I fully agree, particularly because I know through my website a lot of people owning a THRESHOLD amp made during the Nelson PASS era, and still using it every day ... Personally, I am still in love with my SA/6e monoblocs...
I also agree wit
but nevertheless, because I know the story of THRESHOLD in FRANCE during the years just prior the departure of Nelson from Threshold, I would to point out one thing:
during these years (i.e 5-7 years before the departure of N.P.), the retail prices of the Threshold gear in France were absolutely monstruous, and had nothing to do with what they should have been compared with the US costs (i.e US cost + customs taxes + shiping + other taxes +...). We are not talking about 10%, 20% or 30% more, but we are talking about totally stupid prices...
This was due to the non less monstruous margins enforced by the French importer(s)... The dealers were most of the time well qualified, and really customer oriented, but it was simply impossible to sell a decent volume of Threshold gear because the dealers had to pay a too high price themselves (at this time, I had very close relationships with a few dealers...).
The goal of this story is just to encourage PASS LABS to deeply verify that the local pricing policies are coherent enough to not considerably reduce the volumes of their sales, because this had been a major cause of the low sales of Threshold in France at this period.
And by saying this, I believe that they are right with the business model, i.e selling Pass gear through well qualified dealers (just have a look at the local importers...).
Just my 2 cents contribution...
Long life to N.P & Pass Labs...
Tks
There's more to building a dealer network than meets the eye. Some random observations:
1) You have to have enough dealers to cover the target geographical area, but not so many that they are in direct competition with each other.
2) The dealer should be willing to move the product. This is not a trivial statement. Take the current market, where the super-dealers may have as many as ten different solid state lines for sale. How much attention does any one product line receive? On a smaller scale, the dealer who sold me my Threshold amps also sold Mark Levinson. Obviously those two lines were direct competitors. There was a bit of a conflict there.
3) The dealer must be educated, and as a corollary, must be willing to be educated. Again, not a trivial point. Many potential customers could care less about the details of a given product. But you'll always find some who are interested. The dealer must be willing and able to answer (correctly) any reasonable question put to them by the customer. I can't count the number of times I've been put off, given inaccurate answers, lied to, etc. There are dealers who are not passionate about audio--they only see it as a means to a paycheck.
4) A dealer must be on sound financial footing. Giving a product line to a dealer who is on the verge of bankruptcy is a bad idea. You'll end up with a few orphaned pieces in the area with no local support. The time, effort, and money spent on that dealer were effectively wasted.
That's far from an exhaustive list. It's a daunting task. I gather that Pass Labs intends to deal directly with the dealers themselves rather than use representatives. That will increase the burden on the folks in Foresthill, as the phones will ring more often, necessitating a warm body to answer.
I see a lot of work ahead for the Pass Labs crew.
Grey
1) You have to have enough dealers to cover the target geographical area, but not so many that they are in direct competition with each other.
2) The dealer should be willing to move the product. This is not a trivial statement. Take the current market, where the super-dealers may have as many as ten different solid state lines for sale. How much attention does any one product line receive? On a smaller scale, the dealer who sold me my Threshold amps also sold Mark Levinson. Obviously those two lines were direct competitors. There was a bit of a conflict there.
3) The dealer must be educated, and as a corollary, must be willing to be educated. Again, not a trivial point. Many potential customers could care less about the details of a given product. But you'll always find some who are interested. The dealer must be willing and able to answer (correctly) any reasonable question put to them by the customer. I can't count the number of times I've been put off, given inaccurate answers, lied to, etc. There are dealers who are not passionate about audio--they only see it as a means to a paycheck.
4) A dealer must be on sound financial footing. Giving a product line to a dealer who is on the verge of bankruptcy is a bad idea. You'll end up with a few orphaned pieces in the area with no local support. The time, effort, and money spent on that dealer were effectively wasted.
That's far from an exhaustive list. It's a daunting task. I gather that Pass Labs intends to deal directly with the dealers themselves rather than use representatives. That will increase the burden on the folks in Foresthill, as the phones will ring more often, necessitating a warm body to answer.
I see a lot of work ahead for the Pass Labs crew.
Grey
GRollins said:
That's what we already have. Discount Internet sales means
that the customer has to get the information and support from us
directly. We don't mind that at all, but it does raise the question
of what the dealer would add to the equation.
Our intention is to have a distribution environment which
supports the traditional "two channel" dealer. If it takes takes
a long time and/or results in a small domestic network, I believe
we can afford to do that.
I purchased my Infocus projector through the Infocus web site. Increasingly, I find myself looking directly at the manufacturer's products through their web site and purchasing in this manner.
Could Passlabs do this? (poorly written, sorry) I mean, could Passlabs sell in this manner. Of course, you could purchase an Infocus projector from their site.
Could Passlabs do this? (poorly written, sorry) I mean, could Passlabs sell in this manner. Of course, you could purchase an Infocus projector from their site.
Nelson Pass said:
Bloody little, at least in my estimation. The dealer should provide for all sales-related content and front line support for problems after the sale. Most dealers do not have dedicated in-house service, but they should surely be able to handle the odd blown fuse and operational questions.
There's more to it than writing the sales ticket and pocketing the cash.
I always made damned sure I knew anything I was selling, inside and out, as well as the general outlines of competing gear sold in my area so I could contrast and compare when necessary. Online retailers, even with best intentions, can only go so far. And if their intentions are less than best...? Although they may list your product, they won't move many units and they can't pop the top to look for blown fuses after the sale.
Direct sales would seem to be an attractive option, but it's one of those things that is more difficult than it would seem. Someone in the market to buy a multi-thousand dollar piece of equipment is understandably going to want to "kick the tires" before purchase. If you have a unit sitting in the dealership downtown, it's not that difficult for the prospective buyer to arrange to hear it. But if all the units are sitting in California, a buyer in Maine will have to go to Pass Labs (difficult and expensive) or arrange to have one drop shipped to him for evaluation (difficult and expensive). It can be done, but it's not an optimal solution. What do you do with a unit that's been shipped out for audition eight or nine times? It has a few unavoidable nicks and scratches. Even if it works perfectly, people expect even a loaner to look brand new. Just one of those human psychological quirks. Reno Hifi can only move so many units over ebay. Refurbishing a unit cosmetically is an unnecessary and annoying expense. Add to that the all too human tendency to treat something on loan a little less than carefully (hey, let's have a party Friday night while I've still got this X-1000 hooked up...) and you've got a recipe for...if not disaster, at least an uneven seller/customer relationship.
We're a gregarious species (most of us--I'm the antisocial misfit who'd rather spend his time alone, but then authors tend to be that way) and face to face contact makes the whole process work more smoothly.
Grey
With regards to direct, online sales, I'm of the mind that the consumer will be well acquainted with Pass products and reputation and not at all bashful about purchasing online.
If the consumer is a "tire-kicker", he/she is stuck locating a nearby, or not so nearby, dealer.
Judging from the popularity of the Internet, online sales has and will continue to remain very popular. I base this on my desire and awareness--I no longer purchase electronic gear outside the Internet.
If the consumer is a "tire-kicker", he/she is stuck locating a nearby, or not so nearby, dealer.
Judging from the popularity of the Internet, online sales has and will continue to remain very popular. I base this on my desire and awareness--I no longer purchase electronic gear outside the Internet.
My favorite Italian restaurant (Luigi's) had a great bottle of wine
that I usually ordered. It was not cheap, particularly with
restaurant mark-up, but it was perfect, and had become a
tradition for my wife and I.
One day it was no longer available there, and when I asked
Lou the owner why, he explained that it was now available at
the local Sam's Club (a discount warehouse store) for the same
price he paid for it. Now I have to drink a lesser wine there.
On a sadder note, Lou passed away about three weeks ago.
that I usually ordered. It was not cheap, particularly with
restaurant mark-up, but it was perfect, and had become a
tradition for my wife and I.
One day it was no longer available there, and when I asked
Lou the owner why, he explained that it was now available at
the local Sam's Club (a discount warehouse store) for the same
price he paid for it. Now I have to drink a lesser wine there.
On a sadder note, Lou passed away about three weeks ago.
At least with the Sam's here, I find that the wines are frequently older vintages. So what's the problem, Grey? Well, often they weren't stored properly. They're 'off' in one way or another. That's not to say that we never buy wine at Sam's...only that we've been burned and are wary.
Which leads to a conundrum...
As a consumer, I like low prices and if warehouse stores or internet retail will get the job done, then I'm all for it. However, I expect certain minimum standards to be met. I don't want dead wine, for instance. If I can't find good merchandise, then I'll pay higher prices elsewhere in an effort to have my standards met.
Now, the thing is that a fair percentage of the buying public no longer cares about quality. Knock-off watch for ten bucks? Sure, give it here. Rather than pay a couple of hundred for the real thing, they'll get one that looks like it and who cares if it only lasts a year? By then the fashion will have changed and they'll buy a knock-off of whatever is in style at that particular nanosecond.
There used to be a correcting mechanism in that if you bought an imitation and were discovered, everyone looked down on you. Now no one cares, because they've all got knock-offs, too. It's all about image. Superficial appearances.
I seem to recall someone selling look-alike Pass Labs gear not too long ago. I wouldn't be caught dead buying something like that. Even if it's exactly the same circuit and the chassis looks the same, I would know it's counterfeit, and I wouldn't be satisfied. I mean, really, what do you tell your friends? Hey, come drool over my look-alike Pass Labs amp? My almost-the-real-thing amp? My I'm-too-lazy-to-save-up-for-the-real-thing amp?
What's their appropriate response? Almost-real drool?
Harrumph!
Set aside the fact that I build a lot of my own gear these days. I don't do turntables, for instance. The idea of an imitation of whatever the fave turntable is these days just wouldn't make my steeter piff, if you catch my drift. There's an intellectual dishonesty evident in someone who gets a kick out of owning something that's not what it pretends to be.
If, by god, I'm going to get my jollies with an inflatable doll, I'm not going to tell anyone (particularly myself) that it's as good as the real thing.
And I certainly ain't going to brag about it.
Sometimes you can't afford the real thing. I might want a $100k turntable. But I'll get by with my trusty old Goldmund Studio rather than take a counterfeit of something better.
Which brings me back to the dealer thing (sneaky the way I did that, eh?). If you're getting an amp from a real-live, honest to goodness dealer, you know you're getting real product that meets certain standards.
Not some sweatshop junk that comes apart at the seams like the T-shirts I got from Sam's a while back.
Grey
Which leads to a conundrum...
As a consumer, I like low prices and if warehouse stores or internet retail will get the job done, then I'm all for it. However, I expect certain minimum standards to be met. I don't want dead wine, for instance. If I can't find good merchandise, then I'll pay higher prices elsewhere in an effort to have my standards met.
Now, the thing is that a fair percentage of the buying public no longer cares about quality. Knock-off watch for ten bucks? Sure, give it here. Rather than pay a couple of hundred for the real thing, they'll get one that looks like it and who cares if it only lasts a year? By then the fashion will have changed and they'll buy a knock-off of whatever is in style at that particular nanosecond.
There used to be a correcting mechanism in that if you bought an imitation and were discovered, everyone looked down on you. Now no one cares, because they've all got knock-offs, too. It's all about image. Superficial appearances.
I seem to recall someone selling look-alike Pass Labs gear not too long ago. I wouldn't be caught dead buying something like that. Even if it's exactly the same circuit and the chassis looks the same, I would know it's counterfeit, and I wouldn't be satisfied. I mean, really, what do you tell your friends? Hey, come drool over my look-alike Pass Labs amp? My almost-the-real-thing amp? My I'm-too-lazy-to-save-up-for-the-real-thing amp?
What's their appropriate response? Almost-real drool?
Harrumph!
Set aside the fact that I build a lot of my own gear these days. I don't do turntables, for instance. The idea of an imitation of whatever the fave turntable is these days just wouldn't make my steeter piff, if you catch my drift. There's an intellectual dishonesty evident in someone who gets a kick out of owning something that's not what it pretends to be.
If, by god, I'm going to get my jollies with an inflatable doll, I'm not going to tell anyone (particularly myself) that it's as good as the real thing.
And I certainly ain't going to brag about it.
Sometimes you can't afford the real thing. I might want a $100k turntable. But I'll get by with my trusty old Goldmund Studio rather than take a counterfeit of something better.
Which brings me back to the dealer thing (sneaky the way I did that, eh?). If you're getting an amp from a real-live, honest to goodness dealer, you know you're getting real product that meets certain standards.
Not some sweatshop junk that comes apart at the seams like the T-shirts I got from Sam's a while back.
Grey
I bought a Pass amp back in 98 from a dealer who let me take the amp home for the weekend before I commited to it. If I cannot hear a product in the context of my room in my system before I make the purchase, I'm not interested.
This is easier to do with a local dealer than the manufacturer, especially when you live outside the USA. And even if the were no customs and import concerns, some of these amps are quite BIG and HEAVY. Dealers have a place IMO.
J
This is easier to do with a local dealer than the manufacturer, especially when you live outside the USA. And even if the were no customs and import concerns, some of these amps are quite BIG and HEAVY. Dealers have a place IMO.
J
Of course dealers have a place: I hear it's being warmed up as we speak!
All kidding aside, I'd have no qualms purchasing an amp from Passlabs sight unseen. The reason? I've built and listened to Nelson's designs. This is called "doing your homework".
I purchase reputable brand names online. I've not been disappointed.
All kidding aside, I'd have no qualms purchasing an amp from Passlabs sight unseen. The reason? I've built and listened to Nelson's designs. This is called "doing your homework".
I purchase reputable brand names online. I've not been disappointed.
This thread reminds me of something hilarious I saw on the onion a few weeks back.
http://www.theonion.com/content/amvo/circuit_city_cuts_3_400_overpaid
http://www.theonion.com/content/amvo/circuit_city_cuts_3_400_overpaid
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