Not a high quality driver, but useable ...
Well, with no disrespect to the Dutch, nor any other Nationality, Philips did manufacture some mediocre quality components, and still do !
Philips have developed and manufactured several interesting audio-related components over the years, but its one thing what their research engineers find is possible, and another thing what their Marketing department wants, and the Accounts department demands sales and profits, and what do most people buy ? - mediocrity ! , and most of you know this - that is why most of this Forum's members are into DIY.
If I've read that speaker's label correctly, it is an AD70801, is it ?
This is NOT to be confused with the AD7060, mentioned in Post #18.
The four digits" series Philips' drivers were mostly good quality in relation to what was possible for reasonable prices in their era -{the era when Hull's speaker systems' design book was published}.
The five digits' series were produced from some time in the early 1980s, and until I do not know when because I lost interest in them as their quality of both design and manufacture declined.
That driver has likely been in clean and dry storage somewhere for the past 20 years, thus why it looks new.
If it is an AD70801, then with regard to the specifications listed in the Philips' report - in the Link in Post #6 {thankyou Rolf !}- it is not likely to sound any good with no enclosure.
The "mfbfreaks" Links will not open via this computer, however I have remembered that during the 1980s Philips developed and were attempting to market a cheap Motional Feedback system of Amplfier + Speakers, and with those 70801 spec's, it looks very much like the type of driver Philips would have used in their MFB system.
It was not designed as a High-Quality MFB system, but as a mid-price system for general audio sales to music listeners who are not Hi-Fi enthusiasts, and do not spend a lot of money on equipment.
Given its small magnet size, high Q, and small diameter voice-coil, it will probably sound OK, and perhaps quite good as a speaker for a small Electric Guitar amplifier - a low power type for home practice and home-studio recording.
Probably best in a sealed enclosure, but not very small size - try in 18 <--> 25 Litres cabinet.
In such medium size cabinet the speaker may sound OK if open back, thus one can make with a removable back panel to try both options.
There are plenty of discarded cabinets in this volume range around if one looks - mostly thin-walled types used with low quality drivers as part of low quality home sound systems.
Surprisingly to some listeners, some of these thin walled cabinets sound quite good with electric guitar !
I'd try it with a low power valve/tube amp, either SE or PP, but if you have a solid state practice amp you like the sound of with electric guitar then try it with that.
engels said:
Well, with no disrespect to the Dutch, nor any other Nationality, Philips did manufacture some mediocre quality components, and still do !
Philips have developed and manufactured several interesting audio-related components over the years, but its one thing what their research engineers find is possible, and another thing what their Marketing department wants, and the Accounts department demands sales and profits, and what do most people buy ? - mediocrity ! , and most of you know this - that is why most of this Forum's members are into DIY.
If I've read that speaker's label correctly, it is an AD70801, is it ?
This is NOT to be confused with the AD7060, mentioned in Post #18.
The four digits" series Philips' drivers were mostly good quality in relation to what was possible for reasonable prices in their era -{the era when Hull's speaker systems' design book was published}.
The five digits' series were produced from some time in the early 1980s, and until I do not know when because I lost interest in them as their quality of both design and manufacture declined.
That driver has likely been in clean and dry storage somewhere for the past 20 years, thus why it looks new.
engels said:
If it is an AD70801, then with regard to the specifications listed in the Philips' report - in the Link in Post #6 {thankyou Rolf !}- it is not likely to sound any good with no enclosure.
The "mfbfreaks" Links will not open via this computer, however I have remembered that during the 1980s Philips developed and were attempting to market a cheap Motional Feedback system of Amplfier + Speakers, and with those 70801 spec's, it looks very much like the type of driver Philips would have used in their MFB system.
It was not designed as a High-Quality MFB system, but as a mid-price system for general audio sales to music listeners who are not Hi-Fi enthusiasts, and do not spend a lot of money on equipment.
Given its small magnet size, high Q, and small diameter voice-coil, it will probably sound OK, and perhaps quite good as a speaker for a small Electric Guitar amplifier - a low power type for home practice and home-studio recording.
Probably best in a sealed enclosure, but not very small size - try in 18 <--> 25 Litres cabinet.
In such medium size cabinet the speaker may sound OK if open back, thus one can make with a removable back panel to try both options.
There are plenty of discarded cabinets in this volume range around if one looks - mostly thin-walled types used with low quality drivers as part of low quality home sound systems.
Surprisingly to some listeners, some of these thin walled cabinets sound quite good with electric guitar !
I'd try it with a low power valve/tube amp, either SE or PP, but if you have a solid state practice amp you like the sound of with electric guitar then try it with that.
Re: Not a high quality driver, but useable ...
Interesting the new magnets (Nd) study and the coil and magnet inverted positions, with speaker working at resonant frequency. Similar in some cases to the 4.order band pass enclosure.
I very much agree. The 12100/W (Fs=19Hz) was (made) w/ a good intention thought. I made giant size speakers with it.
I see. Post #18 was my mistake. I don't have references on the AD70801.
I don't know why somebody would test a woofer (for sound not testing/measuring) out of the box (w/no enclosure).
Rolf Zetterberg said:
Interesting the new magnets (Nd) study and the coil and magnet inverted positions, with speaker working at resonant frequency. Similar in some cases to the 4.order band pass enclosure.
jacco vermeulen said:
I very much agree. The 12100/W (Fs=19Hz) was (made) w/ a good intention thought. I made giant size speakers with it.
alan-1-b said:
I see. Post #18 was my mistake. I don't have references on the AD70801.
I don't know why somebody would test a woofer (for sound not testing/measuring) out of the box (w/no enclosure).
Xing references:
Cabinet Plans for 9710 and Bombardon
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=1279248#post1279248
Cabinet Plans for 9710 and Bombardon
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=1279248#post1279248
final
So today I went to the same shop and asked the owner where those speakers came from and why they're so cheap. The answer was that some time ago he himself brought them from Holland. He had about 12 units left in the storage.
So you were right, they're not fake.
Hurry up! Only 8 left!
And I am going to make a miniature tube guitar amp with mine.
So today I went to the same shop and asked the owner where those speakers came from and why they're so cheap. The answer was that some time ago he himself brought them from Holland. He had about 12 units left in the storage.
So you were right, they're not fake.
Hurry up! Only 8 left!
And I am going to make a miniature tube guitar amp with mine.
Philips' 1970s and 1980s drivers, and, "engels" application of the AD70801 ...
Hi Inductor,
my reply mentioning Philips' four digits series versus their later five digits series was a bit limiting ...
The 12100 {AD12100/W8, and W4 models} was in the late 1970s four digit series with the extra digit I suppose to place it as a higher specification 12" than the AD1265/W_ .
I have not used a 12100, however looking at its published Specification it seems it was a good and useful driver.
With its 19 Hz Fs it will have been capable of a useful 40 Hz, or perhaps a bit lower, Fo in a decent sized sealed cabinet, and thus a solid tight bass response if everything was made well.
What size cabinets did you make - about 80 litres, or larger ?
Do you still have them ?
The five digits series had three 12" models, if I'm remembering correctly, with the highest spec one being the 100watt AD12250/W_ {4ohm and 8ohm versions}, Fs spec. 26 Hz.
The first of the five digits series cone drivers were OK if one bought the Rubber surround versions, but the common versions had foam surrounds which will have deteriorated to beyond use by now.
Conversely, Philips' early 1980s five digits series dome tweeters and dome midrange drivers were better than their late 1970s dome drivers.
In the theme of this Thread, there was an Asian copy driver manufactured and sold in some countries of the Philips AD02161/SQ8 midrange dome during the 1980s.
Hi engels,
I'm pleased you are now happy with your cheap speaker !
Post again when you have finished making your miniature guitar amp and tell us all how it sounds with that speaker.
Inductor said:
Hi Inductor,
my reply mentioning Philips' four digits series versus their later five digits series was a bit limiting ...
The 12100 {AD12100/W8, and W4 models} was in the late 1970s four digit series with the extra digit I suppose to place it as a higher specification 12" than the AD1265/W_ .
I have not used a 12100, however looking at its published Specification it seems it was a good and useful driver.
With its 19 Hz Fs it will have been capable of a useful 40 Hz, or perhaps a bit lower, Fo in a decent sized sealed cabinet, and thus a solid tight bass response if everything was made well.
What size cabinets did you make - about 80 litres, or larger ?
Do you still have them ?
The five digits series had three 12" models, if I'm remembering correctly, with the highest spec one being the 100watt AD12250/W_ {4ohm and 8ohm versions}, Fs spec. 26 Hz.
The first of the five digits series cone drivers were OK if one bought the Rubber surround versions, but the common versions had foam surrounds which will have deteriorated to beyond use by now.
Conversely, Philips' early 1980s five digits series dome tweeters and dome midrange drivers were better than their late 1970s dome drivers.
In the theme of this Thread, there was an Asian copy driver manufactured and sold in some countries of the Philips AD02161/SQ8 midrange dome during the 1980s.
engels said:
Hi engels,
I'm pleased you are now happy with your cheap speaker !
Post again when you have finished making your miniature guitar amp and tell us all how it sounds with that speaker.
Re: Philips' 1970s and 1980s drivers, and, "engels" application of the AD70801 ...
I had good results for an HT sub using a pair in push-push. Installed them into a 2.5 ft^3 (70 litre) aperiodic box.
Just yesterday i scored a pair of the even older alnico version of these (1969)
dave
alan-1-b said:
I had good results for an HT sub using a pair in push-push. Installed them into a 2.5 ft^3 (70 litre) aperiodic box.
Just yesterday i scored a pair of the even older alnico version of these (1969)
dave
old Philip's numbers
Dave,
Philip's Date Codes were usually in a 2 item form - an alphabetical letter followed by a numerical digit.
Look around on the chassis and on the back of the cone - it could be stamped on either.
The 12 digit number you posted :-
the first four digits are part of the Series Number, and that 2422 is probably on all the drivers of that particular series, regardless of diameter, etc ...
the next three digits, 256, are also part of the Series Number, and probably refers to either or both - the type of driver ; the size of the driver.
the final five digits, 41302, refers to that specific model and probably includes an Impedance Code, and perhaps a Surround Code if the driver was available with an option of two or more types of surrounds, eg: Foam Rubber ; Solid Rubber ; corrugated Textile {cloth} ; coated corrugated Paper .
I doubt that Foam was used back at the time of those Alnicos, but corrugated surrounds were common then.
My Philips' speaker drivers' comprehensive data book is in storage elsewhere currently, thus I can't refer to it, but am going from memory and from guessing from how the same Four-Three-Five configuration of digits was used by Philips for their various plastic-film capacitor types in their data book, which I do have here.
Dave,
Philip's Date Codes were usually in a 2 item form - an alphabetical letter followed by a numerical digit.
Look around on the chassis and on the back of the cone - it could be stamped on either.
The 12 digit number you posted :-
the first four digits are part of the Series Number, and that 2422 is probably on all the drivers of that particular series, regardless of diameter, etc ...
the next three digits, 256, are also part of the Series Number, and probably refers to either or both - the type of driver ; the size of the driver.
the final five digits, 41302, refers to that specific model and probably includes an Impedance Code, and perhaps a Surround Code if the driver was available with an option of two or more types of surrounds, eg: Foam Rubber ; Solid Rubber ; corrugated Textile {cloth} ; coated corrugated Paper .
I doubt that Foam was used back at the time of those Alnicos, but corrugated surrounds were common then.
My Philips' speaker drivers' comprehensive data book is in storage elsewhere currently, thus I can't refer to it, but am going from memory and from guessing from how the same Four-Three-Five configuration of digits was used by Philips for their various plastic-film capacitor types in their data book, which I do have here.
Hi Alan,
It's not Alnico (Aluminium, Nickel & Cobalt) but it is Ticonal (Titanium, Cobalt, Nickel & Aluminium)
As I understand, Philips started using Ticonal magnets right after WO2, because of the scarceness of permanent magnets.
On my Philips' drivers, the following numbers are on the back of the magnets:
(both drivers have the same numbers)
2422 256 41302
AD 1256/W8
24 70 AH
No numbers on the chassis, though....
Cheers,
Empee
It's not Alnico (Aluminium, Nickel & Cobalt) but it is Ticonal (Titanium, Cobalt, Nickel & Aluminium)
As I understand, Philips started using Ticonal magnets right after WO2, because of the scarceness of permanent magnets.
On my Philips' drivers, the following numbers are on the back of the magnets:
(both drivers have the same numbers)
2422 256 41302
AD 1256/W8
24 70 AH
No numbers on the chassis, though....
Cheers,
Empee
Yay! someone with the same drivers as I have... Perhaps we will find out more about these drivers together. If someone has already posted something about these then I apologize for being too lazy to search the thread.
I recently stumbled across a pair of Solid Wood cabs at a local thrift store for $30 and couldn't turn them down. The dust caps on the 12 inch woofers were cracked and crumbling, so I hit parts-express.com and bought new drivers for the whole enclosure.
Got the woofers in today (Goldwood, nothing special) and to my surprise the drivers that were already in there sounded better despite their looking to be about as old as I am, if not older.
I will post pics of the cabs soon, as well as the drivers. Now I'm in a quandry as to what I'm going to do with these drivers. Dust caps are cheap and easy to install. I also stumbled across a brochure online (in German) that someone posted a link to on this site, possibly this thread with pictures of enclosures that had more PCB and soldered components than my first PC. Anyway, I noticed that the tweeters in the pic were the same ones as were in my cabs.
The mids are 4 inch, with a really deep plastic bucket behind them, I would be inclined to believe that they are not original to the Phillips set, but rather re-purposed full ranges.
Anyway, glad to join this site. My posts tend to be a bit wordy from time to time, and for that I apologize in advance.
had AD1256/w4's for 30 years now.
i hope so .
more Philips stuff -
mfbfreaks : Official Site
random Philips photos -
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An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
kinda late now.
my apologes.
maybe the Mods ...
not mine,
those are from the motional feedback Philips line -
Philips 22RH532 - Provided by mfbfreaks.nl
and thanks for the photos -
4169
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