I have been hiding in the shadows for awhile...
While i have not been able to get 30hz out of a portable, kinda flat horn, here is what i was able to get based off Jbell's dual mcm FLH, but using the Dayton DVC310-88.
That driver can take a beating, i have one in a BFM T30. I am looking to replace that tuba with a flatter, more powerful, and smaller if it can be.
If i am using HR correctly, the cab can get 133.5 db with two cab @600w each, but they only go down to 40hz and risk going over the xmax less than that.
Any comments or improvements?
While i have not been able to get 30hz out of a portable, kinda flat horn, here is what i was able to get based off Jbell's dual mcm FLH, but using the Dayton DVC310-88.
That driver can take a beating, i have one in a BFM T30. I am looking to replace that tuba with a flatter, more powerful, and smaller if it can be.
If i am using HR correctly, the cab can get 133.5 db with two cab @600w each, but they only go down to 40hz and risk going over the xmax less than that.
Any comments or improvements?
Attachments
Jim: OK, good to know. A single cabinet sim is still 101@30 Hz with 2.83 v, 2pi (I know - that is two watts, as it is a 4-ohm cabinet)
Sim is located here:http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/subwoofers/154474-best-diy-sub-18-driver-2.html#post1972347
Download the text file, put it in your hornresp\import directory, then import it into hornresp.
The other half of my order was delivered on Friday, 55-2421's should be here tomorrow.
Sim is located here:http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/subwoofers/154474-best-diy-sub-18-driver-2.html#post1972347
Download the text file, put it in your hornresp\import directory, then import it into hornresp.
The other half of my order was delivered on Friday, 55-2421's should be here tomorrow.
Thanks jbell
Good db's! I wonder if 40hz is still pretty thumpin? I've been trying to get hold of mates to find stats of subs we've used before, hard to imagine the sound, I've been locked up all winter saving money!!
Wow this program's pretty neat, just gotta train these parameter keys into myself..
Would a bandpass cabinet fit the requirements for a 30 to 100hz cabinet?
I was thinking specfically about Rog Mogales Design on speakerplans.com
Speakerplans.com
-3db points are 31 to 119hz @ 102db/W.
Personally I dont like the sound of 6th order bandpass cabinets in PA systems, In my opinion they have poor bass timing.
Funktion One use some sort of ported bandpass design in the Infrabass 218 to extend the LF of their horn systems.
I assume the Infrabass 218 is a 4th order bandpass cabinet,which would compliment their bandpass horn designs.
They also make a add on horn that fits to the front of 2 Infrabass 218 cabinets. thats 4 x 18" drivers. they do sound very impressive but they are ony effective for one octave from 30 to 60hz
Yeah Rog's stuff look's good, be good to find out how electronic plays through them. Wonder if the klipsch's had any odd connection to the matching subs, a guy up north still has them(2 or 4x18"s) but I've heard after the system got broken up they've been thrashed a little, maybe a LOT....
Still looking for the last two kp-362's(was originally a set of six tops and some subs, 2 or 4 18"s. I assumed they were just ported boxes but I don't know, sould try an get in touch with the guy...
Excellent! We got you thinking. First thing is to look at the math.
20*log(number of coherent sources) = dB gain
That shows that 8 cabinets are 18dB louder than a single one. 18dB is not a little bit. That's almost quadruple apparent loudness. That's like the same change from 1W of drive to 63W.
As the mouths of each horn are placed next to each other, they work together so each cabinet now works on a mouth area that is 8 times as large. More mouth is better loading and the system's Fc drops.
Eight is a good number as it works out to two groups of four. With four you can play the series/parallel game to get the same impedance load as a single cab with quadruple the power handling, which should work well for the 2ch amplifier you choose to use.
Ok thanks mate I think I'm getting it now, not too sure about the phrase 20*log?
I understand that the sum of the components can be greater than individually but not sure of the term...
Thanks so much for your time guys!
Fusion FJL-1211 sub?
Hey I've just pulled the sub out of my car an had a look at it, I wonder if it's any good for TH use..
Some stats..
DRIVER:
- 12-inch High Rigidity
Non-Pressed Paper Cone
- High Excursion Surround
- Woven Fabian Leads
- Die-Cast Aluminum Basket
POWER HANDLING:
- 650W RMS
- 1300W Max
FREQUENCY RESPONSE:
- 22 - 1,200 Hz
VOICE COIL:
- Dual 3-inch Black Alloy
- 4-Ohm + 4-Ohm Impedence
MAGNET:
- 325 oz.
SENSITIVITY:
- 92.1 dB
Can't find any more parameters
I wonder how my Qsc 400w amp would drive it?
Here's a link..
K & T Sales: Shop - Subwoofers - Fusion FJL1211
Hey I've just pulled the sub out of my car an had a look at it, I wonder if it's any good for TH use..
Some stats..
DRIVER:
- 12-inch High Rigidity
Non-Pressed Paper Cone
- High Excursion Surround
- Woven Fabian Leads
- Die-Cast Aluminum Basket
POWER HANDLING:
- 650W RMS
- 1300W Max
FREQUENCY RESPONSE:
- 22 - 1,200 Hz
VOICE COIL:
- Dual 3-inch Black Alloy
- 4-Ohm + 4-Ohm Impedence
MAGNET:
- 325 oz.
SENSITIVITY:
- 92.1 dB
Can't find any more parameters
I wonder how my Qsc 400w amp would drive it?
Here's a link..
K & T Sales: Shop - Subwoofers - Fusion FJL1211
Yeah outdoor, could be used indoor if it won't push enough out.. Was told to match the klipsch's I'd need 30hz to 100hz and over 100db.
Yeah I know I bought the sub in a carpeted sealed box from a cash converters about a year ago. They wanted $250 and I'd seen it there for a while and heard rumors it was good so I barted them down to $170 or something!
Thinking I could build a cowen 30hz TH with it..
I'm having a hellish time with hornresp(almost wrote hornrasp!) been up all night an I still can't work it at all! Read the help file but it's gonna take some time.
Figure I could use something cowen 30hz when I'm just running 2 kp's and think about buliding a couple more later for full swing...
Any thoughts?
Could you double check that? 100dB @ 30Hz isn't much. What average music level SPL do you desire? Or better asked, what max SPL do you require @ 30Hz? Are you going for concert level 110 spl average out around 33 feet from the subs?
Quote from little mike>>
""According to the manufacturer, your KP-362's make 102 dB with 1 Watt and are -4 dB @ 55 Hz. Looks like you want efficient subs that would reach an octave lower, so you'd want something that played a bit deeper than Jim's design. The KP-362 will each make 126 dB at full power, ideally you want the subs to produce a bit more than that. You may need multiple subs to get there (2 per main)
Some of the electronic/dubstep I've played with has content way down low (20 to 25 Hz.), so no matter what you do for a sub - it would be wise to run a strong (48 dB/oct) highpass filter to save your drivers and use the amp power where it matters.
After all this -
Answer #1 = From 30 Hz to 100 Hz.
Answer #2 = Greater than 100 dB 1W/1M""end quote
I'm having a bit of a hard time equating Db etc. never had a meter out before. Just need as much kick as I can afford really, as low cost and as portable as possible and simple also. I'll have to make a comprimise somewhere I know..
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I couldn't be sure of spl@30hz davy, kp's do 126@1m on 300w.
Suggestion?
If I have subs beside or in front of the booth the audience will be in the 1 to 20 meter range I think. That'd be maximum we mostly have 100 to 200 people at an event but we're after big sound for even 50 people...
I'm going over your way in a week would like to start a project when I get back mid dec.
Would you help me model a cowan 30hz TH with this driver? Been putting off setting this sub up in my new car, I need my ears for bigger things to come, would be a good compact setup with two Klipschs
Will look into something bigger for the full set up in the new year, jbell suggested this
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/subw...ecific-tapped-horn-thread-54.html#post1829532
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Fusion Lomu FJL- 1211
DRIVER:
- 12-inch High Rigidity
Non-Pressed Paper Cone
- High Excursion Surround
- Woven Fabian Leads
- Die-Cast Aluminum Basket
POWER HANDLING:
- 650W RMS
- 1300W Max
FREQUENCY RESPONSE:
- 22 - 1,200 Hz
VOICE COIL:
- Dual 3-inch Black Alloy
- 4-Ohm + 4-Ohm Impedence
MAGNET:
- 325 oz.
SENSITIVITY:
- 92.1 dB
More parameters
FS - 26 hz
QMS - 3.717
Vas - 107.1 l
Xmax - 13mm one way
Qes - .35
Qts - .322
Sens - 89 1-W
Overall Dia - 319mm
Cut Dia - 285mm
Depth - 165mm
Here's a link..
K & T Sales: Shop - Subwoofers - Fusion FJL1211
It was all an educated guess, but I figured that if his mains did 126, subs should do better than 130, and to get there easy (read less than a kilowatt), that means 100 dB 1W/1M.
130dB(SPL)/1M/30Hz max SPL ought to do. Which is 110dB 33 feet away (outside). Give yourself 10db of headroom for peaks, so that's nominal (average) at 100dB 33 feet out. Kinda lofty, but should be possible with multiple cabs that use mutual coupling.
Those aren't enough T/S params to be useful. Sd, Bl, Cms, and Re are needed. Is Qms with the two coils in series or parallel?
Those aren't enough T/S params to be useful. Sd, Bl, Cms, and Re are needed. Is Qms with the two coils in series or parallel?
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Yeah jbell suggested that link a little up this page, maybe four cabs?
Do you think it's worthwhile making a cowan 30hz with this car audio sub?
I'm lucky enough to live behind a hall my cousin owns so could be handy..
Haven't made any horns before would be a good trainer i think. I've made close tolerance craft style boxes before but no bigg cabs
You realize you'll probably need four cabs? Here's my guess on the T/S params. These need to be correct before a TH can be designed around it.
Sd=430.00
Bl=18.84
Cms=9.86E-05
Rms=16.70
Mmd=374.89
Le=2.42
Re=2.00
Sd, Le, and Re complete guesses. Mmd looks oddly high. Manufacturer specs are unavailable
Sd=430.00
Bl=18.84
Cms=9.86E-05
Rms=16.70
Mmd=374.89
Le=2.42
Re=2.00
Sd, Le, and Re complete guesses. Mmd looks oddly high. Manufacturer specs are unavailable
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