You may find a review of the mods performed by Audiocom on the 103, in french, here. Specificaly interesting in terms of detailed pictures of the location of the tweaks (including PSU, damping, EMI).
Hdfever also has a review (also with quality pictures) of these 2 Audiocom machines.
best regards
Philippe (who has ordered a 105 few days ago with the intention to mod it)
Hdfever also has a review (also with quality pictures) of these 2 Audiocom machines.
best regards
Philippe (who has ordered a 105 few days ago with the intention to mod it)
Hi Coris, Hi John
Perhaps I can fill a small role here, I think Coris is judging Oppo 105 in the light of what can be done to improve them, but I understand what John is saying and also Oppo's choices in the matter. Been on both sides, and Oppo has constraints that have to be expected, and respected. The last we would want is for Oppo to disappear - that would do nobody any good. So they must do what they have to do, simple as that.
I have said it many times, what the Oppo 95 and 105 does at their price point - and making choices to make it work as a business and improve a product in that light - then really there is nothing else that I could recommend, even if you don't want me to touch it.
But, it also gives us a vehicle, and of course Oppo knows this, that we can do our own thing, and also understand that Oppo has rights in this respects as far as Warranty is concerned. All I ask is that Oppo makes their players reliable - get those things right that are beyond our control and the fundamental reliability is what we want Oppo to deliver.
So there can't be too many complaints.
Except for one... I would love that they do what mostly others do, make available a service manual in PDF format.
Cheers, Joe R.
I think you pointed right, Joe. I judge this player/manufacturer in the light of the improvements which are obviously and one almost have to do it to get at least an exceptional working machine. I still wonder why Oppo himself do not proceed to those quite important modifications which can improve this player a lot. And it is not here about excessive production costs...
As I have seen, the 105 model incorporate some modifications we talked about in this forum for a long time (95 model).
Anyway, we have to be happy enough that Oppo deliver on marked a good priced device with a huge (unused) quality potential in it, and let us (they who can) to take advantage of that unused potential...
My judgements in this case may not be taken as complains, even though it looks like so...
As I have seen, the 105 model incorporate some modifications we talked about in this forum for a long time (95 model).
Anyway, we have to be happy enough that Oppo deliver on marked a good priced device with a huge (unused) quality potential in it, and let us (they who can) to take advantage of that unused potential...
My judgements in this case may not be taken as complains, even though it looks like so...
I just added a set of large AQ Sorbothane feet under the unit. This had a very beneficial effect, making the sound more relaxed, and the background apparently blacker.
Considering the difference between playing a CD normally versus from hard drive: I wonder how much this is due to vibration, contamination of power supply, or to jitter. And so which remedies should we apply to solve this problem: Vibration damping of Chassis and top of transport, power supply bypassing, or something else.
And yes, Coris, I saw your nice pictures of vibration isolation for the transport, but this is probably more elaborate than I want to explore.
Considering the difference between playing a CD normally versus from hard drive: I wonder how much this is due to vibration, contamination of power supply, or to jitter. And so which remedies should we apply to solve this problem: Vibration damping of Chassis and top of transport, power supply bypassing, or something else.
And yes, Coris, I saw your nice pictures of vibration isolation for the transport, but this is probably more elaborate than I want to explore.
Last edited:
I have too, noticed the same as many others, that there is a difference between playing a track from a CD, and the same file from a hard disk or memory stick. I have noticed a difference between USB playback and SATA interface (95) hard disk playback. Explaining those things or find the right one is not easy.
It seems to me that are many factors involved in such noticeable playback differences. The eventual undamped vibrations in the transport it may be only a part of those problems. In my opinion the most important it may be the jitter which may occur in the system, or the right synchronization of the data streams and the clocks involved.
Those (streaming) data processes it happen mainly in the player processor. There is there where the jitter correction occur, and/or the clock synchronizing with datas it happen too. The less errors to be corrected for the data streams in the main processor, the less jitter in the digital signal path, the smoother the process become and the less processor working time is needed. This it seem to be well hearable in the audio outputted sound.
I may say that in my moded 95 player this difference between transport played CD and hard disk played files is gone now. Why? There is a much better power system, there is a much better clock system, there is a better mechanical damping, and so on. All those things leads to a better digital/analogue signals all over in the player systems, and better working of the involved devices.
Is just amazing how much important it may be every single small detail in all those processes involved in treatment of datas, to have a good resulted audio sound out of the playing system. Even more amazing (if I can say so) is how sensitive the human hearing and the human processing of sounds it is, to make possible such detections of so "nano/pico" alterations in the resulting sounds, through a reproduction digital processing system(s).
It were more easy with the analogue devices, isn't it?
It seems to me that are many factors involved in such noticeable playback differences. The eventual undamped vibrations in the transport it may be only a part of those problems. In my opinion the most important it may be the jitter which may occur in the system, or the right synchronization of the data streams and the clocks involved.
Those (streaming) data processes it happen mainly in the player processor. There is there where the jitter correction occur, and/or the clock synchronizing with datas it happen too. The less errors to be corrected for the data streams in the main processor, the less jitter in the digital signal path, the smoother the process become and the less processor working time is needed. This it seem to be well hearable in the audio outputted sound.
I may say that in my moded 95 player this difference between transport played CD and hard disk played files is gone now. Why? There is a much better power system, there is a much better clock system, there is a better mechanical damping, and so on. All those things leads to a better digital/analogue signals all over in the player systems, and better working of the involved devices.
Is just amazing how much important it may be every single small detail in all those processes involved in treatment of datas, to have a good resulted audio sound out of the playing system. Even more amazing (if I can say so) is how sensitive the human hearing and the human processing of sounds it is, to make possible such detections of so "nano/pico" alterations in the resulting sounds, through a reproduction digital processing system(s).
It were more easy with the analogue devices, isn't it?
Last edited:
Jitter is noise, anything that lowers the noise floor that finds it way through to the DA conversion is a potentially audible improvement. That is my understanding.
Hey Joe! (I do not refer to Jimi Hendrix song...)
Have you listened the 105 (as it is) with new/last firmware? I mean DSD files playback capability. Still you have a non modified player?
I'm still testing and play a non modified device, and I am just very, very impressed about how it sounds DSD files played on it. I forgot about its AC coupling on outputs...
Seriously it sounds exceptional. Wondering about your impressions, if you had the chance to test it so...
Have you listened the 105 (as it is) with new/last firmware? I mean DSD files playback capability. Still you have a non modified player?
I'm still testing and play a non modified device, and I am just very, very impressed about how it sounds DSD files played on it. I forgot about its AC coupling on outputs...
Seriously it sounds exceptional. Wondering about your impressions, if you had the chance to test it so...
Note yet. Will try for sure!
I have done a full player, what I call Level 2 - when I get 54MHz SAWs, I can do it as Level 3.
I wonder if somebody is going to object to this, but since you asked, here goes:
Anthony Camplone, who post videos about vinyl on YouTube, had an Oppo 105 and knew what it sounded standard before he sent it to me. When it was returned I received the following sets of emails:
Hi Joe,
I unfortunately went away on the weekend but I kept the Oppo on repeat while I was
away. I got home Sunday afternoon and I was ready for a serious listening session.
What I heard coming from that player I was not expecting. The first thing I noticed
was the amount of detail and texture coming from the bass. As a bass player, this is
what I listen to first in music.
Also I noticed the rhythm and timing was vastly improved compared to the Droplet.
I was sitting there stunned. It just sounded so organic, so natural. Just like my Kuzma
turntable. And this is all from CD replay. CDs that sounded forward and thin, had body
and presence. Sitting there last night playing CD after CD and getting goose bumps.
Thank you very much for such an outstanding upgrade.
I'm scared where level 3 will take it.
Anthony Camplone
Then a little further on:
Hi Joe,
You are more than welcome to use my words and name on your site. I have also talked
up your upgrade on a forum for the 105.
OPPO BDP-103 and BDP-105 Networking Universal 3D Blu-ray Players (part2) | Page 9 | Steve Hoffman Music Forums
Let's just say that since Friday 15 records have turned up and none have been played.
The Kuzma Stabi Reference is on holiday!
Last night i was playing CDs trying to see if i could trip it up. No luck. Every disc just
sounded incredible. I might even say that i think the level 2 105 sounds better than
the Audio Aero Capitole i used to own.
Thanks so much for your time, communication and knowledge. You have created a
wonderful player out of something so humble.
Regards,
Anthony Camplone
And:
Hi Joe,
I just want to let you know that I've only played 2 records all week. 2 records. That's it.
It's been CD constantly. What have you done to me?
This CD/SACD player is magic. I'm rediscovering my collection again. It sounds wonderful.
I can't thank you enough.
Anthony Camplone
I love that last one, he almost feels GUILTY listening to digital.
Hopefully nobody is getting their noses out of joint... and quite frankly, my clients are rarely from the DIY fraternity, and also the above proves there is a HUGE gulf between the standard Oppo 105 as it comes out of the factory, and it TRUE potential.
What I have done is my version of that, and I am quite sure there are others out there, who can make the Oppo 105 into outstanding versions of this machine.
And finally, thanks Oppo - you have no criticism from me. I understand exactly why and what you have done.
Cheers, Joe
PS: Note the reference to the great bass? Get into SAW oscillators !!!
.
.
Last edited:
Well, I start my work on Oppo 105. Quite late indeed...
In this post I will be very critical to the mechanical solution Oppo developers have chosen to damp the transport in the chassis of both player models (95, 105).
I think this way is a kind of standard for other players models and theirs transport mounted in the chassis. In my opinion this is the wrong way to be done.
As one can see in the pictures here, the transport is originally mounted on a plate which is pressed on four very powerful springs, by the screws. Is quite hard for me to understand how they thought they who found out a such "damping" method. Where is actually the damping here?
The springs press very hard (it may be a kgF range on all 4 springs) on the the screw which is in a rigid connection with the chassis. What is the difference between screwed down the plate with/without those powerful springs? NONE, is my answer.
The transport is no more heavy than 200 gr or so. The springs all together make use of a force of 5 or more times heaviness of the transport device, to "damp" it... It may be something very wrong here!
To really dump that transport, one have to prevent the hard/rigid contact with the chassis. The transport it may "float" in one way in its place to have a very effective damping of the vibrations (lower and high frequencies too). Only the transformer in this chassis it may induce 50 hz vibrations to the optical system in this transport. The errors generated by those vibrations have to be corrected... This task/work it use much of the processing time, filtering and digital corrections, and at last it may alter enough the resulting sound. But of course is not only about those 50Hz vibrations. It is here about a complex of vibrations which have to be prevented to disturb the optical head in reading the infos, and avoiding the processor further work to get rid of the errors.
I think I get the way the designers here thought about that: there is not so important how the dumping it may be or if it is not so accurate, when the electronics do the necessary corrections on the way... Is cheaper to electronically correct the errors, than design and produce in the right way the mechanical system... In my opinion this way of thinking is only wrong. Processing to much the digital signals induce alterations which are audible at the output. Or if not audible, it lower quite much the resulted sound fidelity, and this it may be audible too...
For sure the Oppo`s engineers have to find the right way to effective dump this transport mounted in the chassis of those players, but not with those heavy springs mounted in the way they are. One may not only copy this mechanical system from another manufacturers of cheap products...
As one can also see in the pictures here, I used some silicon pieces which by chance fits in the task of this case. I do not like very much this solution, because the silicon pieces are not exactly right designed for this purpose. But anyway, this way to dump the transport and isolate it from vibrations is much more effective than the original one.
In this post I will be very critical to the mechanical solution Oppo developers have chosen to damp the transport in the chassis of both player models (95, 105).
I think this way is a kind of standard for other players models and theirs transport mounted in the chassis. In my opinion this is the wrong way to be done.
As one can see in the pictures here, the transport is originally mounted on a plate which is pressed on four very powerful springs, by the screws. Is quite hard for me to understand how they thought they who found out a such "damping" method. Where is actually the damping here?
The springs press very hard (it may be a kgF range on all 4 springs) on the the screw which is in a rigid connection with the chassis. What is the difference between screwed down the plate with/without those powerful springs? NONE, is my answer.
The transport is no more heavy than 200 gr or so. The springs all together make use of a force of 5 or more times heaviness of the transport device, to "damp" it... It may be something very wrong here!
To really dump that transport, one have to prevent the hard/rigid contact with the chassis. The transport it may "float" in one way in its place to have a very effective damping of the vibrations (lower and high frequencies too). Only the transformer in this chassis it may induce 50 hz vibrations to the optical system in this transport. The errors generated by those vibrations have to be corrected... This task/work it use much of the processing time, filtering and digital corrections, and at last it may alter enough the resulting sound. But of course is not only about those 50Hz vibrations. It is here about a complex of vibrations which have to be prevented to disturb the optical head in reading the infos, and avoiding the processor further work to get rid of the errors.
I think I get the way the designers here thought about that: there is not so important how the dumping it may be or if it is not so accurate, when the electronics do the necessary corrections on the way... Is cheaper to electronically correct the errors, than design and produce in the right way the mechanical system... In my opinion this way of thinking is only wrong. Processing to much the digital signals induce alterations which are audible at the output. Or if not audible, it lower quite much the resulted sound fidelity, and this it may be audible too...
For sure the Oppo`s engineers have to find the right way to effective dump this transport mounted in the chassis of those players, but not with those heavy springs mounted in the way they are. One may not only copy this mechanical system from another manufacturers of cheap products...
As one can also see in the pictures here, I used some silicon pieces which by chance fits in the task of this case. I do not like very much this solution, because the silicon pieces are not exactly right designed for this purpose. But anyway, this way to dump the transport and isolate it from vibrations is much more effective than the original one.
Attachments
Last edited:
Nicely done and very good pictures.
BTW, my BDP-105 bit the dust last Saturday morning after about 35 days of use. Turns on, gets the WELCOME display, gets the OPPO display, but never gets to the HOME display. After several emails with tech support over the weekend, I am sending it back today for an exchange. Fortunately, I waited before doing any mods.
BTW, my BDP-105 bit the dust last Saturday morning after about 35 days of use. Turns on, gets the WELCOME display, gets the OPPO display, but never gets to the HOME display. After several emails with tech support over the weekend, I am sending it back today for an exchange.
Fortunately, I waited before doing any mods.
Have you got a multi-zone fitted? If yes, try to disable it. There are two versions, the standard which has a single plug into digital mainboard, and the more deluxe version (which is more likely to play up) that is a lot harder to disable.
As long as it gets sorted. But it is good to keep in mind, and if the player HAD been worked on could have been important (player itself not the problem), that some multi-zones can go funny and interfere with the startup of the player, in the manner you describe. We have seen this a number of times and the local importer who I know well, is well aware of it.
Cheers, Joe
Last edited:
Non-invasive region free mod
For those who want a region free player, but who do not want to open the player, thereby voiding warrantees, there is a solution that plugs into the RS-232 port.
The Danish Oppo importer is using this solution and seems to be happy with it.
See link: JVB Digital, Codefree OPPO BDP-105 External kit DVD modification kit
The supplier seems to be shipping to both the USA and Europe.
Please note that I haven't tried this myself (yet), as I am waiting for Joe and his Swiss colleagues to be able to supply a level 3 modded Oppo BDP-105, which is being held up waiting for the special SAW clock generators to arrive
Cheers,
Jens
For those who want a region free player, but who do not want to open the player, thereby voiding warrantees, there is a solution that plugs into the RS-232 port.
The Danish Oppo importer is using this solution and seems to be happy with it.
See link: JVB Digital, Codefree OPPO BDP-105 External kit DVD modification kit
The supplier seems to be shipping to both the USA and Europe.
Please note that I haven't tried this myself (yet), as I am waiting for Joe and his Swiss colleagues to be able to supply a level 3 modded Oppo BDP-105, which is being held up waiting for the special SAW clock generators to arrive
Cheers,
Jens
Please note that I haven't tried this myself (yet), as I am waiting for Joe and his Swiss colleagues to be able to supply a level 3 modded Oppo BDP-105, which is being held up waiting for the special SAW clock generators to arrive
Cheers, Jens
Hi Jens
Yes, the external version works well, and is less likely to create startup problems than the 'deluxe' version. But the external one needs power that is drawn from a USB port on the back of the Oppo, so you loose that USB. There is a work-around, and that is NOT use power from USB, but get a small +5V plug-pack instead, free up the USB. (The USB Pin 1 is +5V, fpr yjose who want to know)
Re the SAW - they are being custom made and I got an email that they are due on this 26th - before on-sending them to me, probably early May. So we are getting closer
Something like this (there are lots available):
https://www.sparkfun.com/products/11456
Cheers, Joe
Last edited:
Hi Joe,
Yes, those babies use a USB port for power. However, since the BDP-105 has two USBs on the rear and one on the front, most 105 users would probably not need an external power supply
Good news on the SAWs!
Cheers,
Jens
Hi Joe,
Yes, those babies use a USB port for power. However, since the BDP-105 has two USBs on the rear and one on the front, most 105 users would probably not need an external power supply
Good news on the SAWs!
Cheers,
Jens
Now I can answer to your question...
It were many discussions about those caps on the outputs of the 105 model (AC coupling). I stated from the beginning that AC coupling is a bad idea. And I further sustain this statement. Now I have the proofs and confirmation!
I have BDP105 since long time now (the first lot which it came to Europe), but unfortunately I had not the necessary time and good enough conditions to get into this player in details. I used the mean time to listen it as it were out of the box. And compare it with my modded 95...
In the last time I just proceed it to modify my 105 systematically and in very details. This task is quite demanding and it take some of my time.
I started with the mechanical stage, and some results I have presented here. Done!
Then I proceed it with the entire power system, which is also done now. I have changed too, the original 27Mhz resonator for the main processor. Fortunately it is about only one clock for this processor now. I did not have a very special oscillator and I have used a standard one (50ppm and reasonable figures for jitter/phase noise). I have to say that only the simple fact to remove the original resonator and providing clock from an oscillator (no any special power supply yet for this oscillator, but powered from 3,3v somewhere in the player) it improved significantly both the picture and the sound. Note that I did not touched yet the DAC stage and its analogue circuits...
I have replaced the original AC coupling caps (quite a shame of components...) with 10 time bigger capacity unpolarized caps, paralleled with 100n film. Well, it were enough good sound after this mod... Still not touch it the DAC stage, and its clock system...
Now come the big surprise... At last for me
I have (at last) shorted the the AC coupling. I have a priori measured the output offset and it were in my player 3,2mV and 4,8mV for both stereo channels. Quite safe and good enough.
I have only to say that the result of such shorting the AC coupling caps, it was like open the window to get both the sunny light and fresh air... in the sound out of my player. Suddenly big increase in the dynamics, more open sound, more presence for all the instruments, more "airy" in the sound stage. Very nice and pleasant sound. A very big surprise and a nice confirmation that this AC coupling is only bad and damp significant the sound. I just feel sorry for those quite many customers/owners of this player and so many reviewers who praises the sound of this machine as it is out of the box, or they are only glad with what they get from Oppo...
I can now only imagine how it may be when I will get into the DAC system, and another analogue circuits to correct what it is to be corrected there... I just wander and I`m excited about how it may be with a SAW oscillator in place for the processor, and so on... Quite many mods are waiting yet for get into this player. Thanks Oppo for getting out on the marked a such huge potential machine, for a good starting price...
Now I`m not very sure if the improvement of eliminating the AC coupling it may be so obviously for everyone, if no other hardware improvements will be in place apriori this DC coupling mod. But I strongly recommend to all of the 105 owners to short this AC coupling and eliminate it from the signal path. Please measure first the offset on the channels, and assure your amplifier accept DC coupling. And do not forget to remove too the 47Kohm resistor which is (wrong) placed between signal path and GND just before RCA outputs.
Sorry for not to come with more details about another necessary mods for this Oppo model, but so is the life and the business...
Last edited:
I have made some measurements of some stages in this 105 model. Unfortunately I have lost the screen shots from my scope, so I can not show it now those. I can of course remake it the measurements, but is too much work...
I have measured AVDD (5V). It were no any mod yet on this stage, so it were "genuine"... I found that this AVDD is in fact 6V and it have a ripple of 170mV. It may not be very wrong that one get 6V here and not 5V, because this raw tension is regulated further, but the high ripple I think is not very fortunate. I corrected this and it have now 60mV ripple...
The constant level residual HF noise from the ESS9018 one can find on RCA outputs is 32mVpp for the specified signal output level of 2V.
Without AC coupling the useful signal value get up to 2,5V (max 5Vpp). With my mod in place, I can get a residual HF noise of approx 3mVpp for an useful signal of max 5Vpp.
I have "played" back an 80khz sine wav file (192Khz sampling) in usual way. This it goes through all player system just fine and undistorted! I should try it more than this, but I couldn't create a such file with my present means... It shouldn't work anyway to go much higher because the limit of the sampling frequency. I will come back to this experiment and I will publish a screenshot of this "playback".
I have measured AVDD (5V). It were no any mod yet on this stage, so it were "genuine"... I found that this AVDD is in fact 6V and it have a ripple of 170mV. It may not be very wrong that one get 6V here and not 5V, because this raw tension is regulated further, but the high ripple I think is not very fortunate. I corrected this and it have now 60mV ripple...
The constant level residual HF noise from the ESS9018 one can find on RCA outputs is 32mVpp for the specified signal output level of 2V.
Without AC coupling the useful signal value get up to 2,5V (max 5Vpp). With my mod in place, I can get a residual HF noise of approx 3mVpp for an useful signal of max 5Vpp.
I have "played" back an 80khz sine wav file (192Khz sampling) in usual way. This it goes through all player system just fine and undistorted! I should try it more than this, but I couldn't create a such file with my present means... It shouldn't work anyway to go much higher because the limit of the sampling frequency. I will come back to this experiment and I will publish a screenshot of this "playback".
Last edited: