Re: Re: Software for sound improvement
Noooooo... a non believer in the command line interface
Yes, Brutefir doesnt do true FIR... hence why a few poeple here have had a go at it.
But i havnt seen anyone yet prove that because it doesnt perform true FIR that it gives comprimised audio quality.
You cant complain about having enough time for such things either... if you dont have time, you shouldnt be on these DIY forums at all, as then you obviously dont have time to do all the DIY tweaking and building that is discussed here.
Actually, I cant see why your even interested in this discussion....
So you can go down to your local shop, buy the equiptment to do all that, go home, "push a few sliders" and have it sounding perfect in 15mins?
I dont think so...
Noooooo... a non believer in the command line interface
Yes, Brutefir doesnt do true FIR... hence why a few poeple here have had a go at it.
But i havnt seen anyone yet prove that because it doesnt perform true FIR that it gives comprimised audio quality.
You cant complain about having enough time for such things either... if you dont have time, you shouldnt be on these DIY forums at all, as then you obviously dont have time to do all the DIY tweaking and building that is discussed here.
Actually, I cant see why your even interested in this discussion....
So you can go down to your local shop, buy the equiptment to do all that, go home, "push a few sliders" and have it sounding perfect in 15mins?
I dont think so...
Hi!
Like I've posted some times before, I am also into this for the last two years, programming a kind of "firmware" for my system by myself, but using other people player software for actual playback of video and audio.
Most people tend to ignore my solution since it is based on (SB) EMU10k1 sound hardware (aka SB Live, SB Audigy, SB Audigy2, APS). I would gladly switch over to another soundcard, but none offers what I like to do with my system.
BruteFIR is a nice approach, however I don't like to be wasting the capabilities of my DSP chip on my soundcard, so I'm stuck with EMU10k1 and the freeware kxProject, where I can load a lot of code into the DSP, building active XO, EQ and so on. And playback of my own encoded DivX-movies eats up 90 % cpu time on my XP 1800+ (with full postprocessing)...
One drawback is that I am stuck with WIndows (2000) as my OS - and I am an all-time linux user...
-, but when I started my project I wanted to playback DivX-videos, which linux was only rudimentally capable of at that moment.
When I get my new digicam back from my friend I can post pics of my setup.
I am using a Yeong Yang Casper case, with a 20 * 4 lines LCD display hooked up to the single serial port of my MB (which is very important to me, I don't want to turn on my TV for simple audio playback), a large psu on the outside of the case (since the original PSU's small fan made a lot of noise), 512 MB RAM, diy-IR-receiver hooked up to IRda-port, using WinLirc as IR-server, an underclocked GeForce MX400 for TV-out.
Soundcard (SB Audigy) is connected (active XO) directly to diy-P3A-amp ("sattelite" speakers, attached to rear out = better sonical performance than front out), and directly (making the signal balanced in DSP) to diy-mono-EndMillenium amp, hooked up to 15" diy Zebulon subwoofer.
Actually my systems signals are free of noise (compared to "normal" CD player playback), and although I am often reworking my diy-amps by using better parts than before, I actually most often do not hear any differences to before the rework (example: exchanging MJ15003/15004 for MJL4281A/MJL4302A, exchanging normal resistors for Welwyn RC, bypassing PSU diodes with Wima FKP...), but I am doing it since it doesn't cost me a lot of money, and it is always nice to know that theoretically it should be better.
But someone brought over a reclocked and reworked NAD CD-player, with an external DAC to my place, and I also did not hear any difference to playback with my PC based player.
Right now my player "eats" (besides having music library on HD) audio CDs, songs in musical formats .flac, .mp3, .ogg, .mpc, .wma, .aac..., DVDs, movies in formats DivX (all versions), Xvid, real, QT, WMV, containers like matroska, ogm, avi...
It also plays back PSX games, old SNES and Sega Genesis roms...
Basically I can play anything you can throw at Winamp and ZoomPlayer. My own software is doing all the IR / LCD display stuff, noticing disc changes, scanning the HD and discs for media files, building menus upon what is actually found on the discs, volume handling, handling of external program crashes and so on
I've been looking into switching over to linux, but remotely controlling other programs is not as easy in Linux as in Windows (where I can use Windows message system to remote control applications).
And I wouldn't miss the comfort of my Box compared to simple CD playback (and talking about IPod: No alternative for me, since it doesn't support Ogg Vorbis and FLAC... take a look at Rio Karma...)
It is fun to build (and cheap for me, as well. I always have spare computer parts...), and started to work nicely once my own program evolved from pre-alpha state...
Bye,
Arndt
Like I've posted some times before, I am also into this for the last two years, programming a kind of "firmware" for my system by myself, but using other people player software for actual playback of video and audio.
Most people tend to ignore my solution since it is based on (SB) EMU10k1 sound hardware (aka SB Live, SB Audigy, SB Audigy2, APS). I would gladly switch over to another soundcard, but none offers what I like to do with my system.
BruteFIR is a nice approach, however I don't like to be wasting the capabilities of my DSP chip on my soundcard, so I'm stuck with EMU10k1 and the freeware kxProject, where I can load a lot of code into the DSP, building active XO, EQ and so on. And playback of my own encoded DivX-movies eats up 90 % cpu time on my XP 1800+ (with full postprocessing)...
One drawback is that I am stuck with WIndows (2000) as my OS - and I am an all-time linux user...
-, but when I started my project I wanted to playback DivX-videos, which linux was only rudimentally capable of at that moment.When I get my new digicam back from my friend I can post pics of my setup.
I am using a Yeong Yang Casper case, with a 20 * 4 lines LCD display hooked up to the single serial port of my MB (which is very important to me, I don't want to turn on my TV for simple audio playback), a large psu on the outside of the case (since the original PSU's small fan made a lot of noise), 512 MB RAM, diy-IR-receiver hooked up to IRda-port, using WinLirc as IR-server, an underclocked GeForce MX400 for TV-out.
Soundcard (SB Audigy) is connected (active XO) directly to diy-P3A-amp ("sattelite" speakers, attached to rear out = better sonical performance than front out), and directly (making the signal balanced in DSP) to diy-mono-EndMillenium amp, hooked up to 15" diy Zebulon subwoofer.
Actually my systems signals are free of noise (compared to "normal" CD player playback), and although I am often reworking my diy-amps by using better parts than before, I actually most often do not hear any differences to before the rework (example: exchanging MJ15003/15004 for MJL4281A/MJL4302A, exchanging normal resistors for Welwyn RC, bypassing PSU diodes with Wima FKP...), but I am doing it since it doesn't cost me a lot of money, and it is always nice to know that theoretically it should be better.
But someone brought over a reclocked and reworked NAD CD-player, with an external DAC to my place, and I also did not hear any difference to playback with my PC based player.
Right now my player "eats" (besides having music library on HD) audio CDs, songs in musical formats .flac, .mp3, .ogg, .mpc, .wma, .aac..., DVDs, movies in formats DivX (all versions), Xvid, real, QT, WMV, containers like matroska, ogm, avi...
It also plays back PSX games, old SNES and Sega Genesis roms...
Basically I can play anything you can throw at Winamp and ZoomPlayer. My own software is doing all the IR / LCD display stuff, noticing disc changes, scanning the HD and discs for media files, building menus upon what is actually found on the discs, volume handling, handling of external program crashes and so on
I've been looking into switching over to linux, but remotely controlling other programs is not as easy in Linux as in Windows (where I can use Windows message system to remote control applications).
And I wouldn't miss the comfort of my Box compared to simple CD playback (and talking about IPod: No alternative for me, since it doesn't support Ogg Vorbis and FLAC... take a look at Rio Karma...)
It is fun to build (and cheap for me, as well. I always have spare computer parts...), and started to work nicely once my own program evolved from pre-alpha state...
Bye,
Arndt
Now THAT's a DIY'er!
Arndt is a hard-core diy'er. Thanks for posting and I hope everyone here can see that he's doing as much in software as many of you are doing in hardware and having fun doing it too.
Arndt, I can see why people haven't been following in your footsteps however. They all want hifi sound and that requires at least jitter-free cd-quality digital s/pdif out of the soundcard or alternatively a soundcard with equivalent quality to the external dacs in abundance around this forum. Can we agree your sound is probably not at the same level as many of the diyAudio experts get from their dedicated hardware?
But everybody should realize that there are many people like Arndt around the world who are writing software and configuring adventurous systems. Think about the rate of evolution of all these efforts going much faster than your hardware efforts because of a fundamental difference between hardware and software. You can send circuit diagrams and pcb layouts and we can all buy the latest group-buy projects, but it takes a long time to build hardware and share it with the diy community. It is effortless and instant to share new software around the world. Even if you don't like some of Arndt's system choices, you might love his software crossovers and within a week nearly everyone with a decent diy pc setup could be converted to them. And then when someone improves those 3 weeks later, you get another coordinated step of progress.
Anyway, the point I'm driving at is that the huge amount of ongoing effort toward pc music playing and encoding and dsp software could accelerate hifi quality if there was some interest, feedback and direction from you all.
Would someone with experience at measuring pc jitter please read this thread and post your thoughts (forum esp)? I know some of you routinely master clock your soundcard. Have you made measurements? How far have you gone?
-Robert
Arndt is a hard-core diy'er. Thanks for posting and I hope everyone here can see that he's doing as much in software as many of you are doing in hardware and having fun doing it too.
Arndt, I can see why people haven't been following in your footsteps however. They all want hifi sound and that requires at least jitter-free cd-quality digital s/pdif out of the soundcard or alternatively a soundcard with equivalent quality to the external dacs in abundance around this forum. Can we agree your sound is probably not at the same level as many of the diyAudio experts get from their dedicated hardware?
But everybody should realize that there are many people like Arndt around the world who are writing software and configuring adventurous systems. Think about the rate of evolution of all these efforts going much faster than your hardware efforts because of a fundamental difference between hardware and software. You can send circuit diagrams and pcb layouts and we can all buy the latest group-buy projects, but it takes a long time to build hardware and share it with the diy community. It is effortless and instant to share new software around the world. Even if you don't like some of Arndt's system choices, you might love his software crossovers and within a week nearly everyone with a decent diy pc setup could be converted to them. And then when someone improves those 3 weeks later, you get another coordinated step of progress.
Anyway, the point I'm driving at is that the huge amount of ongoing effort toward pc music playing and encoding and dsp software could accelerate hifi quality if there was some interest, feedback and direction from you all.
Would someone with experience at measuring pc jitter please read this thread and post your thoughts (forum esp)? I know some of you routinely master clock your soundcard. Have you made measurements? How far have you gone?
-Robert
PC as an audio server
I use a PC locked away in a central cupboard to serve 200Gb of audio all over my house including the home theatre & living room. The main advantage of a PC based audio system is the flexibility it brings in distributing audio to each room. Setup is:
- CD's ripped via EAC and stored in Windows Media pro lossless
- 4 instances of winamp connecting to analogue 4 stereo channels on a Delta 410
- Using a hardware switch matrix to take the 4 channels to switch to 16 different locations around the house. The audio matrix uses a series of high performing analogue switches to connect one of the 4 channels to a balanced line driver. The matrix switch uses a PIC microcontroller connected via RS-232 to the PC, where it is controlled via a Microsoft .NET service to select what channel goes to what zone. All DIY.
- I have shielded twisted pair going to each room where there is a balanced line receiver and gainclone in each wall, connected to inwall speakers.
- The gainclone amp uses a digital volume control (LM1972) controlled by a PIC microcontroller.
- Each room has a small touchscreen that allows me to browse all my CD covers, search on artists, create playlists etc. THe touchscreen connects to the gainclone PIC microcontroller via RS-232 which also does things like record temperature, detect motion in the room etc.
- THe touchscreen communicates back to the central PC over Ethernet to control the songs played on winamp using a home grown automation program.
A fairly extreme DIY project but the resulting system is extremely flexible and the PC is the heart of the system.
Regards,
Dean
I use a PC locked away in a central cupboard to serve 200Gb of audio all over my house including the home theatre & living room. The main advantage of a PC based audio system is the flexibility it brings in distributing audio to each room. Setup is:
- CD's ripped via EAC and stored in Windows Media pro lossless
- 4 instances of winamp connecting to analogue 4 stereo channels on a Delta 410
- Using a hardware switch matrix to take the 4 channels to switch to 16 different locations around the house. The audio matrix uses a series of high performing analogue switches to connect one of the 4 channels to a balanced line driver. The matrix switch uses a PIC microcontroller connected via RS-232 to the PC, where it is controlled via a Microsoft .NET service to select what channel goes to what zone. All DIY.
- I have shielded twisted pair going to each room where there is a balanced line receiver and gainclone in each wall, connected to inwall speakers.
- The gainclone amp uses a digital volume control (LM1972) controlled by a PIC microcontroller.
- Each room has a small touchscreen that allows me to browse all my CD covers, search on artists, create playlists etc. THe touchscreen connects to the gainclone PIC microcontroller via RS-232 which also does things like record temperature, detect motion in the room etc.
- THe touchscreen communicates back to the central PC over Ethernet to control the songs played on winamp using a home grown automation program.
A fairly extreme DIY project but the resulting system is extremely flexible and the PC is the heart of the system.
Regards,
Dean
Cradle22 said:
I will be using kxProject drivers with my system. They look easy to set up for crossover/eq duties.
I have an audigy2, but with the right software and some hardware mods to the card, I reckon I can get it sounding pretty good. I can expermint with leaving the EQ out and just using digital room correction. As I see it, I have many options to play with, and I believe that the power the PC provides will ultimately outweigh any disadvantages.
In the future I can consider using a different soundcard, such as an M-audio, and going with external DACs
My home designed/built speaker system uses bandor 2" (fitted in carbon fibre spheres) and 8" drive units, and I'm aiming for a crossover of 300Hz. Currently I'm building the second amp I'll need for them to work actively.
I'll post some pics when it's all done.
Home automation
Dean has adapted the pc to his home automation and media distribution strategy and it's just awesome
. Hopefully, we won't suffer any posts dissing this worthy diy effort as geek-gone-crazy or too extreme or not good enough hifi.
Dean, I'm curious, have you experimented with the bandwidth of your balanced twisted pair distribution system? I don't suppose there's any chance it could achieve whole-house s/pdif digital distribution is there? Your in-wall GC amps could include dacs and your in-wall speakers could be well-designed full-rangers and then watch out! Are your touchscreens all embedded windows xp pc's networked by ethernet? Have you thought about including radio distribution? Are you using CAT-5 or -6 for twisted pair runs?
It turns out that my recent BrianGT GC amp was for a similar application to Dean's, although not as extreme, just the kitchen. That system is based on Linux and can already play decent background music in the kitchen through a pair of nice in-ceiling speakers that I placed there a few years ago just in case. My intent is to design/build a small wireless remote control to communicate with the closet pc to change sound tracks and switch radio stations. But most of the work remains ahead on this little bit of fun. My wife doesn't like touchscreens in her decor so we're going for the wireless, inconspicuous approach.
Dean, have you spent any of your obviously huge diy and ndiy resources on hifi? Can you comment on audiophility potential of the pc?
Spartacus, looking forward to your pics!
Still looking for someone with experience to comment on decaffeinated (that's low jitter) pc sound. We've got skeptics in the audience and so far they're all being scared off by how much work all this pc stuff appears to take!
-Robert
Dean has adapted the pc to his home automation and media distribution strategy and it's just awesome
. Hopefully, we won't suffer any posts dissing this worthy diy effort as geek-gone-crazy or too extreme or not good enough hifi. Dean, I'm curious, have you experimented with the bandwidth of your balanced twisted pair distribution system? I don't suppose there's any chance it could achieve whole-house s/pdif digital distribution is there? Your in-wall GC amps could include dacs and your in-wall speakers could be well-designed full-rangers and then watch out! Are your touchscreens all embedded windows xp pc's networked by ethernet? Have you thought about including radio distribution? Are you using CAT-5 or -6 for twisted pair runs?
It turns out that my recent BrianGT GC amp was for a similar application to Dean's, although not as extreme, just the kitchen. That system is based on Linux and can already play decent background music in the kitchen through a pair of nice in-ceiling speakers that I placed there a few years ago just in case. My intent is to design/build a small wireless remote control to communicate with the closet pc to change sound tracks and switch radio stations. But most of the work remains ahead on this little bit of fun. My wife doesn't like touchscreens in her decor so we're going for the wireless, inconspicuous approach.
Dean, have you spent any of your obviously huge diy and ndiy resources on hifi? Can you comment on audiophility potential of the pc?
Spartacus, looking forward to your pics!
Still looking for someone with experience to comment on decaffeinated (that's low jitter) pc sound. We've got skeptics in the audience and so far they're all being scared off by how much work all this pc stuff appears to take!
-Robert
Rob, this guy has built a TDA1545 based DAC with it's own clock, and slaved his sound card (RME digi96) to it. Looks interesting.
http://peufeu.free.fr/audio/extremist_dac/
Can't think of any more relevant links at the moment, but if I do I'll post 'em.
http://peufeu.free.fr/audio/extremist_dac/
Can't think of any more relevant links at the moment, but if I do I'll post 'em.
Re: Home automation
You must have read over his post a little too quickly.
He is using his soundcard as the DAC, then sending the audio in analog over the twisted pair lines (balanced).
It appears his touchscreens are controlled by the PIC micros, not a PC, which then feed the data via RS232 to the main PC.
Some good reading there....
RFScheer said:
You must have read over his post a little too quickly.
He is using his soundcard as the DAC, then sending the audio in analog over the twisted pair lines (balanced).
It appears his touchscreens are controlled by the PIC micros, not a PC, which then feed the data via RS232 to the main PC.
Some good reading there....
Re: Episode 2
But not as a hifi system.
Fighting talk eh ?
RFScheer,
This pc building stuff is diy "lite". Between the colour coding and the icons one can barely go wrong these days.It is barely one step removed from board-swapping. Any eejit can shove a few cards into a box but it's a wee bit trickier setting up DMA transfers with now't but an AVR, FPGA and a harddisk.
ray.
RFScheer said:
But not as a hifi system.
RFScheer said:
That is if there are any diy'ers in the zone.
-Robert
Fighting talk eh ?
RFScheer,
This pc building stuff is diy "lite". Between the colour coding and the icons one can barely go wrong these days.It is barely one step removed from board-swapping. Any eejit can shove a few cards into a box but it's a wee bit trickier setting up DMA transfers with now't but an AVR, FPGA and a harddisk.
ray.
War and Peace
Spartacus,
Good link. I will try to get an interview here with Peufeu because I know NOT ENOUGH of these lead-poisoned disc-heads will go look at his awesome site on their own
Besides, he hasn't yet reported on the results of his synchronous reclocking (afaik).
MWP,
I may not be very funny, but I can read ok
. I know deandob routes his music around the house on analog twisted pair. Was just curious if this distribution system has way more bandwidth than 20kHz, that's all. After all several Mbps DSL is routed up to ~3 miles over twisted pair through a fairly hostile environment. Truly, it may be possible for him to route s/pdif. Did I miss something?
Ray appears to be on the brink of being interested, I can feel it. Maybe Peufeu will convince him
.
-Robert
Spartacus,
Good link. I will try to get an interview here with Peufeu because I know NOT ENOUGH of these lead-poisoned disc-heads will go look at his awesome site on their own
Besides, he hasn't yet reported on the results of his synchronous reclocking (afaik). MWP,
I may not be very funny, but I can read ok
. I know deandob routes his music around the house on analog twisted pair. Was just curious if this distribution system has way more bandwidth than 20kHz, that's all. After all several Mbps DSL is routed up to ~3 miles over twisted pair through a fairly hostile environment. Truly, it may be possible for him to route s/pdif. Did I miss something?Ray appears to be on the brink of being interested, I can feel it. Maybe Peufeu will convince him
.-Robert
PC for audio distribution
No, the system was specifically designed for audio band distribution.
The touchscreens I use are 16 3Com Audrey devices, they used to be sold as internet appliances back in 2001 but did not sell well, so I picked them up for $200 (Australian $) each. They run the QNX operating system (a real time variant of Unix) which I have programmed the front end software in C with GUI extensions (sort of like Visual Basic but using C). The Audreys are actually PC hardware in a small form factor with a 640x480 colour touchscreen - excellent value and fun to play with. They are also a nice peice of industrial design so my wife is happy to have them around the house, they add a high tech look to the place. For more info on these devices see www.audreyhacking.com
If I had to do this project again I would use a faster touchscreen with better audio circuits (the audrey has an onboard soundcard but quality is average) and distribute the audio as a stream over Ethernet.
I have some pretty grand plans for the PC as the hub of the home theatre as well, and plan to recycle some of the designs I have used for the audio distribution. I also believe that if a PC is built specifically for ultra-high fidelity audio reproduction then you should be able to equal any high end system. There are some great tips in the other posts in this thread about how to do that, although some care is needed to ensure that you optimise the sound quality. Its not just about sound quality, the convenience, integration & additional features make a HTPC just to compelling to ignore. The PC as an audio device has a great future, Intel & Microsoft have just released the new base specification for future PC audio systems to replace the PC-97 audio spec. If you are interested in HTPC then you must browse the Home Theatre PC section on www.avsforum.com.
Specifically my plans are to use one of the new digital amps to connect via SPDIF to a HTPC for the living room, and I plan to build a pretty extreme audio PC for the home theatre, at this stage using dual TDA1541 S2 DAC chips I have sitting waiting to be built (probably using the DAC clock to sync the clock on a PC soundcard). Check out the specs on this new soundcard, looks like just the thing for a top end audio PC:
http://www.emu.com/products/product...ry=754&nav=spec
Regards,
Dean
No, the system was specifically designed for audio band distribution.
The touchscreens I use are 16 3Com Audrey devices, they used to be sold as internet appliances back in 2001 but did not sell well, so I picked them up for $200 (Australian $) each. They run the QNX operating system (a real time variant of Unix) which I have programmed the front end software in C with GUI extensions (sort of like Visual Basic but using C). The Audreys are actually PC hardware in a small form factor with a 640x480 colour touchscreen - excellent value and fun to play with. They are also a nice peice of industrial design so my wife is happy to have them around the house, they add a high tech look to the place. For more info on these devices see www.audreyhacking.com
If I had to do this project again I would use a faster touchscreen with better audio circuits (the audrey has an onboard soundcard but quality is average) and distribute the audio as a stream over Ethernet.
I have some pretty grand plans for the PC as the hub of the home theatre as well, and plan to recycle some of the designs I have used for the audio distribution. I also believe that if a PC is built specifically for ultra-high fidelity audio reproduction then you should be able to equal any high end system. There are some great tips in the other posts in this thread about how to do that, although some care is needed to ensure that you optimise the sound quality. Its not just about sound quality, the convenience, integration & additional features make a HTPC just to compelling to ignore. The PC as an audio device has a great future, Intel & Microsoft have just released the new base specification for future PC audio systems to replace the PC-97 audio spec. If you are interested in HTPC then you must browse the Home Theatre PC section on www.avsforum.com.
Specifically my plans are to use one of the new digital amps to connect via SPDIF to a HTPC for the living room, and I plan to build a pretty extreme audio PC for the home theatre, at this stage using dual TDA1541 S2 DAC chips I have sitting waiting to be built (probably using the DAC clock to sync the clock on a PC soundcard). Check out the specs on this new soundcard, looks like just the thing for a top end audio PC:
http://www.emu.com/products/product...ry=754&nav=spec
Regards,
Dean
Outstanding
deandob,
Your posts and obviously your projects are much appreciated.
http://www.emu.com/products/product...ry=754&nav=spec is not working btw.
-Robert
deandob,
Your posts and obviously your projects are much appreciated.
http://www.emu.com/products/product...ry=754&nav=spec is not working btw.
-Robert
.Episode 2 - Jitter Benchmarking
Ok, here's Episode 2.
Let's see if we can make parametric comparisons between PC and disc music players that would establish whether OR NOT we can expect equivalent basic quality of reproduction from the PC.
Please refer to the Nov 2000 article by John Atkinson in Stereophile on the RME Digi 96/8 soundcard. Look carefully at the measurement section of that article.
Is that article a good starting point for comparison?
By his measurement technique and with his setup (which I hope someone with appropriate expertise will comment on), he published:
dynamic range ~ 91dB
jitter ~ 250ps
That's looking into the analog outputs of the external dac with a National Instruments A/D card and calculating the parameters with Miller Audio Research jitter analysis software.
Is this a reasonable basis to begin comparisons? If so, what do we require to remove doubt that the PC can equal the disc transport?
-Robert
Ok, here's Episode 2.
Let's see if we can make parametric comparisons between PC and disc music players that would establish whether OR NOT we can expect equivalent basic quality of reproduction from the PC.
Please refer to the Nov 2000 article by John Atkinson in Stereophile on the RME Digi 96/8 soundcard. Look carefully at the measurement section of that article.
Is that article a good starting point for comparison?
By his measurement technique and with his setup (which I hope someone with appropriate expertise will comment on), he published:
dynamic range ~ 91dB
jitter ~ 250ps
That's looking into the analog outputs of the external dac with a National Instruments A/D card and calculating the parameters with Miller Audio Research jitter analysis software.
Is this a reasonable basis to begin comparisons? If so, what do we require to remove doubt that the PC can equal the disc transport?
-Robert
Re: Episode 2 - Jitter Benchmarking
You should split this into two sections... source and DAC.
The source being the PC/CDP with I2S or SPDIF out.
There is no reason why you couldnt tweak a PC/soundcard far enough that the I2S or SPDIF signal coming out is as pure as a CDP.
Just have to do the normal digital mods (power supply, clock, etc).
As for the DAC... well really anything goes there... its up to you.
Im convinced that a PC can be a HQ source... one day i might set one up to prove it.
RFScheer said:
You should split this into two sections... source and DAC.
The source being the PC/CDP with I2S or SPDIF out.
There is no reason why you couldnt tweak a PC/soundcard far enough that the I2S or SPDIF signal coming out is as pure as a CDP.
Just have to do the normal digital mods (power supply, clock, etc).
As for the DAC... well really anything goes there... its up to you.
Im convinced that a PC can be a HQ source... one day i might set one up to prove it.
Changing posts in real time
MWP,
I'm trying to edit as fast as you edit
One of the continuing problems with audio is the lack of reference on what is great sound. I don't want to work for years on a PC music system trying to improve dynamic range from 91dB to 96dB and THEN find out afterwards that disc players achieve 120dB.
I know that none of these parameters tells us much about the actual quality of sound, but it's the potential that is of concern here atm.
What numbers to we need for the PC to start convincing people in droves?
-Robert
MWP,
I'm trying to edit as fast as you edit
One of the continuing problems with audio is the lack of reference on what is great sound. I don't want to work for years on a PC music system trying to improve dynamic range from 91dB to 96dB and THEN find out afterwards that disc players achieve 120dB.
I know that none of these parameters tells us much about the actual quality of sound, but it's the potential that is of concern here atm.
What numbers to we need for the PC to start convincing people in droves?
-Robert
Re: Changing posts in real time
As far as im concered, figures like those dont matter... because thats somthing that the DAC is responsible for.
If we can get a PC's I2S/SPDIF out to be bit-perfect with low enough jitter (to excelent CDP standards), then i would consider it to be a very good source.
The DAC determines the rest.
RFScheer said:
As far as im concered, figures like those dont matter... because thats somthing that the DAC is responsible for.
If we can get a PC's I2S/SPDIF out to be bit-perfect with low enough jitter (to excelent CDP standards), then i would consider it to be a very good source.
The DAC determines the rest.
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