Also, the air in the port is not under the control of the amp. If you decrease the size of the diameter of the port, it also decreases the length of the port, greatly reducing the air in the port and tightening up the response. Properly sized it still has the same tuning frequency. It also lowers the output. Could be an easy solution.
+1 for SS
The excels are great but that breakup mode is more than a 'notch' will fix. When things get dynamic, the voicecoil heats, and the impedance changes. This makes notch filters 'miss' sometimes, especially on dynamic material, and thus the 'fry your ears' sound of the excel drivers improperly implemented.
they're very excellent with sufficient TLC though. But the SS is also excellent and MUCH easier to work with.
The excels are great but that breakup mode is more than a 'notch' will fix. When things get dynamic, the voicecoil heats, and the impedance changes. This makes notch filters 'miss' sometimes, especially on dynamic material, and thus the 'fry your ears' sound of the excel drivers improperly implemented.
they're very excellent with sufficient TLC though. But the SS is also excellent and MUCH easier to work with.
Krell Lat 2 use Revelator 10.000$
Krell Resolution 3 use Seas Mag. 5.000$
So, based on price, +1 for SS
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Krell Resolution 3 use Seas Mag. 5.000$
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
So, based on price, +1 for SS
Member
Joined 2003
Haven't you made up your mind yet?
Cost of commercial speakers does not really relate to individual driver performance much, especially if the difference in cost is double. You'd think there would be more to consider than a change of ~$100 in driver cost to account for $5000 difference in price to the consumer, would you not?
Cost of commercial speakers does not really relate to individual driver performance much, especially if the difference in cost is double. You'd think there would be more to consider than a change of ~$100 in driver cost to account for $5000 difference in price to the consumer, would you not?
Some fotos of krell lat and Resolution:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
carlomar said:
I have made very simple and quite ok 2ways with 5" in small closed
Somehow it always seem to work
6" never really seem to work in closed
Though, different drivers from yours
Could try just a big hole through the bottom, and no port, but heavily stuffed (not around the driver though)
Ok, I do know theres more to it than that
I have only made one BR, 2ways with Seas 8"(paper) and Thiel/Accuton tweeter(C22)
It sounded quite good, but from various port changes it was evident that there was some level of audible phase issues related to the port
I got the best result with heavy stuffing around the port
Driver was placed near top of box, and port at the bottom, which may have been the cause of problems
I adjusted them up against my own 3way
The young boy that owns them have tried to find better, but didnt like any he heard
Though, commercial speakers may have improved since then, but I guess so have DIY designs
carlomar said:After some time for reflection, my hert is prone for SS.
But now i have another question:
Should i have more controled bass with 15w ported or with 18w closed?
please ... be patient whith me
As already said many times in this thread, both drivers are high quality drivers which perform very well in a properly executed design. It is my opinion that, against popular believe, the Scanspeak is almost as difficult to design a proper XO for as the Seas Excel drivers.
But generally I think that of the "published DIY" designs the Seas Excel designs are much better than the designs offered for Scanspeak. So if you are inclined to choose an existing design I would consider a Seas Excel design (e.g. a Troels design). Not because the driver is much better, but because the design will generally be better.
I've never used the ScanSpeak Revelator drivers, so I wont give you an advice on ScanSpeak vs Seas. But I do know the Excel magnesium drivers very well. I once had W17EX serial numbers 1 to 4... the first ones that was made in fact. That was in 1994 or something like that.
The Excels are wonderful drivers, within their limits. As someone has already pointed out, the 3rd harmonic rises dramatically above 1/3 of the breakup frequency. For the 6.5" and 8", the distortion rise starts at 1300 Hz, and around 2000 Hz for the 4" and 5".
I have the old datasheets that show TDH measurements, if anyone is interested... ?
The Excels are wonderful drivers, within their limits. As someone has already pointed out, the 3rd harmonic rises dramatically above 1/3 of the breakup frequency. For the 6.5" and 8", the distortion rise starts at 1300 Hz, and around 2000 Hz for the 4" and 5".
I have the old datasheets that show TDH measurements, if anyone is interested... ?
A friend email me this:
" In my modest opinion, the search of information only about to motive units,
is necessary but not in an exhausting way. For me the boxes are much more important
than the units that integrate, when it is bought the units we already know
your price, on the other hand the construction of boxes and your development is very
uncertain in terms of costs. There is at the market boxes that
integrate the same units and that have a very different final price, and they also
sound different.
I consider the purchase of the units a smaller risk, the boxes those yes they
constitute larger sonic risk and the consequent loss of money. If you plan
to build new boxes, it takes in consideration the size, the small
ones are more adaptable the all the rooms, and as minor goes the
coloration more musical pleasure
The audition room is also very important, for that we should not exalt your worst
characteristics, and if you already had good experience with small monitors it is
because these don't exalt the worst characteristics of the room, and your sise is more
appropriate for an audition the short it distances
All the opinions that you already had are valid, however the words of the " Decibel "
I think more coherent.
Propolix"
" In my modest opinion, the search of information only about to motive units,
is necessary but not in an exhausting way. For me the boxes are much more important
than the units that integrate, when it is bought the units we already know
your price, on the other hand the construction of boxes and your development is very
uncertain in terms of costs. There is at the market boxes that
integrate the same units and that have a very different final price, and they also
sound different.
I consider the purchase of the units a smaller risk, the boxes those yes they
constitute larger sonic risk and the consequent loss of money. If you plan
to build new boxes, it takes in consideration the size, the small
ones are more adaptable the all the rooms, and as minor goes the
coloration more musical pleasure
The audition room is also very important, for that we should not exalt your worst
characteristics, and if you already had good experience with small monitors it is
because these don't exalt the worst characteristics of the room, and your sise is more
appropriate for an audition the short it distances
All the opinions that you already had are valid, however the words of the " Decibel "
I think more coherent.
Propolix"
You`ve made a good decision. The SS sounds warm and natural and has excellent bass response. i`ve listened to many magnesium drivers - if used in the correct configuration, they sound very clear and transparent ( I personaly do not like them as there was no speaker where I couldn`t sense the metallic sound of the driver ), however the correct configuration is a 4-way, a 2-way is not a way to go with these drivers because of the cone breakup and increased distortion when close to the breakup freq. Even when going with a 4-way, the W26 woofers still have weaker bass response and dynamics when compared to the paper/carbon SS drivers. The paper drivers also need simple crossover, you could go 2nd order while I do not think this is possible with the magnesium drivers which need steeper xover and a notch to control the resonance.
Have in mind that the XT25TG has quite high distortion when played under 3Khz, a part of it comes from the plastic faceplate and the waveguide they have used.
Have in mind that the XT25TG has quite high distortion when played under 3Khz, a part of it comes from the plastic faceplate and the waveguide they have used.
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