Hanzwillem said:
Hi Hanz,
The problem doesn´t occur with "air core" chokes as they
have no core which gets saturated by fields with constant
direction vector (-> DC current)
advantage:
You only have to take into calculation the DC-resistance of
the copperwire creating heat.
disadvantage:
much smaller inductance, higher resistance, size.
Uli
megajocke said:
Unfortunately this is not quite correct, at least for inductors
whiche use a core other than air.
The inductance goes down drastically if you saturate the core.
Example:
Toroid core, 10mH.
without core, same size 0.1mH.
So, if you saturate the core by applying heavy DC-current the
ability of the core to multiply the inductance is lost!
-> your choke has suddenly not 10mH but 0.1mH and gets hot.
-> WASTED MONEY
Uli
PS: Example numbers are not real life numbers!
Okay I exchange the torobar with tritecs.
I only wonder if the larger ones (3.51 mm2, 0.24 ohm, 24 euro) are much better than the medium size (1.9 mm2, 0.39 ohm, 34 euro). Both 2.2 mH.
Are they worth the extra cost.
Size doesnt matter anymore, because now I have to redesign my chassis anyway
I only wonder if the larger ones (3.51 mm2, 0.24 ohm, 24 euro) are much better than the medium size (1.9 mm2, 0.39 ohm, 34 euro). Both 2.2 mH.
Are they worth the extra cost.
Size doesnt matter anymore, because now I have to redesign my chassis anyway
Duck, can't you use a standard air-core inducter with the desired wire? I think it's a waste of money to use special filter components. And have you looked at the chokes of http://www.ae-europe.nl/ can't they make a appropriate choke?
Hi Taco,Taco said:
A standard aircore inductor of this size and low DCR is also expensive. E.g a standard 2 mm2 aircore of 2.2 mH will cost me also 24 euro (and it has a DCR of 0.3 a little better than the 1.9 mm tritec, but its rather large)
I don't know if the "trafblik smoorspoelen" are suitable. Here I read something about 10 mH and 200 mA?? I'm afraid they are not very cheap either.
size
Of course they work, but you should measure
their HF-damping abilities and then recalculate the inductance.
In circuit you wont see a problem as you dont see the actual
inductance under heavy load!
BTW everybody can use what he is happy to use, if it makes
sense in a financial or technical way is another question!
I would be careful in using techniques for which I dont know
the basic principles as amateur.
Uli
PS: normally the classic (right on the pic) chokes have not
a closed loop core but they leave out e.g. the I in an EI core!
Solution is easy: partly unwind a toroid, cut a gap in the core
with a sharp saw, put some paper in the gap, rewind!
PPS: In my youth I worked in an R&D department designing
switch mode PSUs. The main problem was to design the
chokes and transformers with calculating the width of the gap
influencing the rate of inductance loss.
Of course they work, but you should measure
their HF-damping abilities and then recalculate the inductance.
In circuit you wont see a problem as you dont see the actual
inductance under heavy load!
BTW everybody can use what he is happy to use, if it makes
sense in a financial or technical way is another question!
I would be careful in using techniques for which I dont know
the basic principles as amateur.
Uli
PS: normally the classic (right on the pic) chokes have not
a closed loop core but they leave out e.g. the I in an EI core!
Solution is easy: partly unwind a toroid, cut a gap in the core
with a sharp saw, put some paper in the gap, rewind!
PPS: In my youth I worked in an R&D department designing
switch mode PSUs. The main problem was to design the
chokes and transformers with calculating the width of the gap
influencing the rate of inductance loss.
I agree it would be interesting for future diy-ers to find out what amount of DC current the torobar van cope with.
However I just ordered the 3.51 mm2 tritecs. Making something myself was not and option anymore, since I already had ordered and payed for the torobars. Anyway the tritecs look quite cool too.
(btw anyone interested in the 2.2 mH torobars, my diy components shop will have some in stock soon )
My future Aleph5 just got 2 kilos heavier
Thanks 4 all the advice!
However I just ordered the 3.51 mm2 tritecs. Making something myself was not and option anymore, since I already had ordered and payed for the torobars. Anyway the tritecs look quite cool too.
(btw anyone interested in the 2.2 mH torobars, my diy components shop will have some in stock soon
)My future Aleph5 just got 2 kilos heavier
Thanks 4 all the advice!
So I guess nobody is interested or knows anything about audible differences between choke reg supplies and normal non-reg supplies. Once again the discussion has centered on technical issues.Seeing the huge cost involved in buying good air -gapped cores I thought that a lot of people would be interested in knowing if they are getting any worthwhile improvements in terms of musical enjoyment.
quality
I believe that only the sum of possible tweakings lead to audible
improvement. In A/B comparison you might hear the difference
but the cost/improvement relationship is not as bright as
tweaking e.g. the cables running from amp to speaker.
Privately I also believe that concerning PSU caps the discussion
leads in the wrong way - using megatons of Farads leads just
to problems with the rectifier. Using good quality caps with
adequate bypassing and proper layout of the internal wiring
leads to better results than putting in more than adequate
capacity.
Uli
I believe that only the sum of possible tweakings lead to audible
improvement. In A/B comparison you might hear the difference
but the cost/improvement relationship is not as bright as
tweaking e.g. the cables running from amp to speaker.
Privately I also believe that concerning PSU caps the discussion
leads in the wrong way - using megatons of Farads leads just
to problems with the rectifier. Using good quality caps with
adequate bypassing and proper layout of the internal wiring
leads to better results than putting in more than adequate
capacity.
Uli
Pi-filter Sound Improvement
Hi,
I posted some time ago:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1429&highlight=pifilter
As the pi-filters improved the sound I keep them in.
I don'tknow about the airgap of thse coils as these are on a cylindrical ferrite core. Please note that my Ampzilla is not a class A amp but AB. I tested at full power into a resistive load and nothing went wrong.
protos said:
Hi,
I posted some time ago:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1429&highlight=pifilter
As the pi-filters improved the sound I keep them in.
I don'tknow about the airgap of thse coils as these are on a cylindrical ferrite core. Please note that my Ampzilla is not a class A amp but AB. I tested at full power into a resistive load and nothing went wrong.
Well, I'm interested.
I have had the opportunity now to evaluate exactly the same circuit (proto XA, AKA Aleph X) with CLC, CRC, and active (capacitor multiplier) filtering and I have the following observations:
First and foremost, when there is adequate capacitance across the supply at the circuit after the series pass element, there is little or no difference sonically. By adequate, I mean like 25,000 uF per rail. Or more.
As you get to smaller capacitance, you start to hear differences, and flaws begin emerging for all three techniques; mostly compression type artifacts and loss of openness. I attribute all to the increase of supply impedance.
This effect is more pronounced with non-balanced and class AB amplifiers, as balanced Class A output stages will draw constant current over the output wave cycle, and this renders the supply losses more constant, in addition to giving them a common mode character which can be rejected.
In any case, the conclusion is the same - lots of supply capacitance after the filter, and Bob's your uncle.
I have had the opportunity now to evaluate exactly the same circuit (proto XA, AKA Aleph X) with CLC, CRC, and active (capacitor multiplier) filtering and I have the following observations:
First and foremost, when there is adequate capacitance across the supply at the circuit after the series pass element, there is little or no difference sonically. By adequate, I mean like 25,000 uF per rail. Or more.
As you get to smaller capacitance, you start to hear differences, and flaws begin emerging for all three techniques; mostly compression type artifacts and loss of openness. I attribute all to the increase of supply impedance.
This effect is more pronounced with non-balanced and class AB amplifiers, as balanced Class A output stages will draw constant current over the output wave cycle, and this renders the supply losses more constant, in addition to giving them a common mode character which can be rejected.
In any case, the conclusion is the same - lots of supply capacitance after the filter, and Bob's your uncle.
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