Wow ... you guys ****** rock! 
Thanks for all the input from everyone here , its much appreciated.
There's been a couple of different ideas being thrown around and I'd just like to get some more opinions to assist in the narrowing down of what i'm going to get.
I'm 99% sure i'm going to go with the x1 plans for the lows , it seems to be the most practical and widely suggested.
However there is the issue of the drivers -
In the other thread i've got going on over @ speakerplans:
http://www.speakerplans.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=19477&PID=190487#190487
It was said that with the X1 design to avoid most drivers because the cabinet has a reputation of eating drivers - Opinions ??
I have heard a couple times that:
since i'm in the states it would tough to obtain the 1850 so I should instead go with the p-audio SD18. aubergine also suggested the SD18.
But - Iand said that:
I shouldn't go with the SD18 but go with a VOID V18-1000 ... Reasons/Opinions??
Next FlipC suggested that:
the size of the Driver isn't what matters and that I shouldn't just jump at putting an 18 in there because "the driver and cabinet must work together" because the size of the driver doesn't matter in producing more bass ... and suggested the Eminence Lab12 Generation II 12" sub with a listed response of 25hz-125hz ... Reasons/Opinions compared to 18's ??
Also - Jbell mentioned:
Building a similar PA system based around the MCM 55-1740 10" driver which has a response down to 60hz. Would these be your main low speakers or your mids?? Also if you were to use 4 of them like you say would the 4 of them together produce lows below 60??
What other drivers will you be using for your system , namely highs and mids , assuming those 10's are your lows?
Jbell also said:
"Just be careful on what you look at, and make sure the math all adds up... After all, it's all math." ... What are equations I absolutely NEED to be aware of not to **** this up and burn my money??
:::
About the crossover -
The DCX2496 has been recommended multiple times for reasons such as price and no analog parts to break off.
The DriveRackPX was suggested by electroaudio and if it truly is superior to the DCX and I wont be stressing about it shitting the bed on me than i'll spring the extra 130 bucks to get it. I wouldn't want to be nervous about the DCX breaking down , especially at a gig. And he also suggested the LEM DX24 but that appears to be available only in the european countries ... and the Rane however that appears to not have nearly the amount of functions the dbx and DCX have ...
So i'm still in a toss up between the dbx DriveRackPX and the Behringer DCX2496 - with the favor being slightly towards the DCX because of it being suggested so many times.
Also for the mids/highs the only thing thats really been suggested is the x15 cabinet design so i'm assuming this is a safe move??
And for amps I haven't really even explored anything yet so i'm not sure what direction i'll end up with that ...
as always , thanks for the help friends
~ meta
Thanks for all the input from everyone here , its much appreciated.
There's been a couple of different ideas being thrown around and I'd just like to get some more opinions to assist in the narrowing down of what i'm going to get.
I'm 99% sure i'm going to go with the x1 plans for the lows , it seems to be the most practical and widely suggested.
However there is the issue of the drivers -
In the other thread i've got going on over @ speakerplans:
http://www.speakerplans.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=19477&PID=190487#190487
It was said that with the X1 design to avoid most drivers because the cabinet has a reputation of eating drivers - Opinions ??
I have heard a couple times that:
since i'm in the states it would tough to obtain the 1850 so I should instead go with the p-audio SD18. aubergine also suggested the SD18.
But - Iand said that:
I shouldn't go with the SD18 but go with a VOID V18-1000 ... Reasons/Opinions??
Next FlipC suggested that:
the size of the Driver isn't what matters and that I shouldn't just jump at putting an 18 in there because "the driver and cabinet must work together" because the size of the driver doesn't matter in producing more bass ... and suggested the Eminence Lab12 Generation II 12" sub with a listed response of 25hz-125hz ... Reasons/Opinions compared to 18's ??
Also - Jbell mentioned:
Building a similar PA system based around the MCM 55-1740 10" driver which has a response down to 60hz. Would these be your main low speakers or your mids?? Also if you were to use 4 of them like you say would the 4 of them together produce lows below 60??
What other drivers will you be using for your system , namely highs and mids , assuming those 10's are your lows?
Jbell also said:
"Just be careful on what you look at, and make sure the math all adds up... After all, it's all math." ... What are equations I absolutely NEED to be aware of not to **** this up and burn my money??
:::
About the crossover -
The DCX2496 has been recommended multiple times for reasons such as price and no analog parts to break off.
The DriveRackPX was suggested by electroaudio and if it truly is superior to the DCX and I wont be stressing about it shitting the bed on me than i'll spring the extra 130 bucks to get it. I wouldn't want to be nervous about the DCX breaking down , especially at a gig. And he also suggested the LEM DX24 but that appears to be available only in the european countries ... and the Rane however that appears to not have nearly the amount of functions the dbx and DCX have ...
So i'm still in a toss up between the dbx DriveRackPX and the Behringer DCX2496 - with the favor being slightly towards the DCX because of it being suggested so many times.
Also for the mids/highs the only thing thats really been suggested is the x15 cabinet design so i'm assuming this is a safe move??
And for amps I haven't really even explored anything yet so i'm not sure what direction i'll end up with that ...
as always , thanks for the help friends
~ meta
metaverse said:
If you actually need a digital processor or if the rane or something similar is adequate depends entirely on what speakers and amps you get.
My personal approach would be the rane with good speakers that doesnt need any correction and amps with built in limiters that is slightly too small to burn the speakers.
Sorry no.
I mostly work with much larger budgets and factorymade stuff so i dont have any experience with diy approaches that would be useable for your situation.
And i also suspect that our view of music is very different from eachother, so i think it is best if i stay out of that part.
However, EAW 850SB is very popular around here for your kind of music, maybe its internal rising response is a clue?
But i think that is best answered by someone that loves the same thing as you do.
I mostly work with much larger budgets and factorymade stuff so i dont have any experience with diy approaches that would be useable for your situation.
And i also suspect that our view of music is very different from eachother, so i think it is best if i stay out of that part.
However, EAW 850SB is very popular around here for your kind of music, maybe its internal rising response is a clue?
But i think that is best answered by someone that loves the same thing as you do.
I just now looked at the price of a SD18 and didn't quite expect them to be over 400.00 ...
When compared to the Eminence 12" thats 150 or so my next question is ...
What are the pros/cons for going with that 12" in the X1 box and what are the pros/cons going with the SD18 in the x1 box?
Would there be a dramatic difference?
i'm guessing the 12 would give more punch and the 18 more of a wave - bowl of bass soup feeling ?? Or does this hinge more upon the box itself?
electro - thanks for your help and honesty
When compared to the Eminence 12" thats 150 or so my next question is ...
What are the pros/cons for going with that 12" in the X1 box and what are the pros/cons going with the SD18 in the x1 box?
Would there be a dramatic difference?
i'm guessing the 12 would give more punch and the 18 more of a wave - bowl of bass soup feeling ?? Or does this hinge more upon the box itself?
electro - thanks for your help and honesty
To answer a couple different questions:
yes, a T36 makes bass indoors where wall loading/corner loading is possible. Outdoors, it just doesn't cut it. That and the fact that 40hz is -13db vs 100hz, prevented me from using it. Yes, I gave them a fair shake, and built 4 36" wide, but it wasn't what I needed. My 3015lf TH worked very well, 102.5db@1W/1M@40hz where the T36 was only 95....
The mcm55-1740 is flat to 44hz in my TH that I just built/tested tonight, average 100db 1W/1M with a slight bump at 50hz. So bang for the buck, a $50 sub with driver and plywood... seems like a good deal with 4 subs / 4 tops.
For tops I have a slot loaded / horn top that works really well with the same 55-1740 driver, so for me, it's the ticket to "pa on the cheap"
Since you say you're new to PA and PA math:
Here's the basics I keep in mind -- define your lowest freq you need (40hz, whatever) find that efficiency of whatever sub you choose, and use that as a benchmark efficiency. 100watts adds 20db, 1000 watts adds 30db so efficiency is KEY. Power compression (where you add power but don't get any additional volume) usually starts pretty early --meaning: don't plan on running 1000 watt rated subs with 1000 watts, they probably aren't putting out much more (if any) sound than if you were feeding them 200-400watts. Decide if you can wall or corner load your subs, if so, you get a free 6db or more. Wall or corner load will almost always provide more even bass than separated subs (with comb filtering and cancellations) Sound drops off at 6db per doubling of distance, so 10meters away is 20db quieter, than at 1 meter. Since it's 6db for every doubling of distance, you can have much more even bass if your listeners are all 10-20meters away, than if they were 1-5 meters away.. That's the best reason to wall or corner load (and the free bass it gives) Doubling power gets 3 db, doubling cabinets gets 3 db, doubling both gives 6db. (So if you have an 8 ohm sub, and add another 8ohm sub, dropping your amp load to 4ohm, you've doubled your power and doubled your cabinet count which added 6 total db) "reasonable" PA listening levels are usually in the 100-115 db range You get 40hz-15000hz in that spl range -- people will be happy.
There's much more math, but that'll get you started in the right direction.
yes, a T36 makes bass indoors where wall loading/corner loading is possible. Outdoors, it just doesn't cut it. That and the fact that 40hz is -13db vs 100hz, prevented me from using it. Yes, I gave them a fair shake, and built 4 36" wide, but it wasn't what I needed. My 3015lf TH worked very well, 102.5db@1W/1M@40hz where the T36 was only 95....
The mcm55-1740 is flat to 44hz in my TH that I just built/tested tonight, average 100db 1W/1M with a slight bump at 50hz. So bang for the buck, a $50 sub with driver and plywood... seems like a good deal with 4 subs / 4 tops.
For tops I have a slot loaded / horn top that works really well with the same 55-1740 driver, so for me, it's the ticket to "pa on the cheap"
Since you say you're new to PA and PA math:
Here's the basics I keep in mind -- define your lowest freq you need (40hz, whatever) find that efficiency of whatever sub you choose, and use that as a benchmark efficiency. 100watts adds 20db, 1000 watts adds 30db so efficiency is KEY. Power compression (where you add power but don't get any additional volume) usually starts pretty early --meaning: don't plan on running 1000 watt rated subs with 1000 watts, they probably aren't putting out much more (if any) sound than if you were feeding them 200-400watts. Decide if you can wall or corner load your subs, if so, you get a free 6db or more. Wall or corner load will almost always provide more even bass than separated subs (with comb filtering and cancellations) Sound drops off at 6db per doubling of distance, so 10meters away is 20db quieter, than at 1 meter. Since it's 6db for every doubling of distance, you can have much more even bass if your listeners are all 10-20meters away, than if they were 1-5 meters away.. That's the best reason to wall or corner load (and the free bass it gives) Doubling power gets 3 db, doubling cabinets gets 3 db, doubling both gives 6db. (So if you have an 8 ohm sub, and add another 8ohm sub, dropping your amp load to 4ohm, you've doubled your power and doubled your cabinet count which added 6 total db) "reasonable" PA listening levels are usually in the 100-115 db range You get 40hz-15000hz in that spl range -- people will be happy.
There's much more math, but that'll get you started in the right direction.
metaverse said:I just now looked at the price of a SD18 and didn't quite expect them to be over 400.00 ...
When compared to the Eminence 12" thats 150 or so my next question is ...
What are the pros/cons for going with that 12" in the X1 box and what are the pros/cons going with the SD18 in the x1 box?
Would there be a dramatic difference?
i'm guessing the 12 would give more punch and the 18 more of a wave - bowl of bass soup feeling ?? Or does this hinge more upon the box itself?
electro - thanks for your help and honesty
Driver diameter is irrelevant, the LAB12 in it's designed box would give more of a 'wave' as you say, and there are 18" kick bins (take a look at the turbosound bandpass horns, among other free designs). The X1 is a 6th order bandpass design as you know, designed for the SD18, but the cheapest driver that works in there is the C18-650EL also from P Audio.
You can't just bung any driver in it, the box determines the driver when you pick a plan. The X1 with any driver has no 'kick', it doesn't play in the 'kick' region (just upwards of it's operating range).
See you on SP
metaverse said:Wow ... you guys ****** rock!
Thanks for all the input from everyone here , its much appreciated.
There's been a couple of different ideas being thrown around and I'd just like to get some more opinions to assist in the narrowing down of what i'm going to get.
I'm 99% sure i'm going to go with the x1 plans for the lows , it seems to be the most practical and widely suggested.
However there is the issue of the drivers -
In the other thread i've got going on over @ speakerplans:
http://www.speakerplans.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=19477&PID=190487#190487
It was said that with the X1 design to avoid most drivers because the cabinet has a reputation of eating drivers - Opinions ??
I have heard a couple times that:
since i'm in the states it would tough to obtain the 1850 so I should instead go with the p-audio SD18. aubergine also suggested the SD18.
But - Iand said that:
I shouldn't go with the SD18 but go with a VOID V18-1000 ... Reasons/Opinions??
as always , thanks for the help friends
~ meta
It all depends how hard you're going to drive the X1 (I haven't built one, but I've been following all the discussions for some time). If you put more than 1kW into it the Void V18-1000 has a stronger cone, higher power handling, and bigger Xmax than the SD18, and people have found it less prone to expiring under these conditions.
If you can't get either driver where you are then you're looking for an 18" driver, preferably with a BL product and Xmax as high as possible, and there aren't many of these around and they're not cheap -- there are some suggestions here:
http://www.speakerplans.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9161
If you don't use a suitable driver the performance won't be good.
Ian
Its late so I haven't quite processed all the info you guys just handed to me - although I do have a more clarified vision of things.
At this point i'm just getting ready to tear because I feel like i've found the ultimate box for what I want to accomplish and the best drivers , VOID v18, I can't get in the states ...
discouraging to say the least ...
time for bed , i'll be back at it tomorrow.
thanks guys
~ meta
At this point i'm just getting ready to tear because I feel like i've found the ultimate box for what I want to accomplish and the best drivers , VOID v18, I can't get in the states ...
discouraging to say the least ...
time for bed , i'll be back at it tomorrow.
thanks guys
~ meta
For what you describe (the bar) a X1 loaded with a SD-18, powered with say a solid 700 W amplifier and 2 x 12"/1" quality tops (1.4" if you can afford it) sound fully up to the challenge.
An other choice for the basscab would be a good 2x15" reflex.
A single 18" reflex might do the business but the efficiency boost from the 6th order BP (the X1) surely does the trick, just to be on the safe side.
In any case a good high pass on the bass cabs is recommended (30 Hz or higher). For the tops I would recommend an amplifier capable of 2 x Wrms rating of the 12" driver, partially to be used as headroom, x-over above Fs and/or tuning of tops.
Regards Johan
An other choice for the basscab would be a good 2x15" reflex.
A single 18" reflex might do the business but the efficiency boost from the 6th order BP (the X1) surely does the trick, just to be on the safe side.
In any case a good high pass on the bass cabs is recommended (30 Hz or higher). For the tops I would recommend an amplifier capable of 2 x Wrms rating of the 12" driver, partially to be used as headroom, x-over above Fs and/or tuning of tops.
Regards Johan
rademakers makes a good point -- where you are filling a small room, and size of cabinets matters, don't dismiss the often overlooked 2x15 direct radiator.
http://www.partsexpress.com/pdf/290-598c.pdf
yes, I'm the first to point you to high efficiency cabinets -- TH, BP, etc.. and I had good success with a 3015lf in a 21cu.ft. TH, however for only 13.5cu.ft, you're good to 40hz,and can achieve 131db in half space -- wall or corner loaded is much louder.
The 3015lf can be had for under $150, and it's an extremely simple build. If you go this route, when you're ready to 'upgrade' to bigger cabinets, the 3015lf is probably the best all around 15 for horns/bp designs in my opinion. (anyone spec a X1 style cabinet for a 3015lf???)
So, WAG on a total system. (if you like behringer stuff)
$350 in pair of OT12 (billfitzmaurice.com designed PA top)
$400 in dual 3015lf ported cabinet
$350 ep2500 amp
$250 dcx2496
$200 rx1202fx
$1550 total, which leaves plenty of budget left over for rack case, and other toys...
http://www.partsexpress.com/pdf/290-598c.pdf
yes, I'm the first to point you to high efficiency cabinets -- TH, BP, etc.. and I had good success with a 3015lf in a 21cu.ft. TH, however for only 13.5cu.ft, you're good to 40hz,and can achieve 131db in half space -- wall or corner loaded is much louder.
The 3015lf can be had for under $150, and it's an extremely simple build. If you go this route, when you're ready to 'upgrade' to bigger cabinets, the 3015lf is probably the best all around 15 for horns/bp designs in my opinion. (anyone spec a X1 style cabinet for a 3015lf???)
So, WAG on a total system. (if you like behringer stuff)
$350 in pair of OT12 (billfitzmaurice.com designed PA top)
$400 in dual 3015lf ported cabinet
$350 ep2500 amp
$250 dcx2496
$200 rx1202fx
$1550 total, which leaves plenty of budget left over for rack case, and other toys...
Hey guys - thanks for the additional input ...
After much deliberation I think I may just spring the extra cash for shipping and order a Void v18-1000 or 1200 [hopefully the 1200] and grab it from a company where the US exchange isn't so bad.
I'm feeling like the void is really where the value for the X1 will come to life.
I also figure that i'll start with one and then in the future I build a 2nd one when i'm throwing bigger events.
Any of you guys have any advice on aquiring the void v18 ?? Any particular company I may be able to go through that'll give me the best deal ??
:::
And for the mids/tops - ease of cabinet build seems to be a bigger issue than I had originally thought. I showed the x15 plans to a friend and he felt as though he needed some "clearer" plans - maybe its just because he's used to hobby box builds and custom carpentry that its looking complicated.
I'm going to take the same approach with the mids/tops that I am with the X1 = best ratio of - place in the system - performance - ease of build - price. In that order.
And I guess since my hearts set on the X1 i'm going to choose the mids/tops that would best suite it - at a fair price and relatively easy build as well assuming they are a proper fit with the v18 loaded X1.
Do you feel the x15's will be appropriate with a certain set of drivers??
:::
Also - as far as Behringer goes - I did a google search for that 2500 amp and one of the first posts was
"problems with behringer ..." So I think i'm going to do some more research on those aspects as this project progress' into proper amps for the drivers/cabinets I go with.
But thank you for illustrating the price list and the possibilities ... It filled in the total a picture a bit more allowing me to see clearer as to where I want to go with this beautiful project you guys are helping me with
My buddy dropped the question of what material I was going to use today so at this point i'm wondering -
What would be the best cabinet material to go with? How would that factor into cost ?
Ideally I want to build a lasting system that'll hold up for a solid 3+ years while staying in and around the 2000 mark - a bit over but under 2500 is good ...
thanks
~ meta
After much deliberation I think I may just spring the extra cash for shipping and order a Void v18-1000 or 1200 [hopefully the 1200
] and grab it from a company where the US exchange isn't so bad.I'm feeling like the void is really where the value for the X1 will come to life.
I also figure that i'll start with one and then in the future I build a 2nd one when i'm throwing bigger events.
Any of you guys have any advice on aquiring the void v18 ?? Any particular company I may be able to go through that'll give me the best deal ??
:::
And for the mids/tops - ease of cabinet build seems to be a bigger issue than I had originally thought. I showed the x15 plans to a friend and he felt as though he needed some "clearer" plans - maybe its just because he's used to hobby box builds and custom carpentry that its looking complicated.
I'm going to take the same approach with the mids/tops that I am with the X1 = best ratio of - place in the system - performance - ease of build - price. In that order.
And I guess since my hearts set on the X1 i'm going to choose the mids/tops that would best suite it - at a fair price and relatively easy build as well assuming they are a proper fit with the v18 loaded X1.
Do you feel the x15's will be appropriate with a certain set of drivers??
:::
Also - as far as Behringer goes - I did a google search for that 2500 amp and one of the first posts was
"problems with behringer ..." So I think i'm going to do some more research on those aspects as this project progress' into proper amps for the drivers/cabinets I go with.
But thank you for illustrating the price list and the possibilities ... It filled in the total a picture a bit more allowing me to see clearer as to where I want to go with this beautiful project you guys are helping me with
My buddy dropped the question of what material I was going to use today so at this point i'm wondering -
What would be the best cabinet material to go with? How would that factor into cost ?
Ideally I want to build a lasting system that'll hold up for a solid 3+ years while staying in and around the 2000 mark - a bit over but under 2500 is good ...
thanks
~ meta
If you have a lowes around with auroco plywood, that's the stuff you want to build with. Not as expensive or heavy as baltic birch, but good quality stuff.
Google for duratex, best speaker finish -- bar none. Not much more expensive than paint.
Use a heavy texture roller, or preferred a hopper gun (harbor freight 2471-1VGA)
on behringer, yes, some of their stuff has solder crack issues, etc.. which is why you've been cautioned on the dcx2496. However, bang for the buck, some of their stuff is a good deal.
I've not had a ep2500 fail or have issues, and I have about a dozen church's using them... but then that's nice comfortable install locations, not banging around in the back of a truck, etc.. on gigs. Some say the ep2500 is a direct rip off of the qsc... not sure on that, but if true -- is a good thing.
You can't go wrong with qsc, or crown for amps, but that'll stretch your budget a little.
Google for duratex, best speaker finish -- bar none. Not much more expensive than paint.
Use a heavy texture roller, or preferred a hopper gun (harbor freight 2471-1VGA)
on behringer, yes, some of their stuff has solder crack issues, etc.. which is why you've been cautioned on the dcx2496. However, bang for the buck, some of their stuff is a good deal.
I've not had a ep2500 fail or have issues, and I have about a dozen church's using them... but then that's nice comfortable install locations, not banging around in the back of a truck, etc.. on gigs. Some say the ep2500 is a direct rip off of the qsc... not sure on that, but if true -- is a good thing.
You can't go wrong with qsc, or crown for amps, but that'll stretch your budget a little.
metaverse said:Hey guys - thanks for the additional input ...
After much deliberation I think I may just spring the extra cash for shipping and order a Void v18-1000 or 1200 [hopefully the 1200
I'm feeling like the void is really where the value for the X1 will come to life.
I also figure that i'll start with one and then in the future I build a 2nd one when i'm throwing bigger events.
Any of you guys have any advice on aquiring the void v18 ?? Any particular company I may be able to go through that'll give me the best deal ??
thanks
~ meta
The V18-1000 is recommended for the X1 not the V18-1200 -- the 1200 has a longer coil with lower BL and a less rigid cone than the 1000, the 1200 is designed for reflex boxes.
UK supplier Pro Audio Parts is next door to the Void factory
http://www.proaudioparts.co.uk/
Ian
Ian, they're next door neighbours for a good reason as you know...
electroaudio
For amps....I wouldn't say the QSC GX would be a first choice. QSC's recent products have been a mixes bag in my opinion and this is...mixed.
However, YMMV.
There are better amps in the price range....metaverse what is available at hand?
Are you looking to expand?
What kind of power do you have...(32A, 16A, etc)?
For midtops to go above these, I'd go for Rog's X15s or a simple pair of passive 15+comps.
PX is the PA for powered speakers
Same thing really
People seem to have a predisposition against Berry gear, but there are one or two gems in the pile of turd.
But the Berry UltraDrive/Curve series is a budget workhorse, which if you take care of, will not die unless you do something really stupid.
Don't forget that these are not just 'crossovers' we are talking about, they are LMS units, with inbuilt parametric, compressor, limiter, delay, etc functions.
With an AC22 you would have to have your rack filled with yet more processing to make up for functionality.
The optimum setup for this situation in my humble opinion would be a ultradrive and a simple 2x31 band graphic EQ. You don't need an ultracurve, and there are plenty good ones from used equipment sellers. You don't need to get a DN360 by any means, but you can pick up some deals. I choose to have an external graphic because they are easy to change, take the strain off the Berry, and are quite cheap.
electroaudio
For amps....I wouldn't say the QSC GX would be a first choice. QSC's recent products have been a mixes bag in my opinion and this is...mixed.
However, YMMV.
There are better amps in the price range....metaverse what is available at hand?
Are you looking to expand?
What kind of power do you have...(32A, 16A, etc)?
For midtops to go above these, I'd go for Rog's X15s or a simple pair of passive 15+comps.
electroaudio said:
PX is the PA for powered speakers
Same thing really
People seem to have a predisposition against Berry gear, but there are one or two gems in the pile of turd.
But the Berry UltraDrive/Curve series is a budget workhorse, which if you take care of, will not die unless you do something really stupid.
Don't forget that these are not just 'crossovers' we are talking about, they are LMS units, with inbuilt parametric, compressor, limiter, delay, etc functions.
With an AC22 you would have to have your rack filled with yet more processing to make up for functionality.
The optimum setup for this situation in my humble opinion would be a ultradrive and a simple 2x31 band graphic EQ. You don't need an ultracurve, and there are plenty good ones from used equipment sellers. You don't need to get a DN360 by any means, but you can pick up some deals. I choose to have an external graphic because they are easy to change, take the strain off the Berry, and are quite cheap.
I couldn't find any dealers around this part of the pond that carry the PD or the v18 , and i'm guessing between shipping and conversions i'd probably be spending too much AND considering the X1 was designed for the SD-18 , I should probably just go with that
:::::
Concerning The mids/tops - I'm going to go with a set of x15's [ http://www.speakerplans.com/index.php?id=x15 ] ...
although i'm not sure what drivers I should go with ??
The suggested drivers in the plans almost seem like they might be overkill for my needs - but again , you guys are the guys with the experience so i'll take your word for it AND I can always turn the gain down
what do you folks feel would be the proper complimentary drivers in the X15 cabs to the X1 box ??
Also upon checking http://www.loudspeakersplus.com/html/paudiopht.html - they dont have the horns suggested in the first set of [cheaper/smaller] X15 plans ... I'm feeling like maybe the SN-15MB , isn't quite needed ... especially at 175 dollars a piece. Maybe 12's instead? However , I can always turn down the gain ...
again i'm looking for a good complementary fit of mids and highs to go with the SD-18 in the X1.
:::::
PX for powered speakers LOL - I guess I should've checked it out a bit more as these cabinets will obviously be using external amps.
I'm going to use the Behringer - I'll just make sure to baby it.
As far as those EQ's go , I do like these ease of adjustment. Just grab a slider and adjust however do you feel it will make much of a difference on the Work Load of the berry ?? I mean if I can grab a good working one for 100 bucks or so i'll jump in if its easier to use AND extends the life of the DCX ...
:::::
I was showing some of these plans to a friend who does custom carpentry and furniture building (he's done a speaker box or two in his day but nothing like this) and he had mentioned some difficulty while reading the plans provided here on the site. He mentioned that he wasn't too sure where to start ...
He also mentioned what kind of wood - Jbell suggested the auroco ... Any other votes for this one ??
Obviously I dont want ANY mishaps after investing so much time and effort ...
I also had mentioned that I saw an X1 build where someone used dowels? His response was "Wow , thats good craft - but too much of a pain in the *** for me , could I just use nails?"
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Concerning The mids/tops - I'm going to go with a set of x15's [ http://www.speakerplans.com/index.php?id=x15 ] ...
although i'm not sure what drivers I should go with ??
The suggested drivers in the plans almost seem like they might be overkill for my needs - but again , you guys are the guys with the experience so i'll take your word for it AND I can always turn the gain down
what do you folks feel would be the proper complimentary drivers in the X15 cabs to the X1 box ??
Also upon checking http://www.loudspeakersplus.com/html/paudiopht.html - they dont have the horns suggested in the first set of [cheaper/smaller] X15 plans ... I'm feeling like maybe the SN-15MB , isn't quite needed ... especially at 175 dollars a piece. Maybe 12's instead? However , I can always turn down the gain ...
again i'm looking for a good complementary fit of mids and highs to go with the SD-18 in the X1.
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PX for powered speakers LOL - I guess I should've checked it out a bit more as these cabinets will obviously be using external amps.
I'm going to use the Behringer - I'll just make sure to baby it.
As far as those EQ's go , I do like these ease of adjustment. Just grab a slider and adjust however do you feel it will make much of a difference on the Work Load of the berry ?? I mean if I can grab a good working one for 100 bucks or so i'll jump in if its easier to use AND extends the life of the DCX ...
:::::
I was showing some of these plans to a friend who does custom carpentry and furniture building (he's done a speaker box or two in his day but nothing like this) and he had mentioned some difficulty while reading the plans provided here on the site. He mentioned that he wasn't too sure where to start ...
He also mentioned what kind of wood - Jbell suggested the auroco ... Any other votes for this one ??
Obviously I dont want ANY mishaps after investing so much time and effort ...
I also had mentioned that I saw an X1 build where someone used dowels? His response was "Wow , thats good craft - but too much of a pain in the *** for me , could I just use nails?"
aubergine said:
Wouldnt that be very expensive to QSC since they have a rather good guarantee?
My own experience is only with older QSCs like EX, MX, MXa , PL and so forth. My own QSC amps are MXa and EX and they are very reliable workhorses.
Very much in the same league as my normal LAB Gruppen and D12 amps.
-I do however have a couple of IT4000s that NOT is reliable at all.
And a couple of digams that fails one by one so there are only three left by now... YIKES
He is in usa so most likely 20A at 110V.
PX is the PA for powered speakers
Same thing really
Except it is a small sibling to the recent 4800
But i think the complaints against PA is a bit moot too, have you heard a djmixer? DJM800 for instance. Or seen how they are used? Always in the red...
The expected lifespan of a behringer usually is 1-1.5 years at best.
But he shouldnt need all the functions in the behringer, so why should he risk the reliability on a component that if it breaks will ruin the night.
An AC22 with an optional KT DN360 would be sufficient if the system is a good one built properly.
And wouldnt it be odd to use a behringer and an 360? One good and very expensive part and an another whose function is very important but where reliability is questionable?
A traditional barrentalsystem from me would consist of two EAW850SB, two custombuilt JBL 2x15"+2" one rack with a rane mojo crossover and one LAB1600 and one LAB1300. soundwise it would be better than many other competitors that has processors and still impossible to burn down.
In addition to what has already been said, take a look at Xilica for speaker management. Not real well known in the states yet, but some very attractive offerings nonetheless. For amps I'd stay away from the EP* at least for sub duty. You said you want a new amp, but a good used Macro Tech 2400 or Crest 7001 or 8001 would be a solid choice. The newer QSC RMX amps seem to be very good for the money. (IIRC they are what Behr* copied and stripped down) And I know a place where you can get a used XTA DP200 for a song
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