MRSS, my dear, there's a thread that was made specially for you
Yeahhh man!..... exactly your beach!..... custom made to big fishes, the ones heavy with wonderfull life experience.
The place is also lovely, kind and peacefully.
hehe
GRollins and Variac, good to meet you all here.
I think the thread will be veeeery interesting with the shark...oh sorry, MRSS (Master researcher Super Shark)...who will be eated in the next breakfast?..ahahahaha!.
Welcome my dear MRSS, you are "the one" we were waiting for you... the "justice hammer" will crash some heads...ahahaha!
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=650701#post650701
regards,
Carlos
Yeahhh man!..... exactly your beach!..... custom made to big fishes, the ones heavy with wonderfull life experience.
The place is also lovely, kind and peacefully.
hehe
GRollins and Variac, good to meet you all here.
I think the thread will be veeeery interesting with the shark...oh sorry, MRSS (Master researcher Super Shark)...who will be eated in the next breakfast?..ahahahaha!.
Welcome my dear MRSS, you are "the one" we were waiting for you... the "justice hammer" will crash some heads...ahahaha!
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=650701#post650701
regards,
Carlos
Attachments
Sad to say, but the Who gave the worst concert I ever saw by a major rock act. Second worst was Black Sabbath. The best concert I ever saw, interestingly, was Jethro Tull.
Ah well, as we will--no doubt--shortly be informed, low distortion measurements are also absolutely essential for jazz and classical, as well. Not to mention the necessity to listen to both at 135dB.
(Through Community horns...natch.)
*Footnote* For those who aren't familiar with Community, they were and presumably still are builders of PA systems for live shows.
Now, will everyone who believes that PA systems constitute the be-all, end-all in reference quality sound please raise their hands?
Ah...I thought as much.
Grey
Another footnote: The only long horns I remember seeing/hearing used in a concert were for Edgar Winter back in the "Frankenstein" days. Most folks used short horns because they took up less space in the trucks. The horns at the Winter show were bolted together in three or four foot sections. Once broken down, the components nested to save space. The idea works, of course, but you're carrying a lot more wood, so they're heavy as hell. One downside is that the horns themselves are far from rigid, since they're trying to keep the weight down. In consequence, the resonances given off by the walls of the horns become dominant radiators in their own right and the sound is horribly, grotesquely colored as a result.
And this is what rnrss considers to be good sound?
Oh, puh-leeze!
Ah well, as we will--no doubt--shortly be informed, low distortion measurements are also absolutely essential for jazz and classical, as well. Not to mention the necessity to listen to both at 135dB.
(Through Community horns...natch.)
*Footnote* For those who aren't familiar with Community, they were and presumably still are builders of PA systems for live shows.
Now, will everyone who believes that PA systems constitute the be-all, end-all in reference quality sound please raise their hands?
Ah...I thought as much.
Grey
Another footnote: The only long horns I remember seeing/hearing used in a concert were for Edgar Winter back in the "Frankenstein" days. Most folks used short horns because they took up less space in the trucks. The horns at the Winter show were bolted together in three or four foot sections. Once broken down, the components nested to save space. The idea works, of course, but you're carrying a lot more wood, so they're heavy as hell. One downside is that the horns themselves are far from rigid, since they're trying to keep the weight down. In consequence, the resonances given off by the walls of the horns become dominant radiators in their own right and the sound is horribly, grotesquely colored as a result.
And this is what rnrss considers to be good sound?
Oh, puh-leeze!
well ladies, gentlemen and others I just acquired a design contract today that is going to be rather intense in the coming days ahead... so I expect it to take me into the next 2 weeks, (no more than 3 that is my deadline), So its unlikely that I will be able to spend much time on here bantering with you all till I am finished with this project... (no its not speakers or amps lol) I do promise I will get back to you all on this and I will even dig out the scope and take a few pics for your viewing pleasure... Hopefully by that time rolins will have improved his reading comprehension skills so he can better understand my previous posts and hopefully respond in context and maybe with any luck at all, just maybe he will make more constructive comments than what band I chose for my "example", or what group sounded poorly... Till then...
I checked out of the other thread..now I'm here.
taken from #20 in the 'Pass Labs>point my brain somewhere' thread ::
and
Now, if this doesn't constitute underlying bashing of that "Pass guy", I don't know what does! If it does not, perhaps you should choose your words more wisely.
taken from #20 in the 'Pass Labs>point my brain somewhere' thread ::
and
(referring to Pass)
rnrss said:
Now, if this doesn't constitute underlying bashing of that "Pass guy", I don't know what does! If it does not, perhaps you should choose your words more wisely.
Good for you mrss - re design contract! In 2-3 weeks I should have my 300W R2R MOSFET amp up. It's like no other - full symmetrical, (optional FET or) BJT cascode, no Vas, all on a 7" x 2" board with all discrete DC coupled circuitry and 0.002% THD. All active components are matched and BW is 7MHz -3dB but tailored with input and feedback to 100KHz and unconditional stability.
Here's the board -
Cheers,
Greg
Here's the board -
Cheers,
Greg
Attachments
Well, I think he was more pointing out that you seem to be mostly using one particular type of music as an example: Very loud rock over live sound PA systems. While I agree that it might be a lot of fun recreating some of my favorite rock concerts in my house, that is not the only music I listen to. I suspect a lot of people other people on this site don't listen to string quartets at 120 dB or even jazz combos at that volume.
I do agree that dynamic range is very important to creating a realistic sound, and even if the overall volume isn't really loud. so we agree on that, and I use efficient drivers for this reason. However, I can certainly understand a person that is willing to trade this for let's say tonal beauty maybe.
I don't see how some scope pics are going to convince people that their approach is wrong. I suspect they will just continue to enjoy their systems whether or not you approve.
phase_accurate said:Again one of those boring guys who wants to tell us that an amp with a DF of 10 000 has hundred times more control over a speaker than one with a DF of 100 !
Regards
Charles
Check the Loudspeaker forum, rnrss made some revelations there.
One of them is: he uses and abbuses EQs, so he doesn't even know the real sound of his system without all that junk.
He probably doesn't know the real sound of live, unamplified instruments, he just aspires to blow the windows of his house with sound pressure.
We?
We just wanna have fun listening to some music.
Better still, if it approaches REAL live music, and not a huge PA system.
I once thought that damping factor was really, really important. Then it was pointed out to me that it's a diminishing returns sort of thing and that a damping factor of 1000 isn't 10 times better than a damping factor of 100. Later came the realization (rather painfully, I might add) that some of the things you do to get a super-high damping factor--like huge amounts of negative feedback--have unfortunate side effects of their own and should be treated much the way you would treat a chain saw running at full throttle. If you're not careful, it'll be just a happy to take a chunk out of you as the tree you're sawing.
People besotted with high rates of negative feedback don't listen to much live, unamplified music. Otherwise, they'd realize the differences between what they think is "truth" and the sound of real instruments. And yes, it does matter, even if you listen to acdc at 135db.
Consider this: When you go to the eye doctor, he tests you using eye charts with a nonsense string of letters. This allows the doctor to fit you with lenses that will allow you to look at anything you want, from business reports to pretty girls. It does not mean that the glasses are only good for looking at strings of letters. Treat unamplified music the same way (assuming that it doesn't appeal to you). Use it to get your system set properly. Then you can listen to anything you want, secure in the knowledge that it will be in focus and with all the proper detail.
That used to seem like a wierd, complicated, and bizarre concept to me. These days, it seems pretty obvious. Just took a while for me to get there.
Grey
People besotted with high rates of negative feedback don't listen to much live, unamplified music. Otherwise, they'd realize the differences between what they think is "truth" and the sound of real instruments. And yes, it does matter, even if you listen to acdc at 135db.
Consider this: When you go to the eye doctor, he tests you using eye charts with a nonsense string of letters. This allows the doctor to fit you with lenses that will allow you to look at anything you want, from business reports to pretty girls. It does not mean that the glasses are only good for looking at strings of letters. Treat unamplified music the same way (assuming that it doesn't appeal to you). Use it to get your system set properly. Then you can listen to anything you want, secure in the knowledge that it will be in focus and with all the proper detail.
That used to seem like a wierd, complicated, and bizarre concept to me. These days, it seems pretty obvious. Just took a while for me to get there.
Grey
GRollins said:
Oh man... I couldn't have said it better.
The problem is... some don't like the sound of real instruments.
And then they go round and round in circles tuning their systems with all sorts of artifacts (EQs, valves
...) to make it sound as they want it to sound.For me, there's nothing more rewarding (soundwise) than hearing a guy playing drums in front of me.
Not inside a garage or a small pub, but on the street, in a park...
No wall reflections, just lightnin' FAST transients, transparency, immediacy.
It doesn't have to be LOUD, it doesn't has to have very LOW bass, it just has to be (and it IS) real.
And then there's good accoustical guitars, accoustical bass, piano, etc.
An audio system must be as near as possible from reality.
This means that bad recordings sound bad, good recordings sound good, very good recordings sound REAL.
If it's not the case, something is not right and...
'Every step that you make
could be your biggest mistake
it could bend or it could break
that's the risk that you take.'
(c) 2005 Coldplay
Couldn't agree more on that. Every time I catch myself obsessing about fractions of a dB or hundredths of a percent, I remember my experiences walking down a city street, hearing music coming from a window or around a corner or down the street. No doubt horrible echoes, very non-flat response, scrambled eggs for a waveform, yet my ear-brain said, "Live!" I've just never heard anything like that in someone's living room. What's cuing me? I have no clue...
Probably phase, stereo recording techniques bring about phase anamolies(spaced mics) and pan-potted recordings deal purely with level to Left/Right a signal, then of course there's the incorrect mapping of sound etc.
Without these things being present and correct(amongst others), it's few and far between that you can mistake a loudspeaker for an unamplified source. Although, I often wonder on the rare occasion a stereo system does fool me(usually when someone else is watching tv, listening to a recording outside of the room I'm in), what was happening in the recording to fool me?
Hey, carlos, finally something we can agree on
Cause for celebration I'd say
I'm glad that some very good stereo recordings sound real, to you. Unfortunately, for me, I'm yet to find a stereo recording that sounds "real" to me, maybe it'll be different once I find an Ambisonic decoder/set up an Ambisonic system, but then even if I get closer, I doubt it'll ever be truly "REAL".
Once again, I digress from topic. But regardless, here's to those in such of the "real"
jacco vermeulen said:
Anyone of you ever heard bands play in the tunnels of the Paris subway ?
Now there is where i would like to have a condo with just 1 window.
There, or at the theatre of Verona in Italy for some Aida when i am in the mood.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=38342&highlight=
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