So you think it's pointless running them all as subs? I tought so. I'll split them 3 way then. These boxes are powered by peecker sound TVA 1800 amps givin them up to 600w. DJ's are going trough a beringher x32 and the dbx 2231 EQ. On the beringher i set the compressor and on the EQ i set ste limiter. So there are multiple points that protect the system from beeing clipped. But they do sometimes get 5 minutes long basselines at about 500w input power. We play dub,dnb and techno music trough them alot.
So i should use this clear glue and if i want to paint the surround what can i do. Mix the glue with black paint? How will i do that. What paint to buy. How can i squeeze the paint in the bottle of glue before putting the glue on. This seems slightly impossible
EDIT: I don't understand how to paint the surround with a marker. Someone tried explaining that.
So i should use this clear glue and if i want to paint the surround what can i do. Mix the glue with black paint? How will i do that. What paint to buy. How can i squeeze the paint in the bottle of glue before putting the glue on. This seems slightly impossible
EDIT: I don't understand how to paint the surround with a marker. Someone tried explaining that.
Having multiple levels of protection is fine but if the DJs are pushing into sustained compression or limiting for any amount of time.. ie: more than about 10 seconds at a time then the drivers are seeing a lot higher average power levels than they should. If the DBX limiter prevents the amps from clipping and the DJs aren't pushing the system into constant limiting then you would be better off removing the compressor and let the dynamics through, the drivers will cool better and you will actually decrease the chance of damaging them.
Surround Adhesives
These guys seem to have black adhesive for cone edge treatment. Scroll to the bottom of the page. What do you think?
These guys seem to have black adhesive for cone edge treatment. Scroll to the bottom of the page. What do you think?
Of course. I never set the limiters or the compressor to low. They are there just to start working in a case where the idiot pushes the system too hard even tough i told him not to hit red for about 75 times.But these are S800's. Theirs RMS rating is 700w. The amps can't even give them that much. They shouldn't get damaged by no matter what unless i pass 700w input power and not clip them. Theirs program power is 1.4kw
Yet they burnt up the voice coils.. can you explain how that happened? I can. What you are calling the drivers RMS rating is actually spec'd as 700w AES, and an AES rating of this vintage is pink noise with a 6db crest factor which is 3dB above a sine wave RMS rating. So for sustained synth tones these drivers can really only tolerate 350w.
Yes i can explain how that happened. I ran 10 parties (7-8 hours long each) mostly as much as they can take with no clip. Electronic music with a lot of basslines. They worked perfectly, never a problem. Even these yamahas witch have a program power ratin of 1200w and RMS rating of 600w, ran with no problems with 1000w input from yamaha p7000s amps. No clip and the system is safe. However one night i left them running for the guys from the club and someone drunk came and pushed the master fader to the max. And left it like that for a few minutes. Limiters have not been set up. The system clipped so badly they could have caused fire. The tehnician went to take a ****. When he came back it was to late. The club payed for the repair so...
S800's are not exactly vintage drivers. They are still very much used today. Whoever i asked, they told me up to 800w input they are safe no matter what you do. If you lowcut them properly and not clip them.
S800's are not exactly vintage drivers. They are still very much used today. Whoever i asked, they told me up to 800w input they are safe no matter what you do. If you lowcut them properly and not clip them.
Yeah that would do it.. shame the limiters weren't setup. And the vintage comment was more directed at the AES spec as that has changed recently(2012). Here's cool link to the differences in all these specs.. Speaker power handling < Pro-Audio References
Well yes but i just took a different approach. Ask someone who worked with these drivers what can they take 
. Basically everyone told me it's impossible distroying them with 600w input power if you do not clip and if you are not a complete idiot. With 800w you need to take care about the low cut. Depending on the type of box they are in. Considering my t18's are very open at the back, they are horns, they do not provide much resistance to the driver. So what i have found is that clipping is not even a n1 blocking factor with these bass bins. When i plug them in a sligtly more powerfull yamaha p7000s (2x650w) i can push them to the overexcursion limit where they are not clipping but you can hear the distortion allready. And then you turn them down a bit.
So really this wouldn't have happened if a drunk guy hadn't taken matters into his hands. But hoenstly it's not so bad at all because the club payed for the repair and they now have fresh coils and suspension vs 17 year old ones. I tested them yesterday and you can hear how much more powerfull and precise they sound now. Their bass is a lot more clear and they can hit properly violent at around 60hz.
I also decided to order clear cloth surround treatment from simple speakers. When you put them in the box you can't even see the suspension anymore. So who gives a crap about the yellow. They sound really nice now. That's what matters
. Basically everyone told me it's impossible distroying them with 600w input power if you do not clip and if you are not a complete idiot. With 800w you need to take care about the low cut. Depending on the type of box they are in. Considering my t18's are very open at the back, they are horns, they do not provide much resistance to the driver. So what i have found is that clipping is not even a n1 blocking factor with these bass bins. When i plug them in a sligtly more powerfull yamaha p7000s (2x650w) i can push them to the overexcursion limit where they are not clipping but you can hear the distortion allready. And then you turn them down a bit.So really this wouldn't have happened if a drunk guy hadn't taken matters into his hands. But hoenstly it's not so bad at all because the club payed for the repair and they now have fresh coils and suspension vs 17 year old ones. I tested them yesterday and you can hear how much more powerfull and precise they sound now. Their bass is a lot more clear and they can hit properly violent at around 60hz.
I also decided to order clear cloth surround treatment from simple speakers. When you put them in the box you can't even see the suspension anymore. So who gives a crap about the yellow. They sound really nice now. That's what matters
I would expect that a doped/treated surround will not be as easy to glue to either the paper cone or to the metal/plastic basket.
that may explain why they are undoped as standard. And why doping is applied after assembly/repair.
A sealed box and a vented box both require that the surround does not leak air.
A leak will seriously change the box loading.
Doping will affect the T/S parameters.
These two combined will affect the bass performance.
I would look at measuring the T/S of the undoped repair and compare to the T/S of the reconed version.
that may explain why they are undoped as standard. And why doping is applied after assembly/repair.
A sealed box and a vented box both require that the surround does not leak air.
A leak will seriously change the box loading.
Doping will affect the T/S parameters.
These two combined will affect the bass performance.
I would look at measuring the T/S of the undoped repair and compare to the T/S of the reconed version.
Well yes, there are reasons for the thing to be untreated from factory. But there aren't reasons for the guy not to threat it after installation. Luckily i have 15 dollars, 2 hands and a brush so this won't be a problem. I'm ordering the treatment today.
I'm not planning to measure the performance precisely. If my ear says the repaired and reconed one sound the same that's good enough. So far the repaired ones showed a higher drop when going under 60hz in comparison to the reconed one. Time to fix that.
I'm not planning to measure the performance precisely. If my ear says the repaired and reconed one sound the same that's good enough. So far the repaired ones showed a higher drop when going under 60hz in comparison to the reconed one. Time to fix that.
Can you please help me finding this flexible latex glue for cloth surround treatment anywhere in Europe. Simply speakers, orange country repairs and similar, are all companies located in US and shipping costs more then 2 bottles of the thing itself. I tried ebay, i tried everything but u can't find the thing
I literraly don't know about any recone company in europe. But i will try som further google digging.
I don't understand what do you mean by: smear the stuff with the black from inside the marker on the yellow surround
But it doesn't matter, i'll keep them yellow, you can't see it from the outside of the box anyway.
I don't understand what do you mean by: smear the stuff with the black from inside the marker on the yellow surround
But it doesn't matter, i'll keep them yellow, you can't see it from the outside of the box anyway.
Ok, permanent markers have a reservoir inside. It is not liquid. It will be likely a felt or a "cotton" like material that holds the black ink.
So, you open the marker - cut it open to expose the fat and hopefully "cotton" like interior, then use that stuff to wipe the color onto the surround.
You could just buy one of those BIG fat markers and use the BIG FAT end to do the job, but that may or may not be better than finding a marker with a soft felt or cotton-like interior, since that will conform to the surface of the surround.
All you want to do is to dye the yellow and make it black.
You could use a cotton ball and some india ink, as long as you don't *soak* the surface of the surround and make it wet.
The guy who sold you the repair, OUGHT to have speaker dope. Otherwise, what sort of recone shop does he run??
There have to be many shops that repair speakers in Europe. Many.
_-_-
So, you open the marker - cut it open to expose the fat and hopefully "cotton" like interior, then use that stuff to wipe the color onto the surround.
You could just buy one of those BIG fat markers and use the BIG FAT end to do the job, but that may or may not be better than finding a marker with a soft felt or cotton-like interior, since that will conform to the surface of the surround.
All you want to do is to dye the yellow and make it black.
You could use a cotton ball and some india ink, as long as you don't *soak* the surface of the surround and make it wet.
The guy who sold you the repair, OUGHT to have speaker dope. Otherwise, what sort of recone shop does he run??
There have to be many shops that repair speakers in Europe. Many.
_-_-
I seem to have finally found it:
Glue for rubber surrounds - 95 cc
I sent them an email allready.
Yes i realise how would you paint the suspension but i don't think that would look nice and even. And i still don't see how a layer of spray paint would significantly change the stiffnes of the suspension. But it doesn't matter. I'll keep it yellow.
Another question. When i'm running my bass bins from yamaha p7000s amps they seem to be able to pump out less power compared to my big old peecker sound tva1800 60kg tanks. In the specifications my amps should be able to pump out 2x585w into 8 ohms and yamahas should be able to pump out 2x650w into 8 ohms.
Now, my amps are 17 years old, they are class AB and they use huge amounts of electricity (up to 3kw each, when under load) theirs heatsinks are humongus and they pump out a lot of heat when running. Yamahas on the other hand are class D. They cool themselves passive or barely spin the fans at all. They are about 12kg heavey and use very little electricity. But my bass bins seem to sound quiter when using the yamaha amps. And they do not seem to have full control of the driver when maxing it out at low frequencies. It's like the driver is moving too much because the amp is running out of juice in it's capacitors and loses control over the membrane.
Is it really possible that these powerfull just a few years old yamahas are significantly worse then my 1997 peecker sounds?
Glue for rubber surrounds - 95 cc
I sent them an email allready.
Yes i realise how would you paint the suspension but i don't think that would look nice and even. And i still don't see how a layer of spray paint would significantly change the stiffnes of the suspension. But it doesn't matter. I'll keep it yellow.
Another question. When i'm running my bass bins from yamaha p7000s amps they seem to be able to pump out less power compared to my big old peecker sound tva1800 60kg tanks. In the specifications my amps should be able to pump out 2x585w into 8 ohms and yamahas should be able to pump out 2x650w into 8 ohms.
Now, my amps are 17 years old, they are class AB and they use huge amounts of electricity (up to 3kw each, when under load) theirs heatsinks are humongus and they pump out a lot of heat when running. Yamahas on the other hand are class D. They cool themselves passive or barely spin the fans at all. They are about 12kg heavey and use very little electricity. But my bass bins seem to sound quiter when using the yamaha amps. And they do not seem to have full control of the driver when maxing it out at low frequencies. It's like the driver is moving too much because the amp is running out of juice in it's capacitors and loses control over the membrane.
Is it really possible that these powerfull just a few years old yamahas are significantly worse then my 1997 peecker sounds?
Yes i know, its'a coating compound. And i still haven't found a single damn recone company in Europe that has/sells this thing. I sen't emails to 4 recone companies and they all said "we repair speakers but do not sell repair parts".
I did find a company in Australia but again shipping costs more then the thing itself.
I did find a company in Australia but again shipping costs more then the thing itself.
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