Hello,
Please find attached a list of (old) Philips CDM's and their servicenrs. Although this info was publicly available (1997) it seems to be forgotten. Therefore I thought this info might be handy.
If you do not find the CDM used in your player carefully check the identification.
Please note that there are many different reasons for a factory, service organisation or supplyorganisation to use/ change/ replace a codenr. It makes the search a bit harder , but not inpossible.
Ward
Please find attached a list of (old) Philips CDM's and their servicenrs. Although this info was publicly available (1997) it seems to be forgotten. Therefore I thought this info might be handy.
If you do not find the CDM used in your player carefully check the identification.
Please note that there are many different reasons for a factory, service organisation or supplyorganisation to use/ change/ replace a codenr. It makes the search a bit harder , but not inpossible.
Ward
Ward,
You seem to be well informed on those old swingarms.
Got an cdm3 (from a DIGITAL cdrom player). Could this be
used instead of other cdm types? It is nearly impossible to fine a player with a broken cdm3, since there were only a few using it.
Thinking of laser current and motors, not so much connections.
btw, heard that next to cost issues, there was an other reason to go to newer cdm types: there were some resonance problems (maybe only with the plastic parts, so that's why there are so many cdm2/4/9)
Allthough cmd0/1 are great cdm's, they usually come with 70xx chipset and 1540 DAC's in the player. It is easier to use later cdm2/4 models with IC's (7210/7220/7310) which have datasheets available (on the net).
Another cdm1 model: the second B&O player (cd-x =philips internally).
Groetjes,
GuidoB
PS, for the guys that know my 2*1541 DAC. Got it up and running with two 1:15 amplimo mic transformers. Seems to be very good, tom i am going to listen on a good installation (mine is being reworked...).
You seem to be well informed on those old swingarms.
Got an cdm3 (from a DIGITAL cdrom player). Could this be
used instead of other cdm types? It is nearly impossible to fine a player with a broken cdm3, since there were only a few using it.
Thinking of laser current and motors, not so much connections.
btw, heard that next to cost issues, there was an other reason to go to newer cdm types: there were some resonance problems (maybe only with the plastic parts, so that's why there are so many cdm2/4/9)
Allthough cmd0/1 are great cdm's, they usually come with 70xx chipset and 1540 DAC's in the player. It is easier to use later cdm2/4 models with IC's (7210/7220/7310) which have datasheets available (on the net).
Another cdm1 model: the second B&O player (cd-x =philips internally).
Groetjes,
GuidoB
PS, for the guys that know my 2*1541 DAC. Got it up and running with two 1:15 amplimo mic transformers. Seems to be very good, tom i am going to listen on a good installation (mine is being reworked...).
Attachments
Guido
Can you please explain the resonance problem you referred to.
I have an old Philips CD303 with this style of mechanism and it occasionally makes some very loud vibrating noises,( mechanical) like a whistle and the laser stops reading.
It seems to be some sort of resonance in the sliding tray mechanism that holds the laser and motor
Can you please explain the resonance problem you referred to.
I have an old Philips CD303 with this style of mechanism and it occasionally makes some very loud vibrating noises,( mechanical) like a whistle and the laser stops reading.
It seems to be some sort of resonance in the sliding tray mechanism that holds the laser and motor
Hello Guido,
I mentioned the cdm3 as mainly used for car applications. But you are right. Cdm3 was used for CD-ROM as well. CDM3 was an unfortunate project. As the intended applications were in a heavy shock/vibrations or high radial-access areas the demands were high. After the low cost CDM2 this was again a metal cdm. Some considerable efforts were made to make it working. Unfortunately the learning curves for car based systems and CD-ROM were done with cdm3. Combined with internal discussions about swing arms, cost savings and indeed a quality which was not as reliable as needed this was an unlucky project. I have seen samples outperforming cdm1, but also seen them failing painfully. At the moment the design was stable its moment was already gone.
Cdm3 comes with a lot of integrated items like laser powersupply, photodiode processing, servo. Check a carplayer such as 22DC085 for more details. A cdm3 is not the most easy base for a diy project.
But...
You basicly need a stable tracking to play a disc. If you do not need a fancy user interface you can use a CD-ROM or carplayer as base. What you do with the HF is relatively free to decide.
Success!
I did not mention B&O as cdm's were not available via Philips Service. As the cdm's used by B&O have a factory codenr. tracing a cdm back to Philips should be possible.
Ward
I mentioned the cdm3 as mainly used for car applications. But you are right. Cdm3 was used for CD-ROM as well. CDM3 was an unfortunate project. As the intended applications were in a heavy shock/vibrations or high radial-access areas the demands were high. After the low cost CDM2 this was again a metal cdm. Some considerable efforts were made to make it working. Unfortunately the learning curves for car based systems and CD-ROM were done with cdm3. Combined with internal discussions about swing arms, cost savings and indeed a quality which was not as reliable as needed this was an unlucky project. I have seen samples outperforming cdm1, but also seen them failing painfully. At the moment the design was stable its moment was already gone.
Cdm3 comes with a lot of integrated items like laser powersupply, photodiode processing, servo. Check a carplayer such as 22DC085 for more details. A cdm3 is not the most easy base for a diy project.
But...
You basicly need a stable tracking to play a disc. If you do not need a fancy user interface you can use a CD-ROM or carplayer as base. What you do with the HF is relatively free to decide.
Success!
I did not mention B&O as cdm's were not available via Philips Service. As the cdm's used by B&O have a factory codenr. tracing a cdm back to Philips should be possible.
Ward
Hello George A
According to my information CD303 has a cdm1 mechanism.
You know there is a service mode/loop for that player. You can go through the service loops and find the fault. Mostly it is something like pressing the power-on button and play button at the same time during switching-on. With the NEXT button you select the service loops one by one. I do not know the exact buttons by heart, but it is very easy to determine. If you can, use the service docs.
Success
Ward
According to my information CD303 has a cdm1 mechanism.
You know there is a service mode/loop for that player. You can go through the service loops and find the fault. Mostly it is something like pressing the power-on button and play button at the same time during switching-on. With the NEXT button you select the service loops one by one. I do not know the exact buttons by heart, but it is very easy to determine. If you can, use the service docs.
Success
Ward
Ward,
This is really 'inside information'. Great! Got mine from a CD ROM player, but it was scsi and no front controls. It did 'play' the audio disks.
As it also was using a cd cartridge, i descided to take it apart.
Should not have done that, i know now (it was unused..)
Anyway,
I'm using a cd650 now with cdm2 for my own 'projects'. works fine, plays all. Have a new cdm4 spare (the one that fits like cdm2).
Also have two marantz players with cdm4 and a few spare cdm's (5 euro in germany recently) The cd60 i got is a great player, however i still need to fix it.
Got the B&O cheap because it was dead. It's now alive again.
Just for nostalgia.
....Other cdm1 usage: wurlitzer!!
Pics of the players/cdm's all over this forum, but you know them already i think.
GuidoB (!=GuidoT !)
This is really 'inside information'. Great! Got mine from a CD ROM player, but it was scsi and no front controls. It did 'play' the audio disks.
As it also was using a cd cartridge, i descided to take it apart.
Should not have done that, i know now (it was unused..)
Anyway,
I'm using a cd650 now with cdm2 for my own 'projects'. works fine, plays all. Have a new cdm4 spare (the one that fits like cdm2).
Also have two marantz players with cdm4 and a few spare cdm's (5 euro in germany recently) The cd60 i got is a great player, however i still need to fix it.
Got the B&O cheap because it was dead. It's now alive again.
Just for nostalgia.
....Other cdm1 usage: wurlitzer!!
Pics of the players/cdm's all over this forum, but you know them already i think.
GuidoB (!=GuidoT !)
Hello Ward, do you perhaps know what the differences between versions like for example cdm 4/23 and cdm 4/19 are ?
I know the differences betweens some of the versions ( base plate etc. ) but I suspect there are differences in laser quality/properties ( and maybe the spindle motor ) as well. Unfortunately it seems this information got lost in time ...
Regards,
Jean-Paul
I know the differences betweens some of the versions ( base plate etc. ) but I suspect there are differences in laser quality/properties ( and maybe the spindle motor ) as well. Unfortunately it seems this information got lost in time ...
Regards,
Jean-Paul
Ward,
Sorry, more questions.. But since you are/were so close to the fire you might know this:
The two IC's controlling the CDM TDA57xx are again (partly)controlled by the microcontroller. This again gets the data from the decoder. I am thinking of those MAB84xx controllers.
E.g. the B0-B3 signals to control the 'arm'.
My question: is the code in the controller adapted to the cdm type? So is the programming different for say cdm1 and cdm4.
I can imagine it is, since the arm of the cdm1 is much heavier and you need to give a bit more 'push' to move it (so timing differences in those controlsignals).
I am asking this, because if they are the same i could get the cdm3 working with an old cdm1/2/4 based player i get get for little money. Btw i have a schematic too for a cdm3: the studer B226 (from memory) so i know the drivers needed to connect to the 57 to get the motors running. The only mistery is the code inside the controller..
Bedankt!!
GuidoB
Sorry, more questions.. But since you are/were so close to the fire you might know this:
The two IC's controlling the CDM TDA57xx are again (partly)controlled by the microcontroller. This again gets the data from the decoder. I am thinking of those MAB84xx controllers.
E.g. the B0-B3 signals to control the 'arm'.
My question: is the code in the controller adapted to the cdm type? So is the programming different for say cdm1 and cdm4.
I can imagine it is, since the arm of the cdm1 is much heavier and you need to give a bit more 'push' to move it (so timing differences in those controlsignals).
I am asking this, because if they are the same i could get the cdm3 working with an old cdm1/2/4 based player i get get for little money. Btw i have a schematic too for a cdm3: the studer B226 (from memory) so i know the drivers needed to connect to the 57 to get the motors running. The only mistery is the code inside the controller..
Bedankt!!
GuidoB
Hello Jean-Paul,
I checked my information. I can not help you exactly but I found the following which explains the variety of cdm4 mechanisms:
-There are mechanical/ plastics differences for specific CD players.
-There are cdm's with and without pos.6105 servo microprocessor.
-There are cdm's with "dynamic" and "static" motors
-This motor difference leads to different topplates / motormounting
-There are design improvements resulting in different passive components.
-There are different servo microprocessor softwares.
Yes, this leads to a massive variety of products. This is of course not workable in terms of logistics and costs for a service organisation. So they do a standardisation to the minimum variety needed cover a good service. Replacements are always drop-in replacements. A reason to create a cdm4/xx number can be complex product changes but also a simple mechanical issue.
So if you can not see any apparent differences then the differences are in the electronics or software. If products were interchangeable the service organisation would have done this.
Ward
I checked my information. I can not help you exactly but I found the following which explains the variety of cdm4 mechanisms:
-There are mechanical/ plastics differences for specific CD players.
-There are cdm's with and without pos.6105 servo microprocessor.
-There are cdm's with "dynamic" and "static" motors
-This motor difference leads to different topplates / motormounting
-There are design improvements resulting in different passive components.
-There are different servo microprocessor softwares.
Yes, this leads to a massive variety of products. This is of course not workable in terms of logistics and costs for a service organisation. So they do a standardisation to the minimum variety needed cover a good service. Replacements are always drop-in replacements. A reason to create a cdm4/xx number can be complex product changes but also a simple mechanical issue.
So if you can not see any apparent differences then the differences are in the electronics or software. If products were interchangeable the service organisation would have done this.
Ward
Hello Guido,
The controller is a called "servo" controller. Everything which has to do with "servo" has to do with interactions between electronics and displacement and control of mass. If you could get that code you need a lot of CD servo/playability knowledge to adapt it. Most "manufacturers" stick to DA converters and outputboards but purchase the cdm. For good reason
Ward
The controller is a called "servo" controller. Everything which has to do with "servo" has to do with interactions between electronics and displacement and control of mass. If you could get that code you need a lot of CD servo/playability knowledge to adapt it. Most "manufacturers" stick to DA converters and outputboards but purchase the cdm. For good reason
Ward
Hello Guido
I am looking for CDM 3 of the control software too. And I from testing in know CDM the softwares of 3s with CDM more than 2 CDMs is getting more different totally( want and dismantle old the control CPU of the machine came and make rotary table of at I) to hope help and look for and down at everybody. The following that I make to cast aluminium case DAC, make Digital Transport
I is very bad English during diligent study in now.
Sorry
I am looking for CDM 3 of the control software too. And I from testing in know CDM the softwares of 3s with CDM more than 2 CDMs is getting more different totally( want and dismantle old the control CPU of the machine came and make rotary table of at I) to hope help and look for and down at everybody. The following that I make to cast aluminium case DAC, make Digital Transport
I is very bad English during diligent study in now.
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KRELL MD1 KRELL CD DSP
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An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
EDUM said:Hello Guido,
The controller is a called "servo" controller. Everything which has to do with "servo" has to do with interactions between electronics and displacement and control of mass. If you could get that code you need a lot of CD servo/playability knowledge to adapt it. Most "manufacturers" stick to DA converters and outputboards but purchase the cdm. For good reason
Ward
Ward,
I take that as a "NO". my question was not to fiddle around inside the servo controllers software. But more "are they all the same for all transport types". Getting an old servo controller and the other parts is no problem. But would a servo controller inside a cdm4 player work with a cdm3 based transport if i stick it in with all the other parts needed for cdm3.
I know the cdrom picture btw, mine looked just like it.
It is made in eindhoven bij some separate company than philips.
Anyone with a dead krell/meta research/studer/?? having a cdm3
GuidoB
Hello Guido,
I am afraid that it will not work. But...
There might be an alternative.
Normally if a Cd-player plays a disc the Focus- and Radial and Motor servo are in closed loop. To make an analog servo system doing this is not that difficult. Check a Cdm1, Cdm2 manual for some inspiration. This gives a base of working as you have to adapt now to the correct servo time constants. You adapt from Cdm1 to Cdm3. This is certainly not easy but can be a lot of fun. In the meantime you learn alot about disc behaviour. See what happens with scratches and fingerprints
So now we have a disc being played. You have to realise that before we reach this situation that a disc has to start up first
During actions like skipping a number on a CD or focussing during startup the servo loops are opened and the arm or focus actuator is forced in the desired place. Roughly speaking this is controlling switches and interpreting the fotodiode signals. So if you are good in micro controllers you can implement function by function you desire.
This is in fact building your own CD-player As I said not an easy task, but if you have a scrap Cdm and a lot of time give it a try.
Success!
Ward
I am afraid that it will not work. But...
There might be an alternative.
Normally if a Cd-player plays a disc the Focus- and Radial and Motor servo are in closed loop. To make an analog servo system doing this is not that difficult. Check a Cdm1, Cdm2 manual for some inspiration. This gives a base of working as you have to adapt now to the correct servo time constants. You adapt from Cdm1 to Cdm3. This is certainly not easy but can be a lot of fun. In the meantime you learn alot about disc behaviour. See what happens with scratches and fingerprints
So now we have a disc being played. You have to realise that before we reach this situation that a disc has to start up first
During actions like skipping a number on a CD or focussing during startup the servo loops are opened and the arm or focus actuator is forced in the desired place. Roughly speaking this is controlling switches and interpreting the fotodiode signals. So if you are good in micro controllers you can implement function by function you desire.
This is in fact building your own CD-player
As I said not an easy task, but if you have a scrap Cdm and a lot of time give it a try.Success!
Ward
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