I know people who think nothing of going for a drive to the
country on the weekend. Since a single horsepower is around
700 watts, and 100 HP is 70,000 watts, I consider that the
reality of energy consumption has more to do with getting your
value for the expenditure. Is listening to a 200 watt (idle)
amplifier worth 1% of driving your car around?
Did you leave your porchlight on all night last night?
/pass/: already lives in the country - Foresthill
country on the weekend. Since a single horsepower is around
700 watts, and 100 HP is 70,000 watts, I consider that the
reality of energy consumption has more to do with getting your
value for the expenditure. Is listening to a 200 watt (idle)
amplifier worth 1% of driving your car around?
Did you leave your porchlight on all night last night?
/pass/: already lives in the country - Foresthill
Unfortunately, people all over the planet exhibit very short
term thinking. Some in the U.S. think that the Rapture will
overtake us before environmental problems. Some in "3rd
world" countries are eager to enjoy some of this excess before
it goes away.
Fortunately, music itself requires very little electricity.
/pass/: actually optimistic about the long haul, but not too
pleased lately.
term thinking. Some in the U.S. think that the Rapture will
overtake us before environmental problems. Some in "3rd
world" countries are eager to enjoy some of this excess before
it goes away.
Fortunately, music itself requires very little electricity.
/pass/: actually optimistic about the long haul, but not too
pleased lately.
A friend of mine put it brilliantly:
The conservatives won the election...but they aren't taking it very well.
This hostility is wearing thin. Very thin, indeed. I'm not half as worried about terrorists as I am about my fellow Americans. Half the country has gone insane, and is angry with the rest for not going along with them. (Whooo! The hate mail I got over The Bambi Project [a story published a month or two ago] is amazing. People acted as though I'd insulted their grandmothers. Quite interesting, the things they read into that story.)
In the meantime, I don't mind running class A. It's less than the power bill we incur lighting for safety's sake. It shakes out like this--you set your prorities, either heat or sound, and design (or buy) accordingly. Yes, there are decent-sounding AB amps, but they will fall when placed next to a class A amp.
Or, to put it another way, your brain runs on roughly twenty watts of power. Take a clock, make note of the time you're spending worrying about how to cheat Mother Nature by not running class A. Do the math; figure out what you're 'spending' by running that twenty watts in a futile attempt to change the rules of the game, then apply it towards the power bill for your stereo.
Fringe benefit...you get pleasure out of listening to music on the stereo.
Grey
The conservatives won the election...but they aren't taking it very well.
This hostility is wearing thin. Very thin, indeed. I'm not half as worried about terrorists as I am about my fellow Americans. Half the country has gone insane, and is angry with the rest for not going along with them. (Whooo! The hate mail I got over The Bambi Project [a story published a month or two ago] is amazing. People acted as though I'd insulted their grandmothers. Quite interesting, the things they read into that story.)
In the meantime, I don't mind running class A. It's less than the power bill we incur lighting for safety's sake. It shakes out like this--you set your prorities, either heat or sound, and design (or buy) accordingly. Yes, there are decent-sounding AB amps, but they will fall when placed next to a class A amp.
Or, to put it another way, your brain runs on roughly twenty watts of power. Take a clock, make note of the time you're spending worrying about how to cheat Mother Nature by not running class A. Do the math; figure out what you're 'spending' by running that twenty watts in a futile attempt to change the rules of the game, then apply it towards the power bill for your stereo.
Fringe benefit...you get pleasure out of listening to music on the stereo.
Grey
Well there's two sides to that pancake isn't there?
It seems to me people all over the world could stand to be a little bit more agreeable when it comes to disagreeing. The present political polarization in the U.S. serves as a good example, where so often peoples passion for their own beliefs takes a backseat to the anger and contempt they have for differing views.
Disagreement--even anger--is one thing. Intimidation, threats, and violence are another matter entirely. It's gone beyond simple differences of opinion here in the hinterlands and that's not something that can be easily wished away.
What comes next? Read history books for hints.
Regarding the amplifier bias/heat question, folks want to have their cake and eat it too; they want the sound quality of a class A amplifier without the heat. It's a noble goal from any number of perspectives. While there may be an amplifier topology that will give the same sound quality as a class A circuit at lower bias currents, I don't think it's been invented yet and I'm not holding my breath.
The best way to decide whether you "need" class A in order to be satisfied with music reproduction is to build an amp with large heatsinks and a large power supply. Then play with the bias. If you cannot hear--or do not care about (some sound attributes simply aren't important to some people) the difference in sound quality, then by all means back off on the bias and enjoy. If you find that class A brings something to the table that makes the music more enjoyable, then plan on leaving the bias high. Changes in circuit topology can and do make a difference in the sound quality, but the improvement due to an increase in bias is a near universal thing.
Grey
What comes next? Read history books for hints.
Regarding the amplifier bias/heat question, folks want to have their cake and eat it too; they want the sound quality of a class A amplifier without the heat. It's a noble goal from any number of perspectives. While there may be an amplifier topology that will give the same sound quality as a class A circuit at lower bias currents, I don't think it's been invented yet and I'm not holding my breath.
The best way to decide whether you "need" class A in order to be satisfied with music reproduction is to build an amp with large heatsinks and a large power supply. Then play with the bias. If you cannot hear--or do not care about (some sound attributes simply aren't important to some people) the difference in sound quality, then by all means back off on the bias and enjoy. If you find that class A brings something to the table that makes the music more enjoyable, then plan on leaving the bias high. Changes in circuit topology can and do make a difference in the sound quality, but the improvement due to an increase in bias is a near universal thing.
Grey
I'm not clear what your post means. It seems self-contradictory.
There are only so many ways to tell people to go class A if they want the best possible sound quality. Yet folks still want to believe that they can get the same quality of sound for less money, with less heat, and with less hardware. Of course, we live in a world where people are content with MP3 as source material, so I guess in that context the class of an amplifier is no longer relevant. Convenience wins over quality, particularly if it's free, pirated music.
By all means, build chip amps or class B discrete amps if you wish, but try to maintain a realistic attitude about their performance relative to a well executed class A design; they won't be as good. Price, power, and heat are valid objections to class A, but the simple fact of the matter is that they sound better, and for that matter usually measure better.
The choice is yours.
Grey
There are only so many ways to tell people to go class A if they want the best possible sound quality. Yet folks still want to believe that they can get the same quality of sound for less money, with less heat, and with less hardware. Of course, we live in a world where people are content with MP3 as source material, so I guess in that context the class of an amplifier is no longer relevant. Convenience wins over quality, particularly if it's free, pirated music.
By all means, build chip amps or class B discrete amps if you wish, but try to maintain a realistic attitude about their performance relative to a well executed class A design; they won't be as good. Price, power, and heat are valid objections to class A, but the simple fact of the matter is that they sound better, and for that matter usually measure better.
The choice is yours.
Grey
GRollins said:
Yes, the choice is ours. We all know this. So, the comment has no special meaning.
I respect Nelson Pass's and your experience saying that the class A is the leader. I however do not like to smash off younger diyers' dreams and their craetive efforts for the less-heat-class-A-sound.
Nelson Pass said:I'm not here to smash anybody's dreams, but I do observe that
efforts I've made to reduce dissipation usually have received
a cool reception.
The simple explanation for that is that most of the members of the Pass fanclub are also members of the overkill and the simplicity club.....the more extreme the better, just look at the most popular PASSDIY design, the SOZ, what was it, something like 4% efficiency
Magura
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