Hi Tiny,
I think so yes but adding passive LPF should be more improved; future project
---
Kohjin
Well, it's still a breadboard, under construction of course.
I agree, you are right. I will put them together in a certain aluminum case later.
---
Kohjin
So we did this shoot out. 4 contenders on their respectively owner on the start line:
- The DAM owner and the DAM. That would be me. It was run on 2 12v SLA batteries of 7VA each connected to the power inlet for the DAM. The unbuffered single end outputs was used. The filters where the MB2b from the filter development thread. Toslink opto was used as means of connection.
- The DCS owner an the Debussy. The DCS was run on regenerated 230V from a 60VA SLA battery via a converter producing true sinus on its output. Galvanic s/pdif was used as no opto is available. Natural filter was used.
The VEGA owner and the Auralic Vega. Run on ordinary main 230v. Run in “femto clock” mode after waiting one hour. Was run on toslink opto (mostly, see end note).
The prototype owner and the prototype. ESS9018 based DAC. Run on ordinary main 230v.
Oppo 105 as delivered from factory served as CD driva feeding opto toslink out. It was run the 230V from a 60VA SLA battery.
Speakers where JBL Array 1400. Power amplifiers where B&O icepower ASP 1000. Cabling was solid core with teflon isolation throughout.
Room was 4,5 by 7,5 meters dedicated for music but no specific room “treatments”.
We played a round of 3 tracks with symphony orchestra with massed strings, solo piano and male voice with guitar. These where well done 44,1 / 16 recordings.
Levels where realistic for the different kind of performance and typical venue.
After this round, each where asked to rank the playbacks, and they fell as follows:
1,2,3,4 with 1 as the preferred:
DCS owner: Prototype, DAM, Vega, DCS
Prototype owner: Prototype, DAM, Vega, DCS
Vega owner: Prototype, Vega, DAM, DCS
DAM owner: Prototype, DAM, Vega, DCS
So with the prerequisites listed above it’s fair to say that the outcome was:
Prototype, DAM, Vega, DCS.
So what was the differences. Let me make a statue analogy.
While the Prototype statue was made of granite, polished to a velvet finish but still with very fine molded structural details, the rest sounded, in comparison and to an increasing degree, like made of firm jelly, with a coercer surface and to a degree where the fine details is lost and the surface gets a bit unpleasant to the touch.
The DAM was equal in size and had an equal tonal balance but also resembled some of the authority and detail in the lower regions. It could however not match the resolution, clarity and stability of the soundscape coming from the Prototype. The Vega sounded more confused and “smaller” and less clean overall. DCS was actually not very pleasant att all. The DCS did not do well at all on the piano piece - we ended this prematurely actually.
Ending the session we played the Vega via USB and this seemed to improve the sound quite a bit. It became cleaner and/but also a bit more distant and with an yet a bit smaller statue. This playback was hampered by re-syncs every 10 seconds so was ended without any deeper understanding.
The DCS seems very sensitive to the s/pdif cable. Also seemed sensitive to surrounding equipment. The DCS owner requested the DAM to be unpowered during DCS playback as he felt that the playback was impaired while switched on.
I would say that the Prototype was substantially better than the rest. The DAM and Vega formed a middle group with DCS at the end. DCS owner today later reported that when all other gear was gone, the DCS sound much better again. This is not confirmed by any of the other participants.
So the DAM is very good value for money as already stated here. It can match and surpass esteemed products in the market. Sören has I believe not been able to meet his design goals as of yet. My guess is that he will not do so with the choose local board current power feeding and clock solution.
The DAM is however a real close flirt with some of the desirable state of the art properties and I’m sure it can be further improved.
The secret with the Prototype? … “power to the people”
Maybe my filter was not the best? Need to load one of the “Crap” filtres and check it out.
It’s all of course subjective. But I know what objective means.
//
- The DAM owner and the DAM. That would be me. It was run on 2 12v SLA batteries of 7VA each connected to the power inlet for the DAM. The unbuffered single end outputs was used. The filters where the MB2b from the filter development thread. Toslink opto was used as means of connection.
- The DCS owner an the Debussy. The DCS was run on regenerated 230V from a 60VA SLA battery via a converter producing true sinus on its output. Galvanic s/pdif was used as no opto is available. Natural filter was used.
The VEGA owner and the Auralic Vega. Run on ordinary main 230v. Run in “femto clock” mode after waiting one hour. Was run on toslink opto (mostly, see end note).
The prototype owner and the prototype. ESS9018 based DAC. Run on ordinary main 230v.
Oppo 105 as delivered from factory served as CD driva feeding opto toslink out. It was run the 230V from a 60VA SLA battery.
Speakers where JBL Array 1400. Power amplifiers where B&O icepower ASP 1000. Cabling was solid core with teflon isolation throughout.
Room was 4,5 by 7,5 meters dedicated for music but no specific room “treatments”.
We played a round of 3 tracks with symphony orchestra with massed strings, solo piano and male voice with guitar. These where well done 44,1 / 16 recordings.
Levels where realistic for the different kind of performance and typical venue.
After this round, each where asked to rank the playbacks, and they fell as follows:
1,2,3,4 with 1 as the preferred:
DCS owner: Prototype, DAM, Vega, DCS
Prototype owner: Prototype, DAM, Vega, DCS
Vega owner: Prototype, Vega, DAM, DCS
DAM owner: Prototype, DAM, Vega, DCS
So with the prerequisites listed above it’s fair to say that the outcome was:
Prototype, DAM, Vega, DCS.
So what was the differences. Let me make a statue analogy.
While the Prototype statue was made of granite, polished to a velvet finish but still with very fine molded structural details, the rest sounded, in comparison and to an increasing degree, like made of firm jelly, with a coercer surface and to a degree where the fine details is lost and the surface gets a bit unpleasant to the touch.
The DAM was equal in size and had an equal tonal balance but also resembled some of the authority and detail in the lower regions. It could however not match the resolution, clarity and stability of the soundscape coming from the Prototype. The Vega sounded more confused and “smaller” and less clean overall. DCS was actually not very pleasant att all. The DCS did not do well at all on the piano piece - we ended this prematurely actually.
Ending the session we played the Vega via USB and this seemed to improve the sound quite a bit. It became cleaner and/but also a bit more distant and with an yet a bit smaller statue. This playback was hampered by re-syncs every 10 seconds so was ended without any deeper understanding.
The DCS seems very sensitive to the s/pdif cable. Also seemed sensitive to surrounding equipment. The DCS owner requested the DAM to be unpowered during DCS playback as he felt that the playback was impaired while switched on.
I would say that the Prototype was substantially better than the rest. The DAM and Vega formed a middle group with DCS at the end. DCS owner today later reported that when all other gear was gone, the DCS sound much better again. This is not confirmed by any of the other participants.
So the DAM is very good value for money as already stated here. It can match and surpass esteemed products in the market. Sören has I believe not been able to meet his design goals as of yet. My guess is that he will not do so with the choose local board current power feeding and clock solution.
The DAM is however a real close flirt with some of the desirable state of the art properties and I’m sure it can be further improved.
The secret with the Prototype? … “power to the people”
Maybe my filter was not the best? Need to load one of the “Crap” filtres and check it out.
It’s all of course subjective. But I know what objective means.
//
So we did this shoot out. 4 contenders on their respectively owner on the start line:
- The DAM owner and the DAM. That would be me. It was run on 2 12v SLA batteries of 7VA each connected to the power inlet for the DAM. The unbuffered single end outputs was used. The filters where the MB2b from the filter development thread. Toslink opto was used as means of connection.
- The DCS owner an the Debussy. The DCS was run on regenerated 230V from a 60VA SLA battery via a converter producing true sinus on its output. Galvanic s/pdif was used as no opto is available. Natural filter was used.
The VEGA owner and the Auralic Vega. Run on ordinary main 230v. Run in “femto clock” mode after waiting one hour. Was run on toslink opto (mostly, see end note).
The prototype owner and the prototype. ESS9018 based DAC. Run on ordinary main 230v.
Oppo 105 as delivered from factory served as CD driva feeding opto toslink out. It was run the 230V from a 60VA SLA battery.
Speakers where JBL Array 1400. Power amplifiers where B&O icepower ASP 1000. Cabling was solid core with teflon isolation throughout.
Room was 4,5 by 7,5 meters dedicated for music but no specific room “treatments”.
We played a round of 3 tracks with symphony orchestra with massed strings, solo piano and male voice with guitar. These where well done 44,1 / 16 recordings.
Levels where realistic for the different kind of performance and typical venue.
After this round, each where asked to rank the playbacks, and they fell as follows:
1,2,3,4 with 1 as the preferred:
DCS owner: Prototype, DAM, Vega, DCS
Prototype owner: Prototype, DAM, Vega, DCS
Vega owner: Prototype, Vega, DAM, DCS
DAM owner: Prototype, DAM, Vega, DCS
So with the prerequisites listed above it’s fair to say that the outcome was:
Prototype, DAM, Vega, DCS.
So what was the differences. Let me make a statue analogy.
While the Prototype statue was made of granite, polished to a velvet finish but still with very fine molded structural details, the rest sounded, in comparison and to an increasing degree, like made of firm jelly, with a coercer surface and to a degree where the fine details is lost and the surface gets a bit unpleasant to the touch.
The DAM was equal in size and had an equal tonal balance but also resembled some of the authority and detail in the lower regions. It could however not match the resolution, clarity and stability of the soundscape coming from the Prototype. The Vega sounded more confused and “smaller” and less clean overall. DCS was actually not very pleasant att all. The DCS did not do well at all on the piano piece - we ended this prematurely actually.
Ending the session we played the Vega via USB and this seemed to improve the sound quite a bit. It became cleaner and/but also a bit more distant and with an yet a bit smaller statue. This playback was hampered by re-syncs every 10 seconds so was ended without any deeper understanding.
The DCS seems very sensitive to the s/pdif cable. Also seemed sensitive to surrounding equipment. The DCS owner requested the DAM to be unpowered during DCS playback as he felt that the playback was impaired while switched on.
I would say that the Prototype was substantially better than the rest. The DAM and Vega formed a middle group with DCS at the end. DCS owner today later reported that when all other gear was gone, the DCS sound much better again. This is not confirmed by any of the other participants.
So the DAM is very good value for money as already stated here. It can match and surpass esteemed products in the market. Sören has I believe not been able to meet his design goals as of yet. My guess is that he will not do so with the choose local board current power feeding and clock solution.
The DAM is however a real close flirt with some of the desirable state of the art properties and I’m sure it can be further improved.
The secret with the Prototype? … “power to the people”
Maybe my filter was not the best? Need to load one of the “Crap” filtres and check it out.
It’s all of course subjective. But I know what objective means.
//
Thanks for sharing TNT... kind of shocked to see the DCS doing as badly as it did in your shootout.
A tad off topic but would be interesting to know more details of the prototype setup
It is amazing how different the filters sound, I quite liked the default filter, one of the NOS filters clipped, the other didnt but sounded dead. Didnt much like the crap filters, a bit closed in for me.
Now listening to the min phase slow roll off and liking it a lot.
Early days, will be interesting to see how far it will go, I'm optimistic it will be rewarding.
BTW a Belkin F5U409 usb-serial adapter worked well for me. With a lot of help from GLT's blog- thanks!
Now listening to the min phase slow roll off and liking it a lot.
Early days, will be interesting to see how far it will go, I'm optimistic it will be rewarding.
BTW a Belkin F5U409 usb-serial adapter worked well for me. With a lot of help from GLT's blog- thanks!
The prototype is a commercial effort so I can not reveal any more. No hocus pocus. Just solid engineering and deep knowledge with zero illusion of any snake oil or boutique component worship. Actually has this common with the DAM, just executed to a higher degree of perfection it seems.
//
//
The filter used is here:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digi...filter-brewing-soekris-r2r-5.html#post4231131 post #124
Some could not load it... go figure..
//
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digi...filter-brewing-soekris-r2r-5.html#post4231131 post #124
Some could not load it... go figure..
//
While you guys are revelling in the delights of this dac , I’m still plugging away to get any sound from it other then the odd on/off pop. I’m running the RPi (version B) with Runeaudio 0.3Beta and have selected a I2S dac profile (all preconfigured profiles seem to behave similar with the following result).
The Dam1012 finds a signal lock as the green led comes on solid and I get a message on the console like L044 or L192, depending on the source material. I’ve tried differently 16 and 24 bit encode material, but no difference.
What I2S word length does the Dam1012 require? Does it require trailing or leading data at the signal clock?
, I’m still plugging away to get any sound from it other then the odd on/off pop. I’m running the RPi (version B) with Runeaudio 0.3Beta and have selected a I2S dac profile (all preconfigured profiles seem to behave similar with the following result). The Dam1012 finds a signal lock as the green led comes on solid and I get a message on the console like L044 or L192, depending on the source material. I’ve tried differently 16 and 24 bit encode material, but no difference.
What I2S word length does the Dam1012 require? Does it require trailing or leading data at the signal clock?
So we did this shoot out. 4 contenders on their respectively owner on the start line:
- The DAM owner and the DAM. That would be me. It was run on 2 12v SLA batteries of 7VA each connected to the power inlet for the DAM. The unbuffered single end outputs was used. The filters where the MB2b from the filter development thread. Toslink opto was used as means of connection.
- The DCS owner an the Debussy. The DCS was run on regenerated 230V from a 60VA SLA battery via a converter producing true sinus on its output. Galvanic s/pdif was used as no opto is available. Natural filter was used.
The VEGA owner and the Auralic Vega. Run on ordinary main 230v. Run in “femto clock” mode after waiting one hour. Was run on toslink opto (mostly, see end note).
The prototype owner and the prototype. ESS9018 based DAC. Run on ordinary main 230v.
Oppo 105 as delivered from factory served as CD driva feeding opto toslink out. It was run the 230V from a 60VA SLA battery.
Speakers where JBL Array 1400. Power amplifiers where B&O icepower ASP 1000. Cabling was solid core with teflon isolation throughout.
Room was 4,5 by 7,5 meters dedicated for music but no specific room “treatments”.
We played a round of 3 tracks with symphony orchestra with massed strings, solo piano and male voice with guitar. These where well done 44,1 / 16 recordings.
Levels where realistic for the different kind of performance and typical venue.
After this round, each where asked to rank the playbacks, and they fell as follows:
1,2,3,4 with 1 as the preferred:
DCS owner: Prototype, DAM, Vega, DCS
Prototype owner: Prototype, DAM, Vega, DCS
Vega owner: Prototype, Vega, DAM, DCS
DAM owner: Prototype, DAM, Vega, DCS
So with the prerequisites listed above it’s fair to say that the outcome was:
Prototype, DAM, Vega, DCS.
So what was the differences. Let me make a statue analogy.
While the Prototype statue was made of granite, polished to a velvet finish but still with very fine molded structural details, the rest sounded, in comparison and to an increasing degree, like made of firm jelly, with a coercer surface and to a degree where the fine details is lost and the surface gets a bit unpleasant to the touch.
The DAM was equal in size and had an equal tonal balance but also resembled some of the authority and detail in the lower regions. It could however not match the resolution, clarity and stability of the soundscape coming from the Prototype. The Vega sounded more confused and “smaller” and less clean overall. DCS was actually not very pleasant att all. The DCS did not do well at all on the piano piece - we ended this prematurely actually.
Ending the session we played the Vega via USB and this seemed to improve the sound quite a bit. It became cleaner and/but also a bit more distant and with an yet a bit smaller statue. This playback was hampered by re-syncs every 10 seconds so was ended without any deeper understanding.
The DCS seems very sensitive to the s/pdif cable. Also seemed sensitive to surrounding equipment. The DCS owner requested the DAM to be unpowered during DCS playback as he felt that the playback was impaired while switched on.
I would say that the Prototype was substantially better than the rest. The DAM and Vega formed a middle group with DCS at the end. DCS owner today later reported that when all other gear was gone, the DCS sound much better again. This is not confirmed by any of the other participants.
So the DAM is very good value for money as already stated here. It can match and surpass esteemed products in the market. Sören has I believe not been able to meet his design goals as of yet. My guess is that he will not do so with the choose local board current power feeding and clock solution.
The DAM is however a real close flirt with some of the desirable state of the art properties and I’m sure it can be further improved.
The secret with the Prototype? … “power to the people”
Maybe my filter was not the best? Need to load one of the “Crap” filtres and check it out.
It’s all of course subjective. But I know what objective means.
//
thanks for the report
think the filters still play a huge role as does power
clock needs to be powered separately/better on the dam
dont think the diode bridge did much harm
caps can be improved on
just hooking up transformers to the dam aint gonna even give a taste of whats achievable
think there's much more sq to come with mods
Hi Tiny,
I think so yes but adding passive LPF should be more improved; future project
---
Kohjin
I know Tango Xformers are well built but you may still find some of the HF left by FIR due to parasitic capacitance between windings, mostly if your amp has a hight impedance input.
--
Tiny
While you guys are revelling in the delights of this dac
The Dam1012 finds a signal lock as the green led comes on solid and I get a message on the console like L044 or L192, depending on the source material. I’ve tried differently 16 and 24 bit encode material, but no difference.
What I2S word length does the Dam1012 require? Does it require trailing or leading data at the signal clock?
@Soekris, can you comment on my question? I suspect your the only one who might have an answer to what is going on. Thanks.
Just buy a 20k stereo and parallel the two channels to get 10k
Parallel the channels even add some security to open circuit if wiper loose contact. Problem is that that linear pots are not so common in the high volume low price range found on eBay. Using a logarithmic potentiometer on top of the log scale already implemented in sw makes for strange volume adjustments for the user. Thats why I asked for lin/log selector.
I know Søren like us to use high quality plastic pots to suppress noise. But I'm not sure I understand how noise is a problem the way the pot is implemented using its own ADC and voltage ref? If I remember correct the code (not released jet) now also have a delay/open wiper check routine implemented witch should make for more forgiven sw in regard to noisy pots?
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