loaded double horn is probably optimal. That huge soundstage that blows away people would not be easy to replicate without going with the Sachiko's size. Well, that is something to think about... thanks!.
Karl
<<Quote:
Originally Posted by Granat http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/184375-sachiko-vs-chang-3.html#post2550217
I wonder if it would be possible to have 'Half Sachiko' speakers?
Karl
<<I think the short answer is - it would be less than half the speaker in performance>>
Hi ChrisB,
The more I think about it, I think that is probably right. Especially in a big room, the back-loaded double horn is probably optimal. That huge soundstage that blows away people would not be easy to replicate without going with the Sachiko's size. Well, that is something to think about... thanks!.
Karl
I'd have to imagine the Victor would suit most of the FE16x series, possibly with minor adjustments - but that's a question for the designer.
Contact Scott directly at his Woden email address
Fostex FE206ES-R in the Sachiko
The Sachiko was specifically designed for the Fostex FE206E, and the
Fostex 206-ES-R should be closer than any driver other than the FE206E I would think. The driver I am using is the FE206ES-R. I have a standard Sachiko built with the plans on the Frugal Horn site. (The only change I made to those plans was that I put the two front plates- two thicknesses of plywood- to hold the driver and make the box more rigid).
My amp is a 20 watt Liang 845.
This driver has an efficiency of approximately 99db, and with my Liang I can drive people out of my house with the volume, and listen to music outside with the volume turned up about halfway.
The sound is really outstanding. The sound stage is huge, the definition is outstanding, and the three-dimensional effect is incredible. I am not really an expert like many on the internet, but I have heard a number systems, and for me it seems better than anything I have ever heard.
I will say that I have thoughtfully carefully changes to increase the quality of the system with improved tubes for the amp and connections, and any change in my system is now quite dramatic.
One example that I am thinking of is that I changed a pair of silver interconnects with a new gold/silver/copper alloy that I purchased from Aural Harmony. The increase in the 3-D effect, and the blackness of the background, and the definition of the bass was pretty dramatic for me. My sons heard the same increase in sound quality without being told. I mention all this because in my old system, I do not think that there was enough definition to have been able to hear that change in quality where now any change is noticible.
Best wishes,
Karl
The Sachiko was specifically designed for the Fostex FE206E, and the
Fostex 206-ES-R should be closer than any driver other than the FE206E I would think. The driver I am using is the FE206ES-R. I have a standard Sachiko built with the plans on the Frugal Horn site. (The only change I made to those plans was that I put the two front plates- two thicknesses of plywood- to hold the driver and make the box more rigid).
My amp is a 20 watt Liang 845.
This driver has an efficiency of approximately 99db, and with my Liang I can drive people out of my house with the volume, and listen to music outside with the volume turned up about halfway.
The sound is really outstanding. The sound stage is huge, the definition is outstanding, and the three-dimensional effect is incredible. I am not really an expert like many on the internet, but I have heard a number systems, and for me it seems better than anything I have ever heard.
I will say that I have thoughtfully carefully changes to increase the quality of the system with improved tubes for the amp and connections, and any change in my system is now quite dramatic.
One example that I am thinking of is that I changed a pair of silver interconnects with a new gold/silver/copper alloy that I purchased from Aural Harmony. The increase in the 3-D effect, and the blackness of the background, and the definition of the bass was pretty dramatic for me. My sons heard the same increase in sound quality without being told. I mention all this because in my old system, I do not think that there was enough definition to have been able to hear that change in quality where now any change is noticible.
Best wishes,
Karl
Review of Sachiko
This is a review of a speaker that is very close to the Sachiko- I think that Jeff Carder has some proprietory modifications to the design, but the review should give a good idea of the speaker-
AudiogoN Reviews: Cardersound Madison Speaker
Karl
This is a review of a speaker that is very close to the Sachiko- I think that Jeff Carder has some proprietory modifications to the design, but the review should give a good idea of the speaker-
AudiogoN Reviews: Cardersound Madison Speaker
Karl
Oops! Madison is Proprietary!!!
Dave-
That is right Dave- My error.
They are very similar products (double mouth backloaded horns using the Fostex FE206 type speaker, I think approx. same height and width) but the Madison has some additional features and it is a proprietary speaker. And from what I have heard, it is an excellent speaker at that- see the review!
I think this review gives much of the flavor to the Sachiko product. But... Again- I should have mentioned the above! Sorry.
Karl
Dave-
That is right Dave- My error.
They are very similar products (double mouth backloaded horns using the Fostex FE206 type speaker, I think approx. same height and width) but the Madison has some additional features and it is a proprietary speaker. And from what I have heard, it is an excellent speaker at that- see the review!
I think this review gives much of the flavor to the Sachiko product. But... Again- I should have mentioned the above! Sorry.
Karl
It has a different flare profile to Sachiko, & is more refined, as benefits a commercial box, but they do share a family sound, as you would expect.- Status
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