ER.... if it exists then it must be natural...where does super (or beyond/more than) come in?
Regards
M. Gregg
Self-censored
Regarding psychokinesis: if anyone is interested, I can send them schematics of the random number generator I used for a psychokinesis experiment in the early 1990's.
My experiment consisted of 25 runs of 10000 bits each. The first ten runs all had a deviation in the direction that was agreed upon before the equipment was started. The eleventh run produced a zero result and the following fourteen runs all had a deviation in the wrong direction. Overall the result was negative and not significant. Some test persons worked in a small electronics company, some others in the electronics department of a university.
My experiment consisted of 25 runs of 10000 bits each. The first ten runs all had a deviation in the direction that was agreed upon before the equipment was started. The eleventh run produced a zero result and the following fourteen runs all had a deviation in the wrong direction. Overall the result was negative and not significant. Some test persons worked in a small electronics company, some others in the electronics department of a university.
1a - they don't have sufficient paranormal powers (demi or semi-paranormal perhaps?)
2a - they have paranormal powers but the source was so strong and annoyed that it shielded the experiment from any outsider snooping
2b - the source lacked paranormal (or perhaps for such an entity, normal) powers and couldn't "play ball"
There are any number of apologies for why the experiment exposed an inability on the part of the "psychics". The reality is that after many many MANY years, no party has been able to show that psychic activity (and its various accompanying baggage including hauntings, possession and the like) is anything more than parlour tricks or entirely natural and explainable events.
So while technically and in a strict sense you may be correct in claiming an open-ness to the possibility of paranormal powers, its right up there with the acceptance that Marvel comic hero characters are not necessarily impossible variations of human capability...
And, an often stated answer is, as mentioned earlier, that paranormal is actually "normal". That is, everyone has these "powers" but the vast majority choose not to worry about it, it's a minor, side issue in their day to day lives. Just about every family has an anecdotal story, or a few about, say, how an aunt just "knew" that something unfortunate had happened to a family member prior to any normal communication. Women's intuition, synchronicity, on and on it goes, the world is awash with myriads of these harmless little stories, just on the edge of the "normal" stuff. It never really gets in the way of the "important" bits and pieces, it justs sits to one side, right on the very edge of our peripheral vision, ready to be noticed if we choose to do so ...
Frank
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Frank,
I am reading frustration...I feel that you believe that we all possess abilities that go beyond the physical - and that you are experiencing difficulties convincing others of these powers. It is as though you are on a different planet, no, a different side of this planet. I see you in a vast land with few people and broad wildernesses. Animals that look like rabbits the size of a man are nearby, but they stand upright.
In the end it isn't worth the wasted breath to argue these things...beliefs (sorry mods) are just that. Buy into them if you like, or not. In the end the believers will only be persuaded otherwise by themselves, and the skeptics already have found their answer. G'day mate!
I am reading frustration...I feel that you believe that we all possess abilities that go beyond the physical - and that you are experiencing difficulties convincing others of these powers. It is as though you are on a different planet, no, a different side of this planet. I see you in a vast land with few people and broad wildernesses. Animals that look like rabbits the size of a man are nearby, but they stand upright.
In the end it isn't worth the wasted breath to argue these things...beliefs (sorry mods) are just that. Buy into them if you like, or not. In the end the believers will only be persuaded otherwise by themselves, and the skeptics already have found their answer. G'day mate!
Yep, it's not worth frothing at the mouth about these things,
, as already stated there are a vast number of "pleasures" in the "ordinary" world, plenty enough to keep us busy. There are lots of people who deeply immerse themselves in this otherworld stuff, and it doesn't get them anywhere, they're no closer to paradise, nirvana or anything else than the James Randi's and friends.Of course, you should have picked the clues, I can do some of the paranormal stuff myself, if I'm in the mood ... . So what, it hasn't upended my world, it's just another bit of me, like someone being pretty damned good with the yo-yo, to be pulled out of the pocket at an appropriate moment to entertain, or help someone along a bit ...
Cheers,
Frank
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Then again, they might be.
But not be seriously researched.
(Are you a mentalist or a psychic? Don't obfuscate that important issue stated earlier.)
If the subjectivists would simply state their position in a non-objective way, there would be a lot less of the sort of thing going on in that "new interconnect" thread. I doubt that will occur, though, because as soon as there is "a foot in the door," the next step will be "My subjectivity is more objective than your subjectivity." That is, or rather points toward, the evil that resides there. It is best avoided (hence forum rules against).
Most probably the latter ... it's really about having a strong feeling or hunch about something, which could have been picked up all sorts of ways. I don't get the ones who prattle on at a ferocious rate while doing readings: a thought just comes in, and I mentally weigh it, does it feel "right" or am I trying to force a fit with my rational knowledge of the situation. If it's a decent pick-up, however it was done, then the gut feeling that it's right gets stronger ...
Yes, research at the moment, especially the way it's done, is probably a complete waste of time ...
Glad I never got onto the cable trip, well, did at the start, but have got the good results, that please me, with bog standard stuff, with just a few secret herb and spices added on ...
Frank
Hi Kevin,
I'm not interested at all in psychics; many of them have been exposed as frauds and none that I know off have been able to demonstrate their powers under controlled conditions.
Still, the results of laboratory studies of "paranormal" phenomena in ordinary subjects are a different matter. Despite of all the problems with lack of reproducibility, there are many apparently well-controlled experiments that showed highly significant results and in the meta-analysis of psychokinesis experiments (see the 1989 Radin and Nelson paper, http://www.alice.id.tue.nl/references/radin-nelson-1989.pdf ) none of the alternative explanations of sceptics were found to explain this.
I would very much like to know the cause of this, and whether or not studying these phenomena will eventually lead to a scientific revolution. As the progress in parapsychology is rather slow I doubt if will live long enough to hear the final answer.
Best regards,
Marcel
Just a thought,
I don't think that psychics are any different than anyone else (unless chosen for some reason) you can only talk to yourself if nobody is listening...I think its a bit like being an athlete..if you work at something you can raise your ability..if thats listening to HIFI...or building and fault finding on circuits...
Isn't that what training for a job is all about..or learning?
If it does take "Two" to tango..then you can search all your life and maybe not find the person hiding? Of course you would have to look very hard or the other person show themselves.. (Why would they hide?)
The other thing is does it take two people? The idea of the connection between two minds (life forms or other) If /when someone reads an object are they reading the object or using it as a focus (isn't that the same as a crystal ball) a focus for a link to something else..perhaps the HIFI is a link to something else (a group of people taking part in an experience)
how much effect does the (hive mind play) at a HIFI convention? ( I know when I listen to HIFI, am I listening to the music or feeling it (if I didn't feel it could I tell one system from another?).. (TV program)its interesting that a guy who had brain damage couldn't link notes of music togeather (he couldn't remember the last note to link it to the next)..all music sounded like noise. Why do people like different songs<<I know I get a nostalgia trip with music and the TV screen in my head turns on and I'm back in "1970/other time" just for a short while.
In a conversation what would happen if you couldn't remember the previous word?
We already know that the visible universe is (not the norm) there is more normal stuff that you can't see..everything is energy nothing else exists. E=mc^2.. Its quite fascinating that we are here at all.. non permanent Self Aware Structures (SAS)....
Regards
M. Gregg
I don't think that psychics are any different than anyone else (unless chosen for some reason) you can only talk to yourself if nobody is listening
...I think its a bit like being an athlete..if you work at something you can raise your ability..if thats listening to HIFI...or building and fault finding on circuits...Isn't that what training for a job is all about..or learning?
If it does take "Two" to tango..then you can search all your life and maybe not find the person hiding? Of course you would have to look very hard or the other person show themselves..
(Why would they hide?)The other thing is does it take two people? The idea of the connection between two minds (life forms or other) If /when someone reads an object are they reading the object or using it as a focus (isn't that the same as a crystal ball) a focus for a link to something else..perhaps the HIFI is a link to something else (a group of people taking part in an experience)
how much effect does the (hive mind play) at a HIFI convention? ( I know when I listen to HIFI, am I listening to the music or feeling it (if I didn't feel it could I tell one system from another?).. (TV program)its interesting that a guy who had brain damage couldn't link notes of music togeather (he couldn't remember the last note to link it to the next)..all music sounded like noise. Why do people like different songs<<I know I get a nostalgia trip with music and the TV screen in my head turns on and I'm back in "1970/other time" just for a short while.
In a conversation what would happen if you couldn't remember the previous word?
We already know that the visible universe is (not the norm) there is more normal stuff that you can't see..everything is energy nothing else exists. E=mc^2.. Its quite fascinating that we are here at all.. non permanent Self Aware Structures (SAS)..
..Regards
M. Gregg
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1/r for all conservative forces. It's not just a suggestion, it's the law.
Shive and Weber, "Similarities in Physics." Superb reading.
The mandelbrot set and julia sets are also very interesting (as are fractals in general). Purely mathematical, but turn up patterns that appear again and again in nature
Tony.
I guess,
that the mandelbrot set is trapped within the laws of the universe..which is set by? (whats around it?) so the patterns will reflect the universe because its part of it..
Regards
M. Gregg
What makes all this both interesting and confounding is that the human brain is the most highly developed pattern-finding machine known. The brain is so adept at causally connecting things that: major league pitchers believe they must touch the bill of their cap 3 times to execute a good pitch; people sitting at home watching a game believe that if they say they are going to win before the game ends, it can change the outcome; many people believe that certain numbers have been reserved for them and are lucky, interestingly these lucky numbers are only the miniscule minority of numbers that are positive and whole, no fractions, irrationals or imaginary lucky numbers.
This pattern-finding software has been invaluable over the course of history as, when it is correct it forms the basis of our ability to anticipate the future. It seems that this function is much less of an adaptive disadvantage when it is wrong than it is an adaptive advantage when it is right, so we all roll along happily finding patterns where only random fluctuations exist. Without it the poor folks peddling exotic audio equipment would surely starve!
This pattern-finding software has been invaluable over the course of history as, when it is correct it forms the basis of our ability to anticipate the future. It seems that this function is much less of an adaptive disadvantage when it is wrong than it is an adaptive advantage when it is right, so we all roll along happily finding patterns where only random fluctuations exist. Without it the poor folks peddling exotic audio equipment would surely starve!
Interesting,
Is the universe random? Or is there order in chaos?
Were back to cause and effect...its a bit like saying do we invent something or discover it...
One more thought..
Think of all the things made by man or animals that exist in the universe now that would not have existed if man never existed..
Where did these ideas come from..OK lets say chemical reactions...OK wow what a random chemical reaction..it created dreams, and a structure to make them come true...
Murder, love, hate, to name a few...all linked to us...man was random..would the computer have invented itself? well we did it didn't we..er no the universe did it..
Regards
M. Gregg
Is the universe random? Or is there order in chaos?
Were back to cause and effect...its a bit like saying do we invent something or discover it...
One more thought..
Think of all the things made by man or animals that exist in the universe now that would not have existed if man never existed..
Where did these ideas come from..OK lets say chemical reactions...OK wow what a random chemical reaction..it created dreams, and a structure to make them come true...
Murder, love, hate, to name a few...all linked to us...man was random..would the computer have invented itself? well we did it didn't we..er no the universe did it..
Regards
M. Gregg
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In regards to Psychic testing,
Psychic phemomena..works in the dream state..Its a PITA trying to learn to tell whats you or not you..regards learning its done by spending hours and hours in a circle telling what you see and seeing if it has any relevance at all.
I'll give an example of how its supposed to work and its not cold reading..although some people try to fake it because they have either tried an failed or for money etc.
This is what happens..you relax and look into the darkness in your mind<<this is the hard part because pictures are always popping in and out and its from yourself...with some long hard meditation, you can tell some pictures in your head look different (like a negative from an old camera) these pictures seem to glow a bit like night glow paint. And you can zoom in or out and get detail.
You say what you see and don't complete the whole picture..ie if you can see a scare or tattoo etc if someone then says they see the same thing and also tell you about the tattoo then this can be taken as evidence that what you see is not from you. (This is development not a science lesson)
It takes years of hard work and can make you ill if you are weak minded<<<why you ask because when you see the pictures your muscles distort giving the feeling of arthritis or other problems..HAHA yes its not funny..You need to have healers around you to protect you and people that are very stable..and they don't take fools gladly.
You can try and get something for months ...if "They don't want to talk you don't get anything"..I am told HAHA that if they think you can't handle it they won't contact you..if you are weak then you can be attacked by etc etc...
The idea seems to be if you see them, they see you..I don't have a clue if this is correct..However I woulden't take the chance..
And I have said before I'm not religious..This has nothing to do with cold reading. (I don't do anything now).
So looking at how hard it is to control in your own mind....I'm not surprised they can't prove anything...This isn't Oh i'll have a guess ..your sister is mazie oh sorry paula...
Regards
M. Gregg
Psychic phemomena..works in the dream state..Its a PITA trying to learn to tell whats you or not you..regards learning its done by spending hours and hours in a circle telling what you see and seeing if it has any relevance at all.
I'll give an example of how its supposed to work and its not cold reading..although some people try to fake it because they have either tried an failed or for money etc.
This is what happens..you relax and look into the darkness in your mind<<this is the hard part because pictures are always popping in and out and its from yourself...with some long hard meditation, you can tell some pictures in your head look different (like a negative from an old camera) these pictures seem to glow a bit like night glow paint. And you can zoom in or out and get detail.
You say what you see and don't complete the whole picture..ie if you can see a scare or tattoo etc if someone then says they see the same thing and also tell you about the tattoo then this can be taken as evidence that what you see is not from you. (This is development not a science lesson)
It takes years of hard work and can make you ill if you are weak minded<<<why you ask because when you see the pictures your muscles distort giving the feeling of arthritis or other problems..HAHA yes its not funny..You need to have healers around you to protect you and people that are very stable..and they don't take fools gladly.
You can try and get something for months ...if "They don't want to talk you don't get anything"..I am told HAHA that if they think you can't handle it they won't contact you..if you are weak then you can be attacked by etc etc...
The idea seems to be if you see them, they see you..I don't have a clue if this is correct..However I woulden't take the chance..
And I have said before I'm not religious..This has nothing to do with cold reading. (I don't do anything now).
So looking at how hard it is to control in your own mind....I'm not surprised they can't prove anything...This isn't Oh i'll have a guess ..your sister is mazie oh sorry paula...
Regards
M. Gregg
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