You may wish to look at my web page on open baffle design considerations. There is some discussion that should explain why narrower baffles should be considered. The trade off is the reduction of efficiency at low frequency vs. smoother upper midrange response and potentially more uniform midrange power response with an appropriately chosen crossover point to the tweeter.
Some more progress... completed the H-Frame woofers.
The frame considerably relieve some pressure to the woofers as compared to plain baffle. I did not notice coloration (1/2 pipe resonance?) as my earlier build.
XO is quote high at 300Hz. initially I thought running the P13 low was a good idea until I did a test with single tones. It distorts audibly at around 130Hz and below. I don't know how this was not identified by Ariel builders.
The frame considerably relieve some pressure to the woofers as compared to plain baffle. I did not notice coloration (1/2 pipe resonance?) as my earlier build.
XO is quote high at 300Hz. initially I thought running the P13 low was a good idea until I did a test with single tones. It distorts audibly at around 130Hz and below. I don't know how this was not identified by Ariel builders.
Thanks for the explanation.
I actually did few tests. With and without dipole shelving lowpass (which would have added to more distortion). I actually thought it was not related to the driver themselves but xo clipping,etc. But after connecting them directly to amp the distortion persist.
I did some more research about this distortion, and could only find a reference from linkwitzlab. I read it before, but did not know it was that severe.
http://www.linkwitzlab.com/mid_dist.htm
I don't have other 5" to make comparison with. Do they all distort rather quickly at lower frequencies?
http://www.linkwitzlab.com/frontiers_3.htm#O
I actually did few tests. With and without dipole shelving lowpass (which would have added to more distortion). I actually thought it was not related to the driver themselves but xo clipping,etc. But after connecting them directly to amp the distortion persist.
I did some more research about this distortion, and could only find a reference from linkwitzlab. I read it before, but did not know it was that severe.
http://www.linkwitzlab.com/mid_dist.htm
I don't have other 5" to make comparison with. Do they all distort rather quickly at lower frequencies?
http://www.linkwitzlab.com/frontiers_3.htm#O
Thanks for that link and the tips. It would take me sometimes to digest.
I'm glad that I did not build my H-frames too deep otherwise the resonance will ruin it. They reproduce 300Hz fine without peaks, so a good match with P13WH.
I tested P13WH with single 290Hz tone at very loud level and do not hear any audible distortion. I may have to run a HD sweep to make sure.
I'm glad that I did not build my H-frames too deep otherwise the resonance will ruin it. They reproduce 300Hz fine without peaks, so a good match with P13WH.
I tested P13WH with single 290Hz tone at very loud level and do not hear any audible distortion. I may have to run a HD sweep to make sure.
Finally, this is to conclude this iteration 
What I have learnt/gain:
- Very smooth on and off axis up to 2.5khz due to thin baffle
- Very satisfying auditory presentation. And I have glass at the back.
- Pretty good aesthethics compared to previous iteration
- Cheap
What I wish for:
- P13WH to have lower response. I had to cross them at 290Hz.
5" drivers make good OB, and if I have to start over from scratch I would try that driver from Zaph ZA14W08 + DQ25SC16-04 tweeters. I think they will make a killer OB panel at less then $200.
... and now to the S10
What I have learnt/gain:
- Very smooth on and off axis up to 2.5khz due to thin baffle
- Very satisfying auditory presentation. And I have glass at the back.
- Pretty good aesthethics compared to previous iteration
- Cheap
What I wish for:
- P13WH to have lower response. I had to cross them at 290Hz.
5" drivers make good OB, and if I have to start over from scratch I would try that driver from Zaph ZA14W08 + DQ25SC16-04 tweeters. I think they will make a killer OB panel at less then $200.
... and now to the S10
Last edited:
5" drivers make good OB, and if I have to start over from scratch I would try that driver from Zaph ZA14W08 + DQ25SC16-04 tweeters. I think they will make a killer OB panel at less then $200.
... and now to the S10
Is the price $200 for each side? I like to suggest you may want to use Eminence alpha 8 as midrange, proves to very easy to drive and very efficient, use it with HI-VI 8 planar tweeter, this combo is used quite successfully by G. Pimm. You can buy Alpha 8 in Melb and Hi-Vi from Parts Express. You can get the x-over diagram from Gary P. free. The combo gives you about 94-95dB SPL, really. With your LM3886 you will have an excellent system.
I would construct this combo if not for alpha 8 which arrived too late. I bought a 2nd hand PHL (92dB) instead which is equally good. I can cross it at around 200Hz and 1.7Khz even when used as an OB. Sounds good too, I have used many drivers before.
Zaph's driver is only $40 each, along with $16 titanium dome Vifa, $200 would be for bothside (2x Zaph driver + 4x Vifa tweeters). ... but that's for another day.
I'm sold to the idea of well-measured tranducers the likes of what Zaph and SL is doing (nonlinear/linear distortion). Eminence 8" has great reputation but I can't really see available measurements.
I just received very well-priced Seas L21RNXP from EBay and still wondering what to do with them.
... but that's for another day.I'm sold to the idea of well-measured tranducers the likes of what Zaph and SL is doing (nonlinear/linear distortion). Eminence 8" has great reputation but I can't really see available measurements.
I just received very well-priced Seas L21RNXP from EBay and still wondering what to do with them
.
Progress...
...OK after 3 years in the making/listening/distractions with Waveguides I was prepared to find out how this configuration would sound with rigid metal cone. Went to Madisound to get Zaph ZA14, but was "out of stock"... so I ordered these instead:
Fountek FW146, Poor man's Seas Excel ?
DQ25, as recommended by mr. Zaph
Well guess what.. I checked madisound again and ZA14 is now available
Anyway the comparo would be between 2 dipole radiators with similiar configuration. One pair is soft cones (P13wh + Hivi K1s). The soft cones sounds very smooth and natural but I felt wanting more resolution at times. They are very forgiving on harsh/rock recording though. Even GnR sounded great!
...OK after 3 years in the making/listening/distractions with Waveguides
I was prepared to find out how this configuration would sound with rigid metal cone. Went to Madisound to get Zaph ZA14, but was "out of stock"... so I ordered these instead:Fountek FW146, Poor man's Seas Excel ?
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
DQ25, as recommended by mr. Zaph
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Well guess what.. I checked madisound again and ZA14 is now available
Anyway the comparo would be between 2 dipole radiators with similiar configuration. One pair is soft cones (P13wh + Hivi K1s). The soft cones sounds very smooth and natural but I felt wanting more resolution at times. They are very forgiving on harsh/rock recording though. Even GnR sounded great!
Last edited:
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.