Hi bpilgrim99, You're welcome. Here's another update and aditional information:
The Gatorfoam was purchased in BLACK. It's available in black, white and ''natural'' facers. I guess ''natural'' would look like MDF ?
Yes , they ARE big panels
. The photo was taken as a comparison to the two way horn system with Altec style (can't remember the model number) horn bass bin and round AZZURA horn flairs (24 inch diameter), coupled to MASSIVE(8 inch diameter) SELENIUM 4 inch titanium compression drivers. It's a two way system with a simple 6db per octave crossover with quality components, crossed over at 800hz.
Regretfully, and this is difficult for me to admit, the panels with only one exciter running on each side has more realism, coherence and superb imaging. I am truly SHOCKED that this is the case because the Azzura horns are very open and non-horn like sounding.They are of course more efficient, but here's the weird thing - The NXT panels of this size have ended up being surprisingly loud in comparison to their rated sensitivity compared to the 100db sensitivity of the horns. In other words the db reading on my amplifier does nor correlate with the perceived loudness of the panels. This confirms NXT''s information on their publications and white papers on the technology.
The horns now don't seem to sound right - I notice that the 15 inch woofer cabinet is droning along and interfering with the music instead of filling in the bottom end gap as they're supposed to.
The ''Monolith's'' - at first impressions ? : realistic highs, incredible detail in the mids, amazingly fast transients, and the bass notes? : only come in when there is bass , and brother, when they do, it's like they're coming from deep down like a hole right through to China !!!. They have superb coherence and piano music/classical/jazz and guitar music is stunning.
Negatives?.....yes,........I should have made these a long time ago!!!. Seriously though, the Gatorfoam must be held at the corners and sides as I notice a slight ''board'' like coloration occasionally. This stops when you grab hold of the panel by the edges firmly. This is where the ''tuning'' will start once the panels are mounted and suspended in their wooden frames.
Another problem - how to wire the 6 exciters to obtain MAXIMUM efficiency? Have looked at various internet articles and have realised that series connection and paralell connection have different gains in db and a combination of both is different again.
Can anyone help on this one as I am not sure of the correct wiring configuration
bpilgrim99, NXT have informed me of two important factors regarding panel material choice:
1. Lighter the panel : THE LOUDER THE SOUND
2. Stiffer the panel : MORE HIGH FREQUENCIES GET THROUGH
You will probably find that your plywood panel is way too heavy for any reasonable loudness. But, it's great to hear that that you agree with your observation on crisp highs and bass extension
Keep us informed of your experimentation.
The Gatorfoam was purchased in BLACK. It's available in black, white and ''natural'' facers. I guess ''natural'' would look like MDF ?
Yes , they ARE big panels
. The photo was taken as a comparison to the two way horn system with Altec style (can't remember the model number) horn bass bin and round AZZURA horn flairs (24 inch diameter), coupled to MASSIVE(8 inch diameter) SELENIUM 4 inch titanium compression drivers. It's a two way system with a simple 6db per octave crossover with quality components, crossed over at 800hz.Regretfully, and this is difficult for me to admit, the panels with only one exciter running on each side has more realism, coherence and superb imaging. I am truly SHOCKED that this is the case because the Azzura horns are very open and non-horn like sounding.They are of course more efficient, but here's the weird thing - The NXT panels of this size have ended up being surprisingly loud in comparison to their rated sensitivity compared to the 100db sensitivity of the horns. In other words the db reading on my amplifier does nor correlate with the perceived loudness of the panels. This confirms NXT''s information on their publications and white papers on the technology.
The horns now don't seem to sound right - I notice that the 15 inch woofer cabinet is droning along and interfering with the music instead of filling in the bottom end gap as they're supposed to.
The ''Monolith's'' - at first impressions ? : realistic highs, incredible detail in the mids, amazingly fast transients, and the bass notes? : only come in when there is bass , and brother, when they do, it's like they're coming from deep down like a hole right through to China !!!. They have superb coherence and piano music/classical/jazz and guitar music is stunning.
Negatives?.....yes,........I should have made these a long time ago!!!. Seriously though, the Gatorfoam must be held at the corners and sides as I notice a slight ''board'' like coloration occasionally. This stops when you grab hold of the panel by the edges firmly. This is where the ''tuning'' will start once the panels are mounted and suspended in their wooden frames.
Another problem - how to wire the 6 exciters to obtain MAXIMUM efficiency? Have looked at various internet articles and have realised that series connection and paralell connection have different gains in db and a combination of both is different again.
Can anyone help on this one as I am not sure of the correct wiring configuration
bpilgrim99, NXT have informed me of two important factors regarding panel material choice:
1. Lighter the panel : THE LOUDER THE SOUND
2. Stiffer the panel : MORE HIGH FREQUENCIES GET THROUGH
You will probably find that your plywood panel is way too heavy for any reasonable loudness. But, it's great to hear that that you agree with your observation on crisp highs and bass extension
Keep us informed of your experimentation.
Hi human.bin.
I have no sound pads remaining so I can not take any further photos(sorry). All exciters have been removed including the two that are on the large panels at the moment.
Here is a simple step by step process to follow:
1. cut the three plastic ''arms'' near the main body of unit. Then lift them and remove from cardboard disk.
2. Cut or tear the cardboard disk from outside going inwards to the ''foot''. Do this in 2-3 places and tear away as much of the cardboard from the foot as possible (be gentle and careful!).
3. you will now have to peel off, bit by bit, the remaining cardboard and sticky, clear ring from the foot of the exciter(slowly with your fingernail - be careful once again)
4. cut casing near terminals (vertical cut) bot sides and bend outwards slightly - see second photo - '' ready to remove from casing''
5. cut wires leading to positive and negative terminals. The exciter is now ready to be removed.
6. use a small flat head screwdriver and place between casing and exciter magnet . Lever up the screwdriver so that exciter begins to separate from casing. The exciter is held to the casing with three small double sided foam ''dots'' underneath.
7. Once the exciter has lifted up enough, you can grab the edge and tear the rest of the dots away from the casing. Then, peel the three dots away from the casing and the exciter is ready.
Don't forget that the small PTC resistor is connected to the positive end of the exciter and must remain if you are only going to use one driver per panel.
Hope this helps.
I have no sound pads remaining so I can not take any further photos(sorry). All exciters have been removed including the two that are on the large panels at the moment.
Here is a simple step by step process to follow:
1. cut the three plastic ''arms'' near the main body of unit. Then lift them and remove from cardboard disk.
2. Cut or tear the cardboard disk from outside going inwards to the ''foot''. Do this in 2-3 places and tear away as much of the cardboard from the foot as possible (be gentle and careful!).
3. you will now have to peel off, bit by bit, the remaining cardboard and sticky, clear ring from the foot of the exciter(slowly with your fingernail - be careful once again)
4. cut casing near terminals (vertical cut) bot sides and bend outwards slightly - see second photo - '' ready to remove from casing''
5. cut wires leading to positive and negative terminals. The exciter is now ready to be removed.
6. use a small flat head screwdriver and place between casing and exciter magnet . Lever up the screwdriver so that exciter begins to separate from casing. The exciter is held to the casing with three small double sided foam ''dots'' underneath.
7. Once the exciter has lifted up enough, you can grab the edge and tear the rest of the dots away from the casing. Then, peel the three dots away from the casing and the exciter is ready.
Don't forget that the small PTC resistor is connected to the positive end of the exciter and must remain if you are only going to use one driver per panel.
Hope this helps.
How to attach them : use CLEAR TYPE DOUBLE SIDED TAPE - RUBBER BASED. Some tapes are plastic based and do not work as well. Look for 3M/SCOTCH brand products.
DO NOT USE ''FOAM DOUBLE SIDED TAPE''.
For a permanent stick on, use SUPER GLUE.
Balsa wood will be interesting. You could glue pieces side by side to get width, then glue another layer underneath (going horizontal) for added strength.
I think you would need a press of some sort to make sure everything ends up being flat?
DO NOT USE ''FOAM DOUBLE SIDED TAPE''.
For a permanent stick on, use SUPER GLUE.
Balsa wood will be interesting. You could glue pieces side by side to get width, then glue another layer underneath (going horizontal) for added strength.
I think you would need a press of some sort to make sure everything ends up being flat?
Something to think about..........
Sticking a number of the exciters to the Gatorfoam will help in power handling and efficiency. However, the exciters will also add mass to the panel which could negate the benefits.
So, serious consideration needs to be given to attach the back of the drivers to a wooden beam or brace at the rear to ''hold'' the exciters which then have only their feet in contact with the panel. No extra weight will be added in this method.
However, this process needs to be done some time after the panel has been mounted to it's frame to allow for any sag or downwards drift of the silicone rubber suspension on the corners and sides. Otherwise there may be a destructive force applied to the exciters that may end up in misaligning the voice coils and causing buzzes and rattles.
Some food for thought?
Sticking a number of the exciters to the Gatorfoam will help in power handling and efficiency. However, the exciters will also add mass to the panel which could negate the benefits.
So, serious consideration needs to be given to attach the back of the drivers to a wooden beam or brace at the rear to ''hold'' the exciters which then have only their feet in contact with the panel. No extra weight will be added in this method.
However, this process needs to be done some time after the panel has been mounted to it's frame to allow for any sag or downwards drift of the silicone rubber suspension on the corners and sides. Otherwise there may be a destructive force applied to the exciters that may end up in misaligning the voice coils and causing buzzes and rattles.
Some food for thought?
which is the function of the resistor on the positive wire??
regarding the 'opere sonore' aforementioned, they are made out of resonance wood from northen italy, from the same woods Stradivari picked up for his instruments...
they say the holes are there for tuning harmonic behaviour... indeed it's an elite product not audiophile oriented, mono with amp included, and will probably sound disappontly to anyone here... i've never heard them nor seen one around here in Rome.
i was thinking where liutery wood, like guitar, violin wood would work fine... i'll probably give this a try.
when i buyed my first t-amp, two soundpads came with. i sticked them into a pair of shoe boxes, make a cut with some kind of BR port, it was funny computer speakers... some bass tunes came out nerfield wall loaded, but nothing you would call music fidelity: i even attached them inside a big cardboard box like 1m*1m (the ones old television came with) and it filled the room with disturbing amount of bass... when sticked on the back of a classic guitar, funny, incredibly fat, due to the strings ringing harmonicaly came out. then i trashed them...
never tought i would find them here on the forum! this gets me really excited
when thinking of a box... do you think that the rear ala dipole radiation of back sound is the big part in the realism of the presentation?
regarding the 'opere sonore' aforementioned, they are made out of resonance wood from northen italy, from the same woods Stradivari picked up for his instruments...
they say the holes are there for tuning harmonic behaviour... indeed it's an elite product not audiophile oriented, mono with amp included, and will probably sound disappontly to anyone here... i've never heard them nor seen one around here in Rome.
i was thinking where liutery wood, like guitar, violin wood would work fine... i'll probably give this a try.
when i buyed my first t-amp, two soundpads came with. i sticked them into a pair of shoe boxes, make a cut with some kind of BR port, it was funny computer speakers... some bass tunes came out nerfield wall loaded, but nothing you would call music fidelity: i even attached them inside a big cardboard box like 1m*1m (the ones old television came with) and it filled the room with disturbing amount of bass... when sticked on the back of a classic guitar, funny, incredibly fat, due to the strings ringing harmonicaly came out. then i trashed them...
never tought i would find them here on the forum! this gets me really excited
when thinking of a box... do you think that the rear ala dipole radiation of back sound is the big part in the realism of the presentation?
el'OL...... interesting.....I'll keep that in mind.
Have got some 3M 300LSE (same stuff that's on the disk of the Soundpads) coming in the mail. I'll see what happens with that. They're free samples...... so what the heck?.
human.bin, the resistor is a PTC (Positive temperature coefficient).It's to stop the exciter from damage due to too much amplifier current/power (the exciter is rated for only 5-10 watts).
Sticking the soundpads in or on to boxes is A BAD CHOICE. Remember, these things are designed to make flat surfaces vibrate as a DML - DISTRIBUTED MODE LOUDSPEAKER.
Your choice of panel material is CRITICAL to the sound. Wood is generally NO GOOD as it is too heavy.
Also, the exciter MUST BE REMOVED FROM IT'S CASING : this makes a huge improvement!(but,......makes mounting the exciter more difficult)
The rear/dipole radiation is exactly what helps make this type of sound so special. Plus the DML method of operation is so unique in it's sound........I have never heard anything like it........very real and open, like a GIANT full range single driver.
Have got some 3M 300LSE (same stuff that's on the disk of the Soundpads) coming in the mail. I'll see what happens with that. They're free samples...... so what the heck?.
human.bin, the resistor is a PTC (Positive temperature coefficient).It's to stop the exciter from damage due to too much amplifier current/power (the exciter is rated for only 5-10 watts).
Sticking the soundpads in or on to boxes is A BAD CHOICE. Remember, these things are designed to make flat surfaces vibrate as a DML - DISTRIBUTED MODE LOUDSPEAKER.
Your choice of panel material is CRITICAL to the sound. Wood is generally NO GOOD as it is too heavy.
Also, the exciter MUST BE REMOVED FROM IT'S CASING : this makes a huge improvement!(but,......makes mounting the exciter more difficult)
The rear/dipole radiation is exactly what helps make this type of sound so special. Plus the DML method of operation is so unique in it's sound........I have never heard anything like it........very real and open, like a GIANT full range single driver.
The 3m adhesive tape has arrived on my doorstep the same day I spoke to the representative. Talk about GREAT SERVICE !!
Guess that I'll now need to find the time to mount all the drivers on the Gatorfoam and see what happens.
I will be noting changes in tonality, frequency response, sensitivity and will report accordingly.
Guess that I'll now need to find the time to mount all the drivers on the Gatorfoam and see what happens.
I will be noting changes in tonality, frequency response, sensitivity and will report accordingly.
an observation, isn't the lower range of frequencies reproduced only when long waves are free to travel at least a periodic portion of themselves on the board? the positioning is directly balancing the speaker frequency response, wouldn't it be less umbalanced if one puts them in two rows one in the most upper part one in the lower??
really don't understand why they are working better in a column, also i saw with my only crappy one (the other went completly destroiyed when i trashed those boxes) that it is giving concentrated HF energy in its position, ain't that oddity with your materail or are you planning do damp someway right in face of the transducers?
from the review of 6moons, biggest problem seems to be bodiness of sound, should't it be helped by woofer for the punchy job anyway? will you be reporting on LF extension and spl? is that a little sub in the middle in you photos?
really don't understand why they are working better in a column, also i saw with my only crappy one (the other went completly destroiyed when i trashed those boxes) that it is giving concentrated HF energy in its position, ain't that oddity with your materail or are you planning do damp someway right in face of the transducers?
from the review of 6moons, biggest problem seems to be bodiness of sound, should't it be helped by woofer for the punchy job anyway? will you be reporting on LF extension and spl? is that a little sub in the middle in you photos?
I have tried various positions with as many as six soundpads on a large 5mm thick cardboard sheet as you will have read in my previous posts.
I can still say to this day..............there was little if any difference to the frequency response. This was by ear only, not by measurement because I do not have the equipment.
A single vertical row of drivers that are offset (don't ask why as I am only following others using these exciters and panels commercially) from the middle point sound great. The more drivers, the louder the sound, and the greater the power handling(but, you must wire for correct impedance).
I am surprised that you found your experience showed ''concentrated high frequency energy''. I can only assume that this was because you were not using the Soundpad on a panel, only cardboard boxes
The panels I am using have excellent highs and mids - smooth and clear without a constant reminder of a boxed in woofer working in the background.
No that is not a subwoofer in my photo. That's a centre channel speaker for my home theatre set up. I don't even use a subwoofer - don't like them
You must remember that the 6 moons review is relating to a NXT type of speaker, but, it is not truly a full NXT implementation as the panel is not held at all the edges. The panel ''floats free'' with only 4 braces holding it to the panel.
As I have mentioned before, and I am realizing that the 6 moons reviews is correct in their findings that the panel's have a bass that at first seems low. However, when there is bass in a recording, you will know about it - believe me. No, it's not a subwoofer type bass (thank god ) but it can sound what seems like a very low response on occasions when it's on the recording.
The position of the panels, size of room etc., all make an important difference to the sound you will hear.
I have had people come in to my room while the panels were playing and say '' your horns sound very clean today........what have you done?'' when the horns were not even connected!). Others have listened to them and clearly stated that they prefer the sound of the horns. Hell, I still like the sound of the horns, but they don't reproduce the concert hall sound.
All I know is that the horns are far from the realism I hear when I go to the concert hall to hear a symphony played live. The NXT panels are FAR closer than the horns in that area.
People who have panel loudspeakers, whatever the type, will agree that bass from panels is completely different to ''BOX BASS''. Once you know what panel bass can do, you will never go back to box speakers!
When the panels are completed in their prototype form with all 6 excirers per side, I will try to get a SPL and even a frequency response curve. I know someone who can help in this field.
At this point in time I can sense that many of my fellow d.i.y.'ers who are following this thread think that I am either totally mad or exaggerating my claims as there is no way that this type of technology has any place on this forum.
I can only say that this project started early last year with lots of research, reading, then testing materials, trying the NXT exciters(with and without their enclosures in respect to the ''Soundpads'') in various positions and wiring configurations(noting that 5.4 ohms impedance instead of the amplifier's 6 ohms nominal, was enough for a high quality solid state amplifier to cause the PTC resistors on the exciters to cut in )and many man hours .
If I was not serious about the quality of sound so far, as an audiophile, this project would have been scrapped a long time ago. I have been more than happy to share my experiments with members and hopre that all the information has been of benefit to at least some.
NXT technology is NOT A TOY...........it is NOT just reserved for mini systems with add on subwoofers. It is not reserved for greeting cards, back pack music systems or''invisible'' computer monitor screens, computer speakers or even the SOUNDPAX fold up speaker pyramids or'' musical picture frames''.
I have found it to be an amazing alternative to the crud of the so called ''high end'' box speakers that pretend to be something they are not. Yes, they dominate the market because that's what everyone thinks is a ''loudspeaker''.
They make these things with new ''high tech'' cones that are advertised blatantly as ''revolutionary''........yeah?............when heard in action, some sound so bad that you wonder whether they should have retained paper cones and just painted them with a ''revolutionary'' coating that usually ends up being an expensive variant of nail polish.
I have been and still am slowly peeling away all the B.S that has been spread amongst the various audio forums and pathetic reviewers and am rapidly approaching what I believe will be the fist ''DIY LARGE PANEL NXT SPEAKER''.
Stop me if you can............................
I can still say to this day..............there was little if any difference to the frequency response. This was by ear only, not by measurement because I do not have the equipment.
A single vertical row of drivers that are offset (don't ask why as I am only following others using these exciters and panels commercially) from the middle point sound great. The more drivers, the louder the sound, and the greater the power handling(but, you must wire for correct impedance).
I am surprised that you found your experience showed ''concentrated high frequency energy''. I can only assume that this was because you were not using the Soundpad on a panel, only cardboard boxes
The panels I am using have excellent highs and mids - smooth and clear without a constant reminder of a boxed in woofer working in the background.
No that is not a subwoofer in my photo. That's a centre channel speaker for my home theatre set up. I don't even use a subwoofer - don't like them
You must remember that the 6 moons review is relating to a NXT type of speaker, but, it is not truly a full NXT implementation as the panel is not held at all the edges. The panel ''floats free'' with only 4 braces holding it to the panel.
As I have mentioned before, and I am realizing that the 6 moons reviews is correct in their findings that the panel's have a bass that at first seems low. However, when there is bass in a recording, you will know about it - believe me. No, it's not a subwoofer type bass (thank god
) but it can sound what seems like a very low response on occasions when it's on the recording.The position of the panels, size of room etc., all make an important difference to the sound you will hear.
I have had people come in to my room while the panels were playing and say '' your horns sound very clean today........what have you done?'' when the horns were not even connected!). Others have listened to them and clearly stated that they prefer the sound of the horns. Hell, I still like the sound of the horns, but they don't reproduce the concert hall sound.
All I know is that the horns are far from the realism I hear when I go to the concert hall to hear a symphony played live. The NXT panels are FAR closer than the horns in that area.
People who have panel loudspeakers, whatever the type, will agree that bass from panels is completely different to ''BOX BASS''. Once you know what panel bass can do, you will never go back to box speakers!
When the panels are completed in their prototype form with all 6 excirers per side, I will try to get a SPL and even a frequency response curve. I know someone who can help in this field.
At this point in time I can sense that many of my fellow d.i.y.'ers who are following this thread think that I am either totally mad or exaggerating my claims as there is no way that this type of technology has any place on this forum.
I can only say that this project started early last year with lots of research, reading, then testing materials, trying the NXT exciters(with and without their enclosures in respect to the ''Soundpads'') in various positions and wiring configurations(noting that 5.4 ohms impedance instead of the amplifier's 6 ohms nominal, was enough for a high quality solid state amplifier to cause the PTC resistors on the exciters to cut in
)and many man hours . If I was not serious about the quality of sound so far, as an audiophile, this project would have been scrapped a long time ago. I have been more than happy to share my experiments with members and hopre that all the information has been of benefit to at least some.
NXT technology is NOT A TOY...........it is NOT just reserved for mini systems with add on subwoofers. It is not reserved for greeting cards, back pack music systems or''invisible'' computer monitor screens, computer speakers or even the SOUNDPAX fold up speaker pyramids or'' musical picture frames''.
I have found it to be an amazing alternative to the crud of the so called ''high end'' box speakers that pretend to be something they are not. Yes, they dominate the market because that's what everyone thinks is a ''loudspeaker''.
They make these things with new ''high tech'' cones that are advertised blatantly as ''revolutionary''........yeah?............when heard in action, some sound so bad that you wonder whether they should have retained paper cones and just painted them with a ''revolutionary'' coating that usually ends up being an expensive variant of nail polish.
I have been and still am slowly peeling away all the B.S that has been spread amongst the various audio forums and pathetic reviewers and am rapidly approaching what I believe will be the fist ''DIY LARGE PANEL NXT SPEAKER''.
Stop me if you can............................
very happy about your determination!
can you explain the part about the transformers? i don't know a thing about it
how much did you spent for the panels? i was looking for something similar here in italy, don't know if i'll be finding it by the name so i don't want to be stealed on the prices.
can you explain the part about the transformers? i don't know a thing about it
how much did you spent for the panels? i was looking for something similar here in italy, don't know if i'll be finding it by the name so i don't want to be stealed on the prices.
human.bin, thanks.
If you mean the PIEZO TRANSFORMERS?........they came with the Le Son tweeters(built in). They match the very high impedence of the piezo to the amplifier load. With the transformers, the output is VERY much increased.
Parts Express sell a KSN1188 clone that is cheap and has a built in transformer. It is 4 inches in diameter and is a screw on P.A driver for horn flares.
If you mean the PIEZO TRANSFORMERS?........they came with the Le Son tweeters(built in). They match the very high impedence of the piezo to the amplifier load. With the transformers, the output is VERY much increased.
Parts Express sell a KSN1188 clone that is cheap and has a built in transformer. It is 4 inches in diameter and is a screw on P.A driver for horn flares.
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