Sometimes, not always. I've recounted a few times the experience I had replacing the electrolytic in my Magneplanars with a polyprop and the sad result. The Magneplanar designers knew what they were doing and weren't trying to save 50 cents. Ditto the NHT 3.3s I have (well, they're not quite 3.3s anymore...); the ESR of the electrolytics is built into the crossover design and replacing them with something having negligible ESR will upset the frequency response and remarkably flat impedance curve. Not by a lot, but by a likely audible amount, and (again) since the designers knew what they were doing and were not trying to cut corners in an expensive design, it will not be in a good direction unless the ESR is accounted for.
Engineers aren't always in charge of those decisions and some designers don't know any better anyway. I've seen the insides of some NHT, they definitely cut corners when and where they could.
Pictures of two different crossovers. The very sloppy one is from a large very well known company.
Attachments
I'm sorry, I seriously doubt that parts selection corners were cut in NHT's $4000 speakers. And where good speaker companies DO cut costs, the engineers are smart enough to optimize the designs for the parts they're going to use- that's why those are good speaker companies! Simple one for one parts replacements might make you feel good and make you feel like you're improving the designs without having to go through the hard work of getting a design optimized within constraints, but that's often not the case. And in the case of solid, smart engineering like at NHT of yore, it's almost certainly not the case.
A crossover can be designed by a clever and thorough engineer or by a hack. In either case, the layout can look "sloppy" or have beautiful eye appeal. The bottom line is, how does it perform as part of a system design? Photos of eye candy don't reveal the answer.
A crossover can be designed by a clever and thorough engineer or by a hack. In either case, the layout can look "sloppy" or have beautiful eye appeal. The bottom line is, how does it perform as part of a system design? Photos of eye candy don't reveal the answer.
I question the wisdom of using a component with electrolytic paste that knowingly degrades over time, raising ESR with age in a design where they targeted a specific ESR?
Why not use a low cost film cap with essentially permanent ESR along with a low cost, low ohm resistor in series to get a planned ESR and, at the same time, prevent the ageing phenomenon from happening?
Why not use a low cost film cap with essentially permanent ESR along with a low cost, low ohm resistor in series to get a planned ESR and, at the same time, prevent the ageing phenomenon from happening?
Others have written that in other forums also. Interesting.
WT3 seems a clever marketing name for a seemingly inferior product. Perhaps buyers think they're getting an improved version over the WT2 which is in no way connected to the WT3.
BTW, be on the lookout next month for the May issue of AudioXpress. There will an interesting article in there about using the WT2 to measure capacitors.
Last edited:
As a non-manufacturer, that's exactly what I would do and what I recommended several posts back. Experienced production companies with good supplier relationships have more choices, knowing the performance/reliability track record of components over the expected product lifetime and the effects of likely drifts on transfer functions.
The NHT 3.3 was certainly a venerable loudspeaker. I'm sure you realize that about half the suggested retail price is markup/profit to the dealer.
Here is a partial quote from STEREOPHILE magazine
"Crossover components are chosen for their specific functions in the circuit, not on the supposed superiority of a particular "type" of capacitor or coil. Kantor believes in using the best parts where they count—eg, premium capacitors in the series feed to the tweeter—and in keeping costs down by using less expensive parts where they are unlikely to have any sonic impact."
One can purchase many of the same actual drivers used in various NHT models. All of them genuine, all of them factory overstock. Jack Hidley, an actual NHT fellow has a for sale site. I can drive there, it is only about two hours from me.
NHT drivers and electronics surplus sale
Most of the drivers are run of the mill with stamped frames, nothing exceptional. Various offerings made by Peerless or Foster. I actually have some 8" NHT surplus in my garage (and some Klipsch stuff too) Not bad components, not top shelf either. There are a few standouts, you just have to love that NHT 1259 woofer.
Anyway one could probably clone their own 3.3 for maybe $1000 give or take a few hundred. I'm not dissing NHT, just stating fact. I'm actually thinking of getting a bunch more of their drivers, I'm on a budget.
Attachments
Last edited:
One of the reasons I used NHT as an example is because I own their speakers, know Jack well, spent a lot of time hanging out there when I lived in Benicia, and have their blueprints and specs for the crossover components- including the caps. I've got literally hundreds of their drivers.
The 3.3 stock is a standout, showing what a first-rate designer can do when he considers system design instead of having an irrational attachment to the idea of what are "good" and "bad" components as dictated by fashion rather than solid, informed design.
The 3.3 stock is a standout, showing what a first-rate designer can do when he considers system design instead of having an irrational attachment to the idea of what are "good" and "bad" components as dictated by fashion rather than solid, informed design.
Oh yes, I just visited the SYclotron Audio website and read up on your 3.3 modifications. So how come you have so many drivers? Are you selling them or manufacturing your own finished loudspeakers?
My point was, you never know what's inside until you look and maybe you just don't want to know, because sometimes the innards are so cheap, unbelievably cheap.
I have a couple of projects in various states of completion using them. Lots of spares for my 3.3s. Enough Super Zero woofers/midranges to build some line arrays. Drivers from their high end DSP speakers. And every once in a while, Jack would call and tell me his storage facility was too full and would I please come by and take some off his hands. 
No, nothing commercial at all. Audio is strictly fun for me- I get paid for an article now and then, but as a business, well, I prefer what I'm doing.
No, nothing commercial at all. Audio is strictly fun for me- I get paid for an article now and then, but as a business, well, I prefer what I'm doing.
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.