Not trying to be argumentative but there are at least a few isobaric designs which this is not the case. Also (not sure here) but I thought the new kef micro sub with back to back coupled magnets (idk if it pushing or pulling)was designed in ‘half space’ ?
2 drivers magnets back to back, both run in-phase=push-push? So if you run 1 out of phase doesn’t that become push-pull? Now if you physical turn one driver around and run both in-phase doesn’t this become a push-push isobaric design? If you then reverse the phase of the rear driver it becomes push-pull again? In these cases I assume only the push-push designs would be vibration canceling? Please tell me if I’m lost it’s been over 25 years since I designed an isobaric box
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But we are not taling about isobarik which is a completely different concept.
You are not accounting for the need to mechanically orient the drivers. In push-pull you are physically flipping a driver so it needs to be wired anti-phase electrically to be in phase acoustically.
Push-push requires a specific phycical configuration of the drivers. Push-pull the orirntation of the drivers wrt the box.
dave
You are not accounting for the need to mechanically orient the drivers. In push-pull you are physically flipping a driver so it needs to be wired anti-phase electrically to be in phase acoustically.
Push-push requires a specific phycical configuration of the drivers. Push-pull the orirntation of the drivers wrt the box.
dave
Dave????
I have a quick question: how many experiments did you have to accomplish before you actually started to 'SEE' what was happening?
Like you have pointed out, there are so many variables, that responding to these 'quotes or questions' is too time consuming. NO-ONE will ever figure it out, until they have experimented exhaustively.
We haven't even introduced the problem of amplification. Voltage source vs Current source.
I see why most of the guru's have simply stopped ready these threads.
To the OP; build countless boxes, try every possible combination, try every etc. etc. etc. .... Once completed, you will know.
There is no answer to your question.
It is not the destination. The journey is everything.
I have a quick question: how many experiments did you have to accomplish before you actually started to 'SEE' what was happening?
Like you have pointed out, there are so many variables, that responding to these 'quotes or questions' is too time consuming. NO-ONE will ever figure it out, until they have experimented exhaustively.
We haven't even introduced the problem of amplification. Voltage source vs Current source.
I see why most of the guru's have simply stopped ready these threads.
To the OP; build countless boxes, try every possible combination, try every etc. etc. etc. .... Once completed, you will know.
There is no answer to your question.
It is not the destination. The journey is everything.
I recognized the benefits the first time the idea was suggested (even before the KEF 104ii).
Many experiments leading up to a very specific experiment using 15 mm BB and 2 SDX10 that conclusively (AFAIC) showed the benefits of force cancelation.
And following what others are doing. KEF, NAIM, Martin Logan, and a growing number of others.
A simple expedient that brings huge benefit.
dave
Many experiments leading up to a very specific experiment using 15 mm BB and 2 SDX10 that conclusively (AFAIC) showed the benefits of force cancelation.
And following what others are doing. KEF, NAIM, Martin Logan, and a growing number of others.
A simple expedient that brings huge benefit.
dave
Yeah I’m not getting my head around the need for physical orientation, why aren’t any 2 drivers, in a common space enclosure, run out of phase with each other acting as push-pull, regardless of either drivers physical orientation? If a drivers opposed in a sealed box (magnets coupled) and run out of phase is not isobaric then what is it? The only difference I see between a sealed 1 subwoofer box with 2nd speaker coupled onto the outside (a common iso design) and a push-pull design is the side of the speaker/wave your using, what am I missing?
What? At least some of his content was relevant...I could be mistaken...correct me if I'm wrong.
Isobaric clamshell configuration is akin to push-pull and should exhibit some of the 2nd order harmonic reduction. Clamshell or the opposite where the magnets face. The coupling of the drivers should induce the same affect as the non isobaric push-pull config we are speaking of right? The super rigid dbl motor forced mechanics of isobaric, along with opposite facing woofers...I wonder if isobaric is under appreciated...
Heres my version of push push slot load. I designed it in Horn resp and so far it looks to be relatively accurate to the design...I won't know until I put it together fully and measure.
Attachments
I quick thought experiment was enough, no need to see what was happening. I have tried it BTW, works like a dream, of course, it puts more demands on the cabinet, one way or another, so is debateable how desireable it is, it stops a subwoofer from dancing around though.
Basically omnidirectional below 60Hz or so, with a pair of side lobes developing above, their directionality depending on cone size and frequency.
Start by learning about the Ka factor:
Speaker directivity / off axis response: theory and measurement techniques - Acoustic Frontiers