Blast! said:
Yes, with the crossover as published, the ProAC clone is a little too sibilant and bright. Al.M hit the nail on the head. You need to 1) try a higher resistor. 2) let them run in.
I found that in my room, at first it took about an 8 ohm tweeter resistor to tame the tweeter level down to a reasonable level. After a few weeks, I lowered it down to about 7.2 ohms. Either I got used to the sound, or the speakers tamed down after being used for some time. I have a feeling that in larger rooms, the tweeter output will seem higher, since the bass output will be effectively lowered. (maybe my theory is wrong. I'm just guessing)
A trick that worked well for me: I installed the "default" 5 ohm resistor in the tweeter xover circuit and installed the xover inside the cabinet... But then, I installed two sets of binding posts on the rear of the speaker (for future bi-amping), and then placed an additional 3 ohm resistor between the two positive binding posts and wired my amp leads to the woofer driver. This effectively makes an 8 ohm resistor on the tweeter circuit... It also allows me to adjust the xover without taking it out of the cabinet.
I also find that the higher resistor values make voices sound much more natural and less "recorded". It reduces the noticable sibilance, and reduces any hiss in the recording.
I had a recent experience with Jamo Concert 8 speaker (newer D38?) alongside the 2.5 clones. My room is roughly L shape about 42m2 floor area, but the end I listen is about 4m wide. Its not the best room but the Jamos which are a commercially done speaker were about 2-3 as bright as the 2.5 clones, yet in another larger room they were much less bright. I did not realise how much an effect rooms could have on treble brightness. I assume this is mainly due to reflections off side walls. The Jamo I could definately not stand, although they were very good.
The 8513 tweeter is inherently a bright sounding tweeter and in audio there are brighter sounding speakers than others less brightly designed to suit different tastes. IMO, it is possible to develop a subjective taste for brightness, neutrality, bassiness etc. Is there such a thing as a correct psycho-acoustic speaker balance? The measurement oriented approach seems to say so, but this does not always meet the psycho-acoustics of every person.
Also, try upgrading the tweeter capacitor quality with expensive metal film/foil types as suggested on the site & use spikes under the speakers.
Luv to see a picture of the Yew finished 2.5 clones please.
Al.M
The 8513 tweeter is inherently a bright sounding tweeter and in audio there are brighter sounding speakers than others less brightly designed to suit different tastes. IMO, it is possible to develop a subjective taste for brightness, neutrality, bassiness etc. Is there such a thing as a correct psycho-acoustic speaker balance? The measurement oriented approach seems to say so, but this does not always meet the psycho-acoustics of every person.
Also, try upgrading the tweeter capacitor quality with expensive metal film/foil types as suggested on the site & use spikes under the speakers.
Luv to see a picture of the Yew finished 2.5 clones please.
Al.M
The "bright" sound of the 2.5's - I prefer to call it "forward" - suits me just fine. As has been mentioned, despite its forward nature, it has a very sweet and musical quality to it. What I didn't care for was the sibilance, but that seems to be have been eliminated with the addition of the resistor on the woofer's xover network.
Right now, amplification comes courtesy of a Marantz SR8000 AV Receiver. I work in an audio store, so I have access to gear at attractive prices. Over the next few months I will be auditioning gear for replacement. Right now leaning towards an Anthem setup, but we'll see what happens.
As requested, here are a couple of pics.
Right now, amplification comes courtesy of a Marantz SR8000 AV Receiver. I work in an audio store, so I have access to gear at attractive prices. Over the next few months I will be auditioning gear for replacement. Right now leaning towards an Anthem setup, but we'll see what happens.
As requested, here are a couple of pics.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Disabled Account
Joined 2003
Sorry, I forgot about this thread during my holidays...
The cabinets did turn out wonderful, but I can't take much credit personally. I had a woodworker do the bulk of the work, so I don't know how much information I can pass on.
The veneer was purchased from www.oakwoodveneer.com
My cabinet maker applied the veneer and then I finished it myself.
I applied a MinWax stain and then applied eight coats of their Polyurethane high gloss finish. This was a slow process, with sanding in between each coat. The results speak for themselves however - the speakers look fantastic.
Sorry I can't add anything more useful.
The cabinets did turn out wonderful, but I can't take much credit personally. I had a woodworker do the bulk of the work, so I don't know how much information I can pass on.
The veneer was purchased from www.oakwoodveneer.com
My cabinet maker applied the veneer and then I finished it myself.
I applied a MinWax stain and then applied eight coats of their Polyurethane high gloss finish. This was a slow process, with sanding in between each coat. The results speak for themselves however - the speakers look fantastic.
Sorry I can't add anything more useful.
Hi.
I've been using the troels v3 filters for a long time. For a while ago a guy I know, that runs an audio-company here in norway offered to help me building new filters\alter the v3 filter. After some hours meassuring, listening and soldering, we ended up with this filter (meassured better in an echo-free room, and I like the new sound they got):
(I can't remember wether we inverted the tweeter or not)
Torsa v.0.1:
Edit:
http://home.no.net/torsaa/proac.JPG
I've been using the troels v3 filters for a long time. For a while ago a guy I know, that runs an audio-company here in norway offered to help me building new filters\alter the v3 filter. After some hours meassuring, listening and soldering, we ended up with this filter (meassured better in an echo-free room, and I like the new sound they got):
(I can't remember wether we inverted the tweeter or not)
Torsa v.0.1:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Edit:
http://home.no.net/torsaa/proac.JPG
hello to all.
Somebody could say if this scheme is correct?
my references of the sound are jamo D830 that I have, if this DIY
sounds great serious similar better or..
http://www.geocities.com/diyproac25/
Somebody could say if this scheme is correct?
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
my references of the sound are jamo D830 that I have, if this DIY
sounds great serious similar better or..
http://www.geocities.com/diyproac25/
I listened to that version of the cross-over and found it to be to harsh with wind instruments. I used Troels' cross-over that I found much better. There was still a bit of sibilence with Troels' crossover, but it disappeared after about 500 hours of playing. Here's the link to Troels' papers.
http://home1.stofanet.dk/troels.gravesen/
http://home1.stofanet.dk/troels.gravesen/
Which XO
Which XO to use is a matter of taste and room. I use something between the Jacqus and troels V6. I have foam in my speakers which may account for my prefering a modified Troels XO as V6 sounds too soft for my ears. By trying the different types you will get the one that suits you. As for sound I think it has all been said. They are very very good for the outlay and won't be bettered for the cost of building them.
Which XO to use is a matter of taste and room. I use something between the Jacqus and troels V6. I have foam in my speakers which may account for my prefering a modified Troels XO as V6 sounds too soft for my ears. By trying the different types you will get the one that suits you. As for sound I think it has all been said. They are very very good for the outlay and won't be bettered for the cost of building them.
There are things that I create are not negotiable, like applying
bituminous material inside the box. He is certain that.. or it will be
enough with a good foam of cones? in my country encontre Dynamat and
tapes covers drops that are used in ceilings, by a face it has
bituminous material of 2mm and laminated aluminum.
It will serve??
bituminous material inside the box. He is certain that.. or it will be
enough with a good foam of cones? in my country encontre Dynamat and
tapes covers drops that are used in ceilings, by a face it has
bituminous material of 2mm and laminated aluminum.
It will serve??
, love the solid ports, awesome work.
My ProAc
Hi Guys,
This is my experience with ProAcs.
I have became a ProAc fan in 2003 - when I sat down and listened everything in the shop under 2000 eur range. Nothing came close to ProAc Studio 125 at the time. I also heard D25 and I still remember it well. It had everything I wished for, except the 5000 eur price tag I went home back then with pair of ProAc Studio 125 which I enjoyed ever since, hoping that sometime I will find a way to D25
When I saw clone 2.5 project on the net, I thought that this might be it - D25 for the price of second hand Studio 125. It took me one month to build it (could do only few hours a day), and the result was mixed.
I still have Studio 125 and after burning in Clone, so listening started. I wish I could say that either one is better, but I can't. I did end up listening to clones more, but Studio does seem to have more appealing and open midrange.
I bought all parts from audiocomponents.nl, and their prices seem to be the best I could find in Europe. I am still at V1 crossover and with dumped tweeter and dust cap. Enclosure is dumped with 4mm bitumen felt pads and 3cm Sonofil from Intertecnhik.
I opened my Studio 125 to see what does an original contain inside and I was amazed: cheap electolytics, wire resistors and cored inductors not even winded neatly, all mounted on a PCB behind midbass, connected to drivers with thin no-name wires. No felt dumping, just thin 2cm layer of cheap foam on all but front walls. Pure design at it's best.
z.
Hi Guys,
This is my experience with ProAcs.
I have became a ProAc fan in 2003 - when I sat down and listened everything in the shop under 2000 eur range. Nothing came close to ProAc Studio 125 at the time. I also heard D25 and I still remember it well. It had everything I wished for, except the 5000 eur price tag
I went home back then with pair of ProAc Studio 125 which I enjoyed ever since, hoping that sometime I will find a way to D25When I saw clone 2.5 project on the net, I thought that this might be it - D25 for the price of second hand Studio 125. It took me one month to build it (could do only few hours a day), and the result was mixed.
I still have Studio 125 and after burning in Clone, so listening started. I wish I could say that either one is better, but I can't. I did end up listening to clones more, but Studio does seem to have more appealing and open midrange.
I bought all parts from audiocomponents.nl, and their prices seem to be the best I could find in Europe. I am still at V1 crossover and with dumped tweeter and dust cap. Enclosure is dumped with 4mm bitumen felt pads and 3cm Sonofil from Intertecnhik.
I opened my Studio 125 to see what does an original contain inside and I was amazed: cheap electolytics, wire resistors and cored inductors not even winded neatly, all mounted on a PCB behind midbass, connected to drivers with thin no-name wires. No felt dumping, just thin 2cm layer of cheap foam on all but front walls. Pure design at it's best.
z.
ZDR
I found the same with my R 1Scs. This made me think the clone wasn't that criticle. If you take care you can make it sound better I think. I use more or less the XO from the Geosite web pages by AI. with a bit of modification of v6. Cabinets damped with a few lead sheets and acoustic foam. Sounds perfect to my ears although might try the 9500 tweeter soon. It is important to let the drivers burn in for at least 200 hours the difference in sound is quite major to my ears.
I found the same with my R 1Scs. This made me think the clone wasn't that criticle. If you take care you can make it sound better I think. I use more or less the XO from the Geosite web pages by AI. with a bit of modification of v6. Cabinets damped with a few lead sheets and acoustic foam. Sounds perfect to my ears although might try the 9500 tweeter soon. It is important to let the drivers burn in for at least 200 hours the difference in sound is quite major to my ears.
Cortes para los drivers
refuerzo interno
Damping interno
Tweeter Scan Speak 2010
woofer Scan Speak 8535
Terminales
it finishes them!
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
refuerzo interno
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Damping interno
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Tweeter Scan Speak 2010
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
woofer Scan Speak 8535
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Terminales
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
it finishes them!
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.