Laughter here
>> that you put your missus on wheels ....... <<
Wifey just wagged her finger at me and said -
"now don't you be getting any ideas!"
Who ? Me ? What ?
Maybe I could suggest that she take a sunshine holiday with her sister ?
No !
I'm not allowed "any ideas".
Cheers ........... Graham.
(Hope WAF is not too far off topic.)
>> that you put your missus on wheels ....... <<
Wifey just wagged her finger at me and said -
"now don't you be getting any ideas!"
Who ? Me ? What ?
Maybe I could suggest that she take a sunshine holiday with her sister ?
No !
I'm not allowed "any ideas".
Cheers ........... Graham.
(Hope WAF is not too far off topic.)
j-low
Hello,
think about my TUBA for me the best JX92s enclosure.
The j-low horn ist to short to much mouth, for the size less bass.
did someone read
from german Audiotreff the story of j-low horn:
Meine ersten Hörversuche mit den Jordan JX 92S in meinem brandneuen J-Low Horn nach Nelson Pass sind nicht gerade berauschend. Das hat mich überrascht, da der Jordan Treiber ansonsten sehr gut klingen kann und weil der Autor des Bauvorschlags ja in der DIY-Szene einen sehr guten Namen (!) hat.
Das kleine Chassis baut anscheinend nicht genügend Druck auf, um vernünftig auf das große Horn zu arbeiten. Das war jedenfalls eine mögliche Erklärung von Daniel Ciesinger, der sie gestern auch gehört hat. Bevor ich das relativ teure Birken-Multiplex-Gehäuse wieder zu Kleinholz mache, möchte ich vielleicht mal noch größere Chassis probieren. Ein Vorschlag von Alexander Kriegel war, einmal den Beyma 8agn zu testen.
Hat jemand vielleicht zufällig solche Teile über? Wäre für diesbezügliche günstige Angebote und Ideen dankbar. Kann aber auch sein, dass dieses Projekt ausnahmsweise mal ein 'Schuss in den Ofen' war und sich weitere Mühe nicht lohnt.
Translation google:
My first hearing tests with Jordan JX 92S in my brand new J-Low Pass horn after Nelson are not exactly exhilarating. That surprised me, since the Jordan drivers otherwise very good sound and because the author of the Bauvorschlags so in the DIY scene, a very good name (!).
The small chassis builds apparently not enough pressure on to sensibly on the big horn to work. That was, however, a possible explanation by Daniel Ciesinger, they also heard yesterday. Before I the relatively expensive birch multiplex housing back on small wooden doing, I would probably still times larger chassis try. A proposal by Alexander Kriegel was once the Beyma 8agn test.
Did someone might accidentally take over parts? If for any good offers and ideas grateful. Can also be that this project exceptionally times a 'shot in the oven', and further effort is not worthwhile.
Hello,
think about my TUBA for me the best JX92s enclosure.
The j-low horn ist to short to much mouth, for the size less bass.
did someone read
from german Audiotreff the story of j-low horn:
Meine ersten Hörversuche mit den Jordan JX 92S in meinem brandneuen J-Low Horn nach Nelson Pass sind nicht gerade berauschend. Das hat mich überrascht, da der Jordan Treiber ansonsten sehr gut klingen kann und weil der Autor des Bauvorschlags ja in der DIY-Szene einen sehr guten Namen (!) hat.
Das kleine Chassis baut anscheinend nicht genügend Druck auf, um vernünftig auf das große Horn zu arbeiten. Das war jedenfalls eine mögliche Erklärung von Daniel Ciesinger, der sie gestern auch gehört hat. Bevor ich das relativ teure Birken-Multiplex-Gehäuse wieder zu Kleinholz mache, möchte ich vielleicht mal noch größere Chassis probieren. Ein Vorschlag von Alexander Kriegel war, einmal den Beyma 8agn zu testen.
Hat jemand vielleicht zufällig solche Teile über? Wäre für diesbezügliche günstige Angebote und Ideen dankbar. Kann aber auch sein, dass dieses Projekt ausnahmsweise mal ein 'Schuss in den Ofen' war und sich weitere Mühe nicht lohnt.
Translation google:
My first hearing tests with Jordan JX 92S in my brand new J-Low Pass horn after Nelson are not exactly exhilarating. That surprised me, since the Jordan drivers otherwise very good sound and because the author of the Bauvorschlags so in the DIY scene, a very good name (!).
The small chassis builds apparently not enough pressure on to sensibly on the big horn to work. That was, however, a possible explanation by Daniel Ciesinger, they also heard yesterday. Before I the relatively expensive birch multiplex housing back on small wooden doing, I would probably still times larger chassis try. A proposal by Alexander Kriegel was once the Beyma 8agn test.
Did someone might accidentally take over parts? If for any good offers and ideas grateful. Can also be that this project exceptionally times a 'shot in the oven', and further effort is not worthwhile.
Attachments
And did somebody bother to read Nelson's lengthy article about the design and consider its objectives?
The J-Lo measures decently and conforms to the design criteria clearly set out. It is not intended to extract the maximum possible extension from the driver, but to provide plenty of gain down to ~50Hz (-6db), to allow louder listening levels. As you can see from the attached frequency response taken from Nelson's article, they easily achieve this. In fact, they need a high pass filter on them (or additional damping) as they provide too much gain as-is. Digitalmind seems pleased with his variation, so if you'll forgive my mentioning it Horst, I can't quite see why you're once again rubbishing somebody else's speaker design and telling them to build your own. Especially when they're happy with what they have, and you don't quite seem to have understood the objectives of the design.
The J-Lo measures decently and conforms to the design criteria clearly set out. It is not intended to extract the maximum possible extension from the driver, but to provide plenty of gain down to ~50Hz (-6db), to allow louder listening levels. As you can see from the attached frequency response taken from Nelson's article, they easily achieve this. In fact, they need a high pass filter on them (or additional damping) as they provide too much gain as-is. Digitalmind seems pleased with his variation, so if you'll forgive my mentioning it Horst, I can't quite see why you're once again rubbishing somebody else's speaker design and telling them to build your own. Especially when they're happy with what they have, and you don't quite seem to have understood the objectives of the design.
Attachments
Re: j-low
Horst,
I was very much aware of your design. I actively decided against making it, and opted for the JLow, for the following reasons:
The JLow is better documented. I have prior experience with Nelson's work (having owned an Aleph), and due to the great experience with that I trusted his work. I don't care whether or not the Tuba puts out more bass compared to size. The JLow is bigger, and bigger is better.
No, in all seriousness, I love the way the JLow looks and it's sheer insanity (by my standards). That is mostly what compelled me to build it instead of the Tuba. The two large horn mouths provide a huge sound and a lot of slam. The bass is ample and it goes plenty deep for me.
Also: All the information and documentation that Nelson has on the JLow's is completely free, contrary to your design.
I read it, and it helped me choose for the JLow. I don't mind Horst's post -- I chose for the JLow and am still happy I did. Who knows, maybe I'll build the Tuba one day.... I'm sure the JLow isn't my last project.
hm said:
Horst,
I was very much aware of your design. I actively decided against making it, and opted for the JLow, for the following reasons:
The JLow is better documented. I have prior experience with Nelson's work (having owned an Aleph), and due to the great experience with that I trusted his work. I don't care whether or not the Tuba puts out more bass compared to size. The JLow is bigger, and bigger is better.
No, in all seriousness, I love the way the JLow looks and it's sheer insanity (by my standards). That is mostly what compelled me to build it instead of the Tuba. The two large horn mouths provide a huge sound and a lot of slam. The bass is ample and it goes plenty deep for me.
Also: All the information and documentation that Nelson has on the JLow's is completely free, contrary to your design.
Scottmoose said:
I read it, and it helped me choose for the JLow. I don't mind Horst's post -- I chose for the JLow and am still happy I did. Who knows, maybe I'll build the Tuba one day.... I'm sure the JLow isn't my last project.
ach Scottmoose,
The TUBA goes down to 35 Hz and is only 30 % of the J-low Size.
And specially for you ,
it is measured and testet.
You know I like measurements more than you, you cant show a real imp or a nearfield so your discussion quality is weak, why do you show it to others again and again.
Should I bring the story again and again,
I give real tested information.
"I can't quite see why you're once again rubbishing somebody else's speaker design and telling them to build your own. "
because it is bad and my is better, thats all.
That´s like Frugel horn etc. not testet not control but you know how it sound perfect.
The TUBA goes down to 35 Hz and is only 30 % of the J-low Size.
And specially for you ,
it is measured and testet.
You know I like measurements more than you, you cant show a real imp or a nearfield so your discussion quality is weak, why do you show it to others again and again.
Should I bring the story again and again,
I give real tested information.
"I can't quite see why you're once again rubbishing somebody else's speaker design and telling them to build your own. "
because it is bad and my is better, thats all.
That´s like Frugel horn etc. not testet not control but you know how it sound perfect.
I almost built a modified J-Low 3 or 4 years ago. I had exchanged some emails with (Kent?) at Pass Labs about using a Fostex 206 or 207 (I forget) and stretching the center section to fit but only in one direction (up) thus making the two horn mouths different sizes, the smaller one on top and the larger on bottom. Those emails are lost but I seem to remember something about the uneven mouth size having two separate peaks, extending the bass.
After reading this thread I wish I would have tried it. Next time...
After reading this thread I wish I would have tried it. Next time...
And your point is...? Nelson & Dana did not design the J-lo to go down to 35Hz. It's designed to provide a large amount of gain down to 50Hz - 60Hz. Which it does. Nor was it designed to be small. It provides full horn action down to 60Hz. Technically, it could do with being 1/2 wavelength, rather than 1/4 wave long for maximum efficiency, but it doesn't need the extra -it's already got more than it needs.
Nelson has measured and tested his J-lo design -I gave you one of the FR graphs from his large article. So your point is...? (and why specially for me BTW?)
What have my preferences got to do with it? We're not talking about anything I designed.
So has Nelson -I thought you might have liked that. All in his lengthy article.
Pardon?!? Well, that says it all. What an astonishingly arrogant attitude you have toward other people. No. Your design is different, not better. Your goals were not the same as Nelson's. You wanted extension down to ~35Hz - 40Hz (or whatever). Nelson didn't. You used a hybrid between horn and QW loading, Nelson used horn-loading only. If you don't understand the difference, you're in no place to criticise. The J-Lo is certainly not a bad design. It achieves all of Nelson's design objectives, which he clearly sets out in his lengthy article, and are illustrated by the measurements he provides in it, which you normally like.
The J-lo is tested, as I've repeatedly pointed out, and the data & measurements you enjoy are provided in Nelson's lengthy article. You obviously haven't read it -here's a link: http://www.passdiy.com/pdf/j-low.pdf
I'm not sure why you are talking about the frugel-horn? (I didn't design that either) Still, as you brought it up, of course it doesn't sound perfect, in the same way that no speaker sounds perfect. Only a fool would claim any speaker does, or that their own is somehow 'better' than something else that is designed for a different purpose.
hi scotti,
i try to get your arrogant attitude,
I read it 2005, but i understand it to interpretate nelson´s text,
you don´t.
do I write so important things that you must quote me.
You remember our disput over Frugel and the other not tested speaker you speak about, you know the strange work to split
threads by the moderator, the way it happens was bad,
you write about everything, not because of your knowledge,
may be you have a profil neurose.
Why do you answer at all to my posts, are you afraid of some truth, i didn´t need your posts, but i hate your way to make my opinions bad,
i have testet and experienced knowledge,
sorry you have not much enough to critize me.
i try to get your arrogant attitude,
I read it 2005, but i understand it to interpretate nelson´s text,
you don´t.
do I write so important things that you must quote me.
You remember our disput over Frugel and the other not tested speaker you speak about, you know the strange work to split
threads by the moderator, the way it happens was bad,
you write about everything, not because of your knowledge,
may be you have a profil neurose.
Why do you answer at all to my posts, are you afraid of some truth, i didn´t need your posts, but i hate your way to make my opinions bad,
i have testet and experienced knowledge,
sorry you have not much enough to critize me.
Scottmoose said:
It does! Very much so. His writeup is indeed great.
hm said:
To be frank, I don't care if my speakers extend to 35Hz or 50Hz, or whether they are smaller or not. Seriously, I can't be bothered to worry about those things. I've heard a lot of speakers that measure perfectly, and simply sound boring and dull. The JLow is fun!
Have you built and listened to a JLow?
Constantly praising your own wares that you are selling is pretty odd in my opinion, even if you believe you are right. It may seem like false advertisement.
bassrogue said:
That sounds like a heck of a fun build! Too bad the information is lost, the idea of two horns tuned at different frequencies, using a single driver, seems like a challenge to make it work. Good stuff.
hm said:
He replies to you because you are, in his eyes, creating a false comparison. You are comparing the speakers and insisting that your creation is better while both speakers were designed with different goals in mind. I don't mind your posts -- but they are a bit pushy and could be seen as false advertisement.
I tripped over your comment about having experience. It seems like you think we have less experience than you with speakers. As for designing them -- you may be right. However, I'm pretty sure most of us have extensive experience with high end audio and sound quality in general, and we do know what we are talking about.
Please stop with the personal attacks. It won't do anything positive for the discussion.
hm - please stop advertising your commercial designs outside the Vendor's Bazaar as well.
Differential tuning is an interesting idea; Voigt looked into it back in the 1930s, but very few cabinets have been designed featuring it. Not actually that difficult in theory -just lengthy & it'll depend on what you're wanting to achieve. Tuning one which is near a reflection boundary condition higher than one away from any boundaries is one way to balance output for example (if that's what you're wanting to achieve).
Horst, my aim was simply to (politely) dispute your statement on the gentleman's build-thread that the J-lo is a bad cabinet design. As you value measurements, I pointed you toward one Nelson made, which clearly shows the cabinet achieves his design goal of gain down to a cut-off of ~50Hz (the classic 1.414 times flare-frequency). See page 5 of his article. I quote: 'we decided on about a 35Hz cutoff taper which will take us down to about 50Hz in reality.' And note, from the response graph, the actual measured -6db point of 50Hz, which shows that it is conforming quite closely to what was intended. You might not like the fact that it only goes down to 50Hz, and that it's large, but that's only your preference. And the fact that it's large means that horn action is maintained to a much lower frequency than a smaller box can do (down to at least 60Hz, once the floor reflection-boundary condition is factored in for the lower mouth), before QW becomes the dominant action.
Horst, my aim was simply to (politely) dispute your statement on the gentleman's build-thread that the J-lo is a bad cabinet design. As you value measurements, I pointed you toward one Nelson made, which clearly shows the cabinet achieves his design goal of gain down to a cut-off of ~50Hz (the classic 1.414 times flare-frequency). See page 5 of his article. I quote: 'we decided on about a 35Hz cutoff taper which will take us down to about 50Hz in reality.' And note, from the response graph, the actual measured -6db point of 50Hz, which shows that it is conforming quite closely to what was intended. You might not like the fact that it only goes down to 50Hz, and that it's large, but that's only your preference. And the fact that it's large means that horn action is maintained to a much lower frequency than a smaller box can do (down to at least 60Hz, once the floor reflection-boundary condition is factored in for the lower mouth), before QW becomes the dominant action.
Hmmm sorry Sheriff, didn't think the pic was that racy, there are TV commercials that are way more, ahem inappropriate than that... Wasn't the cab,'' the J-low'' called that in reference to J-LO in the first place? Anyhow my bad, sorry..... If my smiley ever gets to wear the Cap, I'm a putting that pic and reference right back where it was. Dave
Dave
And I have to add, along with Terry's BEN cabinets, it also indirectly inspired me when you first published the write-up Nelson. I haven't thanked you before, but it seems like a good time.
Many thanks for that, and everything you do for the community, be it your amplifiers, or occasional speaker ideas. BTW -we had a DIY F4 running into my mate Steve's OBs (Lowther EX4s with twin Goodmans 401s, rolled off above 500Hz per chanel) the other night. He's a die-hard valve man, and he was getting worried. And now I've run out of reasons not to, so I've a pair of F4s planned for later this year.
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