Hey
The following you can get here
2N2218A mouser part number 610-2N2218A (Mouser Electronics - Electronic Components Distributor)
2N2904A mouser part number 610-2N2904A
LM709 OP AMp equivalent =LM301 8 pin (do you have 8 pin or 14 pin opamp on your board?)
Bridge Rectifier mouser part number 625-2W08G-E4
The other caps you cant find are under the black bakelite type cover
Check this thread out as well
Audio Asylum Thread Printer
The opanp you have (the one that looks like an integrated circuit will either be 4 pins either side or7 pins either side the 4 pin either side one will fit asthe other pins are actually not connected to anything on board.
Just swap out the lot dont mess with the film caps just change the electrolytic caps and the above things
then recalibrate
Good luck
The following you can get here
2N2218A mouser part number 610-2N2218A (Mouser Electronics - Electronic Components Distributor)
2N2904A mouser part number 610-2N2904A
LM709 OP AMp equivalent =LM301 8 pin (do you have 8 pin or 14 pin opamp on your board?)
Bridge Rectifier mouser part number 625-2W08G-E4
The other caps you cant find are under the black bakelite type cover
Check this thread out as well
Audio Asylum Thread Printer
The opanp you have (the one that looks like an integrated circuit will either be 4 pins either side or7 pins either side the 4 pin either side one will fit asthe other pins are actually not connected to anything on board.
Just swap out the lot dont mess with the film caps just change the electrolytic caps and the above things
then recalibrate
Good luck
Hi duderdudereni,
The info you provided on those part numbers is very useful. It is exactly what I was looking for. Thank you so much.
My opAmp is 8 pin. But it is not in any socket. It is soldered to the board. Should I get a socket for it when I order the replacement?
I'll order these replacements and once I change them I will let this forum know where I stand. Hopefully I'll have a running deck by then.
Thank you all.
P.S. One thing I wanted to add just for the record in case there are other people who will read this thread to gather information. The lamp on the circuit board is not a neon lamp and I don't think a neon lamp would work. It has to be incandescent. At least, that's my understanding. I mention this because you had earlier referred to it as a neon light.
The info you provided on those part numbers is very useful. It is exactly what I was looking for. Thank you so much.
My opAmp is 8 pin. But it is not in any socket. It is soldered to the board. Should I get a socket for it when I order the replacement?
I'll order these replacements and once I change them I will let this forum know where I stand. Hopefully I'll have a running deck by then.
Thank you all.
P.S. One thing I wanted to add just for the record in case there are other people who will read this thread to gather information. The lamp on the circuit board is not a neon lamp and I don't think a neon lamp would work. It has to be incandescent. At least, that's my understanding. I mention this because you had earlier referred to it as a neon light.
Incandescent it is then
Hey
You are no doubt correct as I just call it that perhaps due to its dull glow. If aanyone knows where to get these then let me know.
With regards the opamp, yes place in a socket first then the opamp. If you can swap out a capacitor you can do any of these things. Just remember to check and double check the transistor numbers, Take a photo of the board before you dismantle it, mark the board with a marker pen, just follow a methodical routine.
These are great decks and worth all the efforts. There is an article in HiFi world on tweaking them .. I shall see if i can dig it out.
Good luck
Nick
Hey
You are no doubt correct as I just call it that perhaps due to its dull glow. If aanyone knows where to get these then let me know.
With regards the opamp, yes place in a socket first then the opamp. If you can swap out a capacitor you can do any of these things. Just remember to check and double check the transistor numbers, Take a photo of the board before you dismantle it, mark the board with a marker pen, just follow a methodical routine.
These are great decks and worth all the efforts. There is an article in HiFi world on tweaking them .. I shall see if i can dig it out.
Good luck
Nick
Use some desoldering wick if you dont already
Hey
Oh one other thing I use desolder wick to remove solder The stuff i can get here is called "GOOTWIck" 3mm wide which is rosin coated.. i find it much better than desoldering pumps
577-1812-5F that is a mouser part number for a rosin coated desoldering braid. If you dont know how to use it just place it over the solder you want to remove then place your tinned iron over the braid.. great stuff.
The tweaking article is is the december 2005 issue of HiFi World
Hey
Oh one other thing I use desolder wick to remove solder The stuff i can get here is called "GOOTWIck" 3mm wide which is rosin coated.. i find it much better than desoldering pumps
577-1812-5F that is a mouser part number for a rosin coated desoldering braid. If you dont know how to use it just place it over the solder you want to remove then place your tinned iron over the braid.. great stuff.
The tweaking article is is the december 2005 issue of HiFi World
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I will do. It will take me a week to a month. That bridge rectifier on mouser is catalog number 625-2W08G-E4. Please look at it and tell me if it is the correct one. It says 800 Volts and 2 Amp. It sounds a little suspicious to me. Also, would you check 863-LM301ADG for the op amp. They have different models and this is the one I picked. And I can't find a socket for it. What comes up says it has six weeks factory delivery time. Are these easy to find?
As for the lamp, I think I said, look at EIKO lamps. Google either EIKO 7381 or EIKO 6022. One is on a socket with two pins and the other is with two wires. Both are within specs. One is exactly on the spec. 5v and .2 amp. Many places sell them as these are used in automobiles.
Thanks again.
As for the lamp, I think I said, look at EIKO lamps. Google either EIKO 7381 or EIKO 6022. One is on a socket with two pins and the other is with two wires. Both are within specs. One is exactly on the spec. 5v and .2 amp. Many places sell them as these are used in automobiles.
Thanks again.
For 'mains' synchronised strobes, it's not possible to cut the right marks for ALL of the used speeds (16-2/3) , (33-1/3) , (45) , (78). 50Hz and 60Hz can produce an exact result for (16-2/3) and (33-1/3), only 60Hz gives an exact result for (45) and neither gives an exact result for 78 (although 60Hz is closer).
drc
PS:
I suppose they could cut a spiral track but I have never seen one !
drc
PS:
I suppose they could cut a spiral track but I have never seen one !
Duderduderini,
Thank you so much for you offer of sending me your opAmp and the sockets. If I'm right, you'll be sending them all the way from Australia!!! It's very nice of you but let me first receive my order from mouser and change the rest of the stuff and see if opAmp is bad and if so see if I can find the right socket for it here in the US. There are many sockets for eight pin IC but I need to measure such things as the pitch and width and distance from pin to pin, etc. to order the right one. I've seen some on Digikey but I need these specifications. So if all fails, I will PM you for your offer. And in return let me offer you if you need something like that light you've spoken of let me know and I'll send you a couple. Thanks
Thank you so much for you offer of sending me your opAmp and the sockets. If I'm right, you'll be sending them all the way from Australia!!! It's very nice of you but let me first receive my order from mouser and change the rest of the stuff and see if opAmp is bad and if so see if I can find the right socket for it here in the US. There are many sockets for eight pin IC but I need to measure such things as the pitch and width and distance from pin to pin, etc. to order the right one. I've seen some on Digikey but I need these specifications. So if all fails, I will PM you for your offer. And in return let me offer you if you need something like that light you've spoken of let me know and I'll send you a couple. Thanks
Well, good news and bad news. I got my motor to run. The two caps c2 and c4 needed replacing. I changed the rectifier bridge too but when I tested it after removal it tested ok. These were all it needed but now I have the other components including opAmps and sockets. However, I won't change anything else for now. First I replaced the cap that looked sick because it had oozed out and discolored then I changed the other cap and the bridge. The funny thing is that when I was desoldering the first cap I noticed that it was put in with the wrong polarity! And what's more, when I removed and looked at the writings on it I saw it said 680 uF, 25V. It is very strange. How did it ever work? I suspect my friend who gave this table to me hasn't told me the whole history or he has forgotten. He says it always worked when he used it but that doesn't match the evidence. Somebody had been on this board before.
That's the good news.
I then, with the help of my 80 year old mother who was holding the probes of the multimeter on point ge, rt and bl, went through voltage adjustments of phase 1 and 2. Those were set accordingly but I couldn't do phase 3 because the strobe light is broken and even with the strobe I would have had a hard time to do it with the deck upright. I think the speeds are ok though, for now.
I put the smaller platter and the belt on and here's the first bad news: the pulley on the motor shaft wobbles. The motor is quiet but there's that wobble. The wobble is significant enough to induce a vibration to the top board when the heavy platter is set on. The vibration is noticeable at the bottom left corner of the top plate. I have minimized the vibration, to the best I've been able to, by adjusting the suspension. I don't know abnormal this is and how to remedy it. I've read that some people have been able to straighten the motor shaft by pushing on it but I'm not going to try that. I need to add that I don't hear any adverse effect on the sound due to this in terms of wow, flutter, etc. but I can't be sure because I don't have any other sample of this deck to compare with.
Proceeding on... I tried to put a cartridge on this. I should say the tonearm is Thorens' own TP16. Among the cartridges I have, the only I could install was a Sonus cartridge because I didn't have any metric screws and using the pair that was on the wand fitted only the Sonus. It's a nice cartridge and certainly sufficient for now. I then did all the usual adjustments for the cartridge based on published information on the cartridge and the tonearm.
I proceeded then to listen to records. I have been doing that all day long. Here comes the second bad news. The tracking is accurate and the sound nice and well defined for the first half of playing the record but then the tracking goes off with lots of distortions and even often times it skips on a track for a few times and then continues or skips again and this is the case for most records. For some records it plays to the end very nicely. If this was a changer, I would guess that it had a problem with its trip mechanism but this doesn't have a trip mechanism. However, I think something is preventing the arm from having a free horizontal free movement as it gets closer to the spindle. I don't see any slackness in the bearings of the arm but I do hear a tiny sound when I move it by hand from rest to the spindle towards the middle. I haven't figured this out.
That's a report of what I've done and where I stand.
If anybody has any experience with these two new problems - the wobbling pulley and an arm that starts to mis-tracks half way on - please tell me.
I thank the member duderduderini for his advice specially for telling me to order that Prowick. For the record, in case others are interested, this thing is amazingly magical. I had used the wick from RadioShack till now. What a difference!!
If I have further success, I'll report. So wish to hear back from me.
To the reader,
That's the good news.
I then, with the help of my 80 year old mother who was holding the probes of the multimeter on point ge, rt and bl, went through voltage adjustments of phase 1 and 2. Those were set accordingly but I couldn't do phase 3 because the strobe light is broken and even with the strobe I would have had a hard time to do it with the deck upright. I think the speeds are ok though, for now.
I put the smaller platter and the belt on and here's the first bad news: the pulley on the motor shaft wobbles. The motor is quiet but there's that wobble. The wobble is significant enough to induce a vibration to the top board when the heavy platter is set on. The vibration is noticeable at the bottom left corner of the top plate. I have minimized the vibration, to the best I've been able to, by adjusting the suspension. I don't know abnormal this is and how to remedy it. I've read that some people have been able to straighten the motor shaft by pushing on it but I'm not going to try that. I need to add that I don't hear any adverse effect on the sound due to this in terms of wow, flutter, etc. but I can't be sure because I don't have any other sample of this deck to compare with.
Proceeding on... I tried to put a cartridge on this. I should say the tonearm is Thorens' own TP16. Among the cartridges I have, the only I could install was a Sonus cartridge because I didn't have any metric screws and using the pair that was on the wand fitted only the Sonus. It's a nice cartridge and certainly sufficient for now. I then did all the usual adjustments for the cartridge based on published information on the cartridge and the tonearm.
I proceeded then to listen to records. I have been doing that all day long. Here comes the second bad news. The tracking is accurate and the sound nice and well defined for the first half of playing the record but then the tracking goes off with lots of distortions and even often times it skips on a track for a few times and then continues or skips again and this is the case for most records. For some records it plays to the end very nicely. If this was a changer, I would guess that it had a problem with its trip mechanism but this doesn't have a trip mechanism. However, I think something is preventing the arm from having a free horizontal free movement as it gets closer to the spindle. I don't see any slackness in the bearings of the arm but I do hear a tiny sound when I move it by hand from rest to the spindle towards the middle. I haven't figured this out.
That's a report of what I've done and where I stand.
If anybody has any experience with these two new problems - the wobbling pulley and an arm that starts to mis-tracks half way on - please tell me.
I thank the member duderduderini for his advice specially for telling me to order that Prowick. For the record, in case others are interested, this thing is amazingly magical. I had used the wick from RadioShack till now. What a difference!!
If I have further success, I'll report. So wish to hear back from me.
To the reader,
that has to be a bent pulley
Hey.
The motor shaft may well be bent rotate it manually to see or else it could be a loose motor mount. The top deck needs o be levelled which is an art in itself although not nearly as hard to do as a linn sondek. If the top (suspended Bit) is not level or out of whack in one corner it may wobble as you describe. Check this link
Suspension
check out that link it shows you how to do a td160 and it shows you a "bounce test".. there is a particular way these decks are meant to recover froma bounce.. its an up down movement that is damped... if it has a sideways component its not setup right.
The second problem is almost certianly the angle of the cartridge. Have you used a 2 point methode of aligning the cartidge body using say one of these? Here is a link to a pdf of the ortofon alignment protractor.. No its not the last word in protractors (there are heaps of them!!) but it will get you up and running.
http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&r...dnl1t6e8fq8pqnA&bvm=bv.60799247,d.dGI&cad=rja. I bet the cartridge has the wrong tracking angle to it. have a look, here is another link
Tonearm_Alignment
Thiscould also beanti skating adjustment or even the tonearm lowering mechanism not bottoming out enough to allow the needle to fully seat. How much tracking force are you running? Have you got a tracking force guage?
Here is an interesting article
http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&r...xR-jlQw1_GZ6BPQ&bvm=bv.60799247,d.dGI&cad=rja
If you havent been to the Vinyl Engine do so you can get all sorts of manuals in their library. Quick and simple to join
Turntable Forum • setting weight and anti-skating on Thorens TP 16 tonearm
The more you have to "fix" on these classic turntables, the more you will understand them and you will be able to set them up quicklythe next time. Dont lose heart
I hope this helps
Nick
Hey I told you the right solder wick "sucks"
Hey.
The motor shaft may well be bent rotate it manually to see or else it could be a loose motor mount. The top deck needs o be levelled which is an art in itself although not nearly as hard to do as a linn sondek. If the top (suspended Bit) is not level or out of whack in one corner it may wobble as you describe. Check this link
Suspension
check out that link it shows you how to do a td160 and it shows you a "bounce test".. there is a particular way these decks are meant to recover froma bounce.. its an up down movement that is damped... if it has a sideways component its not setup right.
The second problem is almost certianly the angle of the cartridge. Have you used a 2 point methode of aligning the cartidge body using say one of these? Here is a link to a pdf of the ortofon alignment protractor.. No its not the last word in protractors (there are heaps of them!!) but it will get you up and running.
http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&r...dnl1t6e8fq8pqnA&bvm=bv.60799247,d.dGI&cad=rja. I bet the cartridge has the wrong tracking angle to it. have a look, here is another link
Tonearm_Alignment
Thiscould also beanti skating adjustment or even the tonearm lowering mechanism not bottoming out enough to allow the needle to fully seat. How much tracking force are you running? Have you got a tracking force guage?
Here is an interesting article
http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&r...xR-jlQw1_GZ6BPQ&bvm=bv.60799247,d.dGI&cad=rja
If you havent been to the Vinyl Engine do so you can get all sorts of manuals in their library. Quick and simple to join
Turntable Forum • setting weight and anti-skating on Thorens TP 16 tonearm
The more you have to "fix" on these classic turntables, the more you will understand them and you will be able to set them up quicklythe next time. Dont lose heart
I hope this helps
Nick
Hey I told you the right solder wick "sucks"
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Some progress if I can call it that. At least it's musical now but with some faults
Duderduderini,
I've tried to do all you've said. Yes, I use a protractor. All I need is the null points for TP16 and I got them from vinylengine,. I use Stevenson's. I use a mirror to make sure the cartridge is level and correct.The deck is level and the suspension is good and bounces just right. I changed the cartridge from Sonus to an unused Ortofon F15E. Sonus has two much compliance and I think it didn't go well with the arm. I have other cartridges but I'm limited by the fact that I have only one pair of M2 screws. Ortofon has a lower hight but fortunately I found in my stuff a bag of Thorens' spacers of .5 to 2.5 mm thickness. I must have acquired it with some other stuff I bought. The Ortofon behaves much better.
On the wobbly pulley: yes, the motor shaft is bent and I'm sure it does something with the sound but I'm surprised I don't notice it. All my other decks are based on idler wheels. With those, the slightest irregularity in the rubber or the pulley will be felt immediately in a drastic way but I guess the ones with the belt are much more forgiving. It must introduces a slightly uneven rotation but I don't hear it. I won't deal with it for now.
And on the problem with the arm: I found the source of it but am not sure how to remedy it. Do you have a TP16? The arm uses three magnets to manage the anti-skating. One magnet is round in the shape of a donut and is housed in the base of the two gimbals. The other two magnets are cylinders, quarter of an inch long and 3/8" in diameter. They are housed each on the two lower tube ears of the outer gimbal. The one on the right is pushed forward by the anti-skating knob and you can actually see it come out of the tube if you turn the anti-skating knob to the maximum. The other magnet sits in the left tube ear of the gimbal just across the other one. These two create a torque on the inner gimbal as the arm traverses the record and that force is the anti-skating. Now, on my arm, one of these magnets, the one to the left, not the one controlled by the anti-skating knob, is loose and since it is a magnet it moves out of the tube and attaches itself to the donut magnet at the base of the two gimbals. I pulled it out of the tube by inserting a hex wrench into the tube and because it's a magnet it just pulled out. But if I put it back in there it again goes and attaches itself to the donut. It probably had a housing that screwed into that tube but I'm not sure. If you have this arm would you look at yours to see if you can figure out how it sits there? You can see the magnet if you look into the tube.
So that's that with the arm. With the magnet now out I no longer have those random skip and go issues. It is just that my anti-skating is crippled. I have compensated for it by bringing the other magnet very close to the gimbals, that is, by setting the anti-skating very high. The idea is that if in a torque the force on one side is weak then increase the other force. I don't have one of those test records to tell me the optimum set up and I do adjust it by ear and using some of my records that I know are difficult to track. I always do it that way but always on a system that has a functioning anti-skating.
So, now with all these adjustments and the removal of the loose magnet and bringing the other magnet closer to compensate I have some music. What suffers the most, because of the crippled anti-skating, are the highs.
If you have any thoughts, or if anybody has who has this arm, I'd appreciate hearing it. That magnet should sit securely in that tube but I don't know how or how it got broken.
Thanks again. And I'll report if something new comes up.
Best to all.
Duderduderini,
I've tried to do all you've said. Yes, I use a protractor. All I need is the null points for TP16 and I got them from vinylengine,. I use Stevenson's. I use a mirror to make sure the cartridge is level and correct.The deck is level and the suspension is good and bounces just right. I changed the cartridge from Sonus to an unused Ortofon F15E. Sonus has two much compliance and I think it didn't go well with the arm. I have other cartridges but I'm limited by the fact that I have only one pair of M2 screws. Ortofon has a lower hight but fortunately I found in my stuff a bag of Thorens' spacers of .5 to 2.5 mm thickness. I must have acquired it with some other stuff I bought. The Ortofon behaves much better.
On the wobbly pulley: yes, the motor shaft is bent and I'm sure it does something with the sound but I'm surprised I don't notice it. All my other decks are based on idler wheels. With those, the slightest irregularity in the rubber or the pulley will be felt immediately in a drastic way but I guess the ones with the belt are much more forgiving. It must introduces a slightly uneven rotation but I don't hear it. I won't deal with it for now.
And on the problem with the arm: I found the source of it but am not sure how to remedy it. Do you have a TP16? The arm uses three magnets to manage the anti-skating. One magnet is round in the shape of a donut and is housed in the base of the two gimbals. The other two magnets are cylinders, quarter of an inch long and 3/8" in diameter. They are housed each on the two lower tube ears of the outer gimbal. The one on the right is pushed forward by the anti-skating knob and you can actually see it come out of the tube if you turn the anti-skating knob to the maximum. The other magnet sits in the left tube ear of the gimbal just across the other one. These two create a torque on the inner gimbal as the arm traverses the record and that force is the anti-skating. Now, on my arm, one of these magnets, the one to the left, not the one controlled by the anti-skating knob, is loose and since it is a magnet it moves out of the tube and attaches itself to the donut magnet at the base of the two gimbals. I pulled it out of the tube by inserting a hex wrench into the tube and because it's a magnet it just pulled out. But if I put it back in there it again goes and attaches itself to the donut. It probably had a housing that screwed into that tube but I'm not sure. If you have this arm would you look at yours to see if you can figure out how it sits there? You can see the magnet if you look into the tube.
So that's that with the arm. With the magnet now out I no longer have those random skip and go issues. It is just that my anti-skating is crippled. I have compensated for it by bringing the other magnet very close to the gimbals, that is, by setting the anti-skating very high. The idea is that if in a torque the force on one side is weak then increase the other force. I don't have one of those test records to tell me the optimum set up and I do adjust it by ear and using some of my records that I know are difficult to track. I always do it that way but always on a system that has a functioning anti-skating.
So, now with all these adjustments and the removal of the loose magnet and bringing the other magnet closer to compensate I have some music. What suffers the most, because of the crippled anti-skating, are the highs.
If you have any thoughts, or if anybody has who has this arm, I'd appreciate hearing it. That magnet should sit securely in that tube but I don't know how or how it got broken.
Thanks again. And I'll report if something new comes up.
Best to all.
Old thread, I know, but it still serves as reference to many TD-125 Mk-II owners, so here we go:
Nope: The lamp specs are NOT 0.2A it's 0.02A or 20mA. That's 6V/20mA and them buggers are hard to find if you give up the T1 1/2 wedge base lamps and buy a new holder. Please lemme know if anyone finds a replacement lamp.
Thanks
Tom
FWIW: TD-125 Mk-II µA709C (14 pin op-amp) swap to LM741CN (8 pin op-amp) and removal of redundant RC networks:
anything in red goes out - green goes in:
and if you ever need new trimmers, Piher has got them:
...and this is just to help you adjust voltages using those trimmers as per the service manual:
anything in red goes out - green goes in:
and if you ever need new trimmers, Piher has got them:
...and this is just to help you adjust voltages using those trimmers as per the service manual:
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