Reference DAC Module - Discrete R-2R Sign Magnitude 24 bit 384 KHz

[danny_66]

Just bought some tools to tame the SMT components

 

[b0bb]

Hello,
yesterday I started soldering the Vref PS mod, one hour later I finally had one resistor soldered
I use a PC microscope to see what I'm doing.
Those SMT are really small, I've done some SMT soldering in 1206 package and that's still doable.
But the SMT package of the R2R is really small, many times the SMT component stick to my soldering iron instead of the PCB.
Is there some kind of trick to keep the SMT part on its place ?

Regards,
Danny

There are multiple options

1)Dab solder paste on the edges, place onto cap on board and heat it up using a soldering iron or hot air wand, gently hold down the component until the solder paste melts.

2)Can be done with solder wire, will need fine pitch solder wire and a fine tip.

3)SMD tweezer, I use a Metcal MFR4

 

[Calvin]

Hi,

haven´t followed this thread for months, so I´m not up-to-date with the development of this DAC.
My Q now is following:
Has the problem of possible overly long locking delay been tackeled or maybe been solved?
You might remember that a changing input signal clock rate could lead to long delay times of up to 10sec, before locking.
Inaudable sub-ms reclocking times under all circumstances are possible and desirable.
What´s the state of affairs in this regard?
A major update and a user manual was appointed earlier this yeara also.
Soekris own website seems to not host any of both.
Is there a third party link?

jauu
Calvin

 

[TNT]

DAC is after FW upgrade essentially quiet at SF change (toslink). No manual as yet.

//

 

[andyjevans]

Can I just ask a question here? I'm in need of a new Dac and this is high on the list. So is the DDDac which I have heard and like a lot.

Has anybody compared these two directly?

 

[rickmcinnis]

Good afternoon Mr. 4P1L,

I have not but someone I trust has and that is nige2000. He has both, well actually, he came up with his own DDDAC - same circuit but not using Doede's boards - and he liked the DDDAC better, not a lot better.

Nigel has done lots of mods to the SOEKRIS and was getting happier with it but has been so busy lately he has not been able to pursue it. He had at last report not installed one of Paul's filters which make a substantial difference. I suspect it would change his ranking based on what I heard with Paul's filters

I am of the opinion that the SOEKRIS will be better but that has lots to do with your willingness to tinker with it.

I think the standard implementation sounds good and with moreDAMfilters/Paul's filters it can sound very good.

A work in progress. I have faith that the SOEKRIS will end up being vastly superior but patience and manual labor will be required.

Be sure to look here for more information:
moreDAMfilters

https://hifiduino.wordpress.com/

Dimdim's Blog | DIY Audio, Arduino, Computers, Music

Tír Na HiFi • View topic - Soekris Dam Dac

 

[andyjevans]

Good afternoon Mr. 4P1L,

I have not but someone I trust has and that is nige2000. He has both, well actually, he came up with his own DDDAC - same circuit but not using Doede's boards - and he liked the DDDAC better, not a lot better.

Ah - my 4P1L PSE amps have some recognition! They sounded great with the DDDac. Right now, for me as a not-very-digital-person it looks like the DDDac is a simpler solution, with the spadework mostly done and dusted. Looks like R2R Dacs go through almost eternal upgrades, though there's no doubting the fan base. Thanks for the links.

 

[nige2000]

Ah - my 4P1L PSE amps have some recognition! They sounded great with the DDDac. Right now, for me as a not-very-digital-person it looks like the DDDac is a simpler solution, with the spadework mostly done and dusted. Looks like R2R Dacs go through almost eternal upgrades, though there's no doubting the fan base. Thanks for the links.

id much prefer the soekris dac at first release stock over the dddac 1794 stock
there should be no comparison at this stage
so if your not into modding....

spent a lot of time on my version of the dddac
have very little done with the dam dac as of yet and its got far more potential

dunno when im gonna get back to the modding

any recent pics of your build rickmcinnis?

 

[rickmcinnis]

I have to assume your intrepid nature wants to take a break!

Actually in many ways the SOEKRIS is easy in comparison to what is required to get the DDDAC really sounding good.

I bought the boards but never finished when the SOEKRIS became available.

The mods for an all singing all dancing DDDAC are more extensive than with the SOEKRIS especially if you start with a new board which has the needed mod for the resistor stack power supply already done. One could find happiness with just a better power supply.

But if you have already tinkered with the DDDAC I can see you not wanting to start another DAC project. I thought you were DACless when I posted.

nige, where would I post pictures? Looks like TIR NA is moribund! Been listening to LPs these days. Sad how far ALL digital has to go. Might have something to do with getting a Transfiguration Proteus for which I cannot find the words to describe what it does. Other than psychedelic ...

 

[manniraj]

Soekris, any idea when will the new version of 0.012% be available on the US site.

Any updates Soekris on the availability of the new version on the US site?

Thanks

 

[rhythmsandy]

Okay so here it is, my humble conclusion, or should I say verdict, of the sound quality of the dam1021-01 after it has been running for more than a week straight.
I have only been using the isolated I2S in via the Amanero board and I have tested both the balanced XLR outputs and the raw SE rca outputs at J7. Haven’t had the chance to use the other inputs yet. Also I’m still on the original firmware (not that it matters in terms of SQ).

Various sorts of music have been played, acoustic jazz and classical, rock, pop and some electronica. Some of these are regarded as ‘audiophile’ material and some not. Some material are genuine stereo miked recordings, others are typical modern studio layered recordings. A lot of well known music that I use when I test the SQ of different equipment. Uncompressed 44.1, 88, 96, 192 and even some higher res. as well as mp3 320Khz.

In his first post Søren aimed high, hinting at R2R-ladder dacs as totalDac and MSB. So naturally my hopes were high having owned a non-oversampling Discreet Monica R2R-ladder dac myself, as well as having heard the absolutely outstanding totalDac.

Now, the first thing that struck me with this dac was the harsh digital sound it produced. Okay, it had only been running for a few minutes so that was to be expected. Unfortunately this still hasn’t changed to a degree I had hoped for.

Most music sounds quite flat, the image is 2D, lacking depth and calmness. Not at all the 3D sensation or holographic image which are the trademarks of an R2R dac. There are however, a lot of details. But it doesn’t transcend into the sense of the acoustics of the recording room or the texture of the instruments or the sensation of space between the instruments.

Lots of details yes, but when presented with complex multilayered music such as Carl Nielsens' 5th it can't keep the grip and the composition sort of collapses. It's hard to really decipher the instrument groups and the notes each group is playing. At times the 5th sounds somewhat chaotic. The dac fares better with smaller ensembles, though the placement of each instrument is not always crystal clear. The soundstage is simply too wide IMO - very left-rightish.
With both my old Discreet Monica and the totalDac you instantaneously go ‘Yes, there it is’! Your heart is at rest. There is really no need to describe the experience of those dacs much further, as music is being played as it should be, effortlessly and naturally. Dacs like these make all other dacs, including dam-1021, sound like they are struggling. You’re listening to music while with the dam-1021 I still find myself listening to a piece of equipment.

To my ears the frequency spectrum is not flat. I hear an emphasis on the upper mid and treble region that makes, for instance brass and horn sections, and even sometimes solo saxophones, sound metallic. Very unpleasant to my ears.

Another thing that really bugs me with this dac is the aggressive in-your-face signature. I suspect there is a connection between its forwardness and the biased frequency spactrum? Maybe exchanging the caps would help in this respect?

It does however, seem to benefit from a tube amplication. I would like to hear how it performs swapping the ceramic(?) caps and maybe another clock than the Si514 if it’s applicable. Also different output stages, a Lundahl trafo or a tubed one.

It’s still not really clear to me whether there is a default FIR filter installed or if it’s bypassed? And will it be possible to deactivate oversampling altogether although Søren advises against it?

Is there anyone here who’ve tried to mess around with different FIR filters with this dac?

Anybody in this forum who have heard or own a totalDac (or any other R2R-ladder dac) are welcome to chime in after hearing the soekris dac.

I’m sorry to drop this bomb but my hopes are that we’ll all end up with a product that can really compete with the totalDac & MSB, for the benefit of all diy’ers who cannot afford a totalDac or the like - and enjoy tailormade electrical toys. Maybe there is a basis for doing some experimental modding on the existing dac or for Søren to work on a vers. 2?

I want anybody compare this with Total DAC? as previous posts states about the quality issues who have auditioned both the TotalDACs and even my friends who have auditioned TotalDAC says absolute bliss but when I shown this dac they said its long way to go and no comparison... dont know why this is happening with this DAC. I took it to my friend`s studio did a AB comparison with a DigiDesign / presonus and what we figured out is this DAC has detail and not natural sounding. There is whole lot of body in mids and lower midrange and upper bass is missing.

 

[rhythmsandy]

soekris can you figureout a way why there is body missing in the mid region will it be fixed on future releases?

 

[spikestabber]

soekris can you figureout a way why there is body missing in the mid region will it be fixed on future releases?

You quoted a very old post, this was well before the vref mods came to light, which made a ridiculously huge impact on sound quality (especially on the low end). Everyone should perform the mod as in the old stock configuration there is a lot of hash/ripple on the vref rails.

 

[andyjevans]

You quoted a very old post, this was well before the vref mods came to light, which made a ridiculously huge impact on sound quality (especially on the low end). Everyone should perform the mod as in the old stock configuration there is a lot of hash/ripple on the vref rails.

Are all the Vref mods you mention incorporated in the new boards?

I haven't read the whole thread, and still wondering whether to go DDDac or Soekris. The DDDac is pretty settled and seems there's a lot more modification to be done to the Soekris. Is that a fair assumption, or are the new boards free from the "hard" sound quality previous users talk about?

 

[Stixx]

soekris can you figureout a way why there is body missing in the mid region will it be fixed on future releases?

Sorry, with all respect, but this is so silly to say...

You don't state what has been done to the DAM1021 you were listening to nor the rest of the chain. Apart from that it is very subjective anyway.
Start modding the DAM yourself and come to your conclusions doing so instead of just asking Soren when he will fix this and that. After all this is DIY... when you want a Total DAC or similar, well spend the money.

 

[Stixx]

Are all the Vref mods you mention incorporated in the new boards?

I haven't read the whole thread, and still wondering whether to go DDDac or Soekris. The DDDac is pretty settled and seems there's a lot more modification to be done to the Soekris. Is that a fair assumption, or are the new boards free from the "hard" sound quality previous users talk about?

The new boards have the Vref mods already installed and of course the latest firmware. You can go to extremes modding the DAM but you don't need to. The Vref mod on the new boards uses 47uF SMD caps in // to the existing ones since it is plain impossible to solder electrolytic caps without changing the layout.
It could be that the very first versions (filters) were hard sounding, but the DAM has come a LONG way just by all the filter work Paul did (spzzzkt). Soren probably used that input for his newly released filters.
I haven't even performed the Vref mod, but with one of the latest filters (using I2S and a DC supply) my DAM is the most natural sounding DAC I owned. Of course my subjective opinion (on a fairly top notch headphone rig) and YMMV.

 

[andyjevans]

Thanks for that Stixx! Helpful information. It sounds like the new boards are a big improvement in sound quality?

 

[Stixx]

Andy,
the DAM1021 was a very capable DAC from the beginning, outperforming a Subbu ES9023 easily (but you have to be fair by keeping the price difference in mind ).
From there it simply got better and better with all the input from forum members and the latest release... get one and try yourself.
Just use a good USB to I2S board (I am using the DIYINHK one with very good results) and a suitable DC supply.
I remember that initially you were looking at chinese DACs... well the DAM1021 clearly is another league. Treble performance and resolution should very well match with your DHT amps

 

[Abra]

Andy,
the DAM1021 was a very capable DAC from the beginning, outperforming a Subbu ES9023 easily (but you have to be fair by keeping the price difference in mind ).
From there it simply got better and better with all the input from forum members and the latest release... get one and try yourself.
Just use a good USB to I2S board (I am using the DIYINHK one with very good results) and a suitable DC supply.
I remember that initially you were looking at chinese DACs... well the DAM1021 clearly is another league. Treble performance and resolution should very well match with your DHT amps

Do you mean that SebastianL has golden ears, so his opinion counts? If yes, maybe you are right.

Probably it's not an impossible mission to find a lot of DAC especially with low level DAC chips producing more unpleasent sound than the DAM.

But it doesn't mean DAM is in the category of Totaldac, as stated in the very first comment here, when the VREF bug was unknown, but existed.

I hesitate to buy the DAM board, because I do not belive "everything is better" type reviews (see "comparision" vs DCS). They are mostly declarations only, not a review. I have found very rare reviews, where the reviewer could express his experience/opinion/comparision results. And these rewies say me no.

It may be a successfull project technically and from a diyer point of view, but as an audiophile, I'm not yet convinced.

 

[TNT]

Ultimately after having check technical aspects and read impressions one has to take the jump... or not. One will win some and loose some....

Since my encounter with the DCS I have improved my DAM a lot.

# I did the ref mods (shorting)
# Added 1000uF per vRef (4)
# Added 1000uF for clock power feed.
# Physically dampened the clock chip with Noise Killer sound damping paint.
# Replaced output filter caps with styroflex cap (same value)
# Use switched pwr -> 2 12v Hypex stab -> Kenteokens Kmultipliers -> DAM (this beat batteries for me)
# FW 0.99 + MoreDamfilters

Approx 400€?

Its very good but in no way forgiving or smoothing. There might still be some little things to fix... Can you handle the truth?

https://youtu.be/5j2F4VcBmeo?t=9

I will bring it to the DCS owner hopefully son to compare again but also to listen to it in an different high standard environment.

//